What do we get for 1.7B from the EU

[Alastair]

I believe we need to stay In the EU but itneeds major reform. Examples are, throw out financially unstable countries, stop its current expansion program, ban free movement of criminals, make each state pay for its nationals benefits (we pat benefits at UK rate to Romanians yet we don't get free health cover in all EU countries).

There's more support within Europe for reform than most people in the UK realise.

Although the UK may have to accept that it can't win both sides of an argument on some things - it's difficult to object to taxation arrangements in Luxembourg and the Netherlands whilst simultaneously arguing that the EU shouldn't interfere with national taxation policies.

Within the UK public ignorance of foreign affairs within Europe and the wider world is becoming endemic - unless there's a UK national in the casualty lists we don't care what happened and it will be a passing mention in the ticker of news. Newspapers and the BBC have become increasingly insular, placing greater emphasis on celebrity gossip than international affairs, reporting at face value statements from political figures and ignoring investigative journalism. I'm in a position where I can compare the evening news on UK channels and those of Germany - the UK news (BBC, ITN, Sky, Channel 4) is far less international in scope and at the same time also manages to provide less regional coverage as well. It's similar with the newspapers - regional German daily newspapers have better coverage of foreign stories than the UK national papers.

 

[the black fox]

i honestly think that the characters played by david walliams and co. in little britain are what really goes on behind the closed doors of parliament and in fact they would probably make a better job of running this country .even the monster raving loony party would do a better job than the present bunch of w******s

 

[Peter69]

Within the UK public ignorance of foreign affairs within Europe and the wider world is becoming endemic - unless there's a UK national in the casualty lists we don't care what happened and it will be a passing mention in the ticker of news.

OH NO!!, we're turning into American Republicans

What you say is so true, where XFactor gets more air time then global disasters, & Remembrance Sunday is opened to Commercial exploitation (how many TV progs treated it with the respect it deserves, X Factor, Strictly come dancing). I fear we are being electronically sedated!

 

[simon ess]

I fear we are being electronically sedated!

The modern equivalent of bread and circuses.

Add in fear of the Carthaginians, Celts, Germans, Parthians.....

....The Spanish, French, Germans, Commies, Islamic fundamentalists......

And we are all dumb enough to fall for it to some extent most of the time.

 

[mid_gen]

Germany and skint? Hilarious!

So true. I'm living in Germany, the easy prosperity and affluence enjoyed here is striking compared to the empty high streets and grim state of the UK. Not to mention the endless swathes of active, *real* industry.

There is a clock on the town hall. It's counting up the days since the city became debt free.

 

[Peter69]

So true. I'm living in Germany, the easy prosperity and affluence enjoyed here is striking compared to the empty high streets and grim state of the UK. Not to mention the endless swathes of active, *real* industry.

There is a clock on the town hall. It's counting up the days since the city became debt free.

Germany, a completely different mind-set to the UK. Our government has tightened its belt restricting cash flow. Some say it works because of the growth' shown.
I say its just luck, we would probably be in growth with no action.
The latest information I have is, that a nation, we are financially in a better place then Germany. The difference is the spread of financial well being.
Remember every tax cut that save you 20p saves me 50p (if only my tax was so easy to work out )!!

 

[Yves Geza]

Yes, that is possibly a reason, though not as important IMO as the small (realtively) number of people who are benefitting from the economic "growth". I would also like to see this economic growth explained, and see the areas where we do well - arms sales (to despicable regimes), financial packages, property sales to foreign buyers/investors.

Well you have to understand is, to paraphrase St Matthew's Gospel, whatever we do the rich will always be with us! And I'm still old fashioned and naive enough to be quite relaxed about them. I'm still more interested in how rich the poorest are!

I personally think that the current situation in Ukraine (tempting them to become part of the EU) is an absolute disaster, and will cost the WHOLE of the EU (including us, who were among the cheerleaders, along with the US) dear, because Ukraine will turn out to be a bottomless pit which gobbles up EU funds.
We then have the bail out of countries like Greece, who historically are extremely corrupt and lack any real kind of beaurocracy, thereby allowing large swathes of the population to avoid paying taxes. The same applies to a lesser degree with Spain, Portugal and Italy.
I agree with others who say the EU should become more streamlined, have greater transparency, more accountability, and most importantly every country should be using exactly the same methods to calculate the following - economic growth/stagnation/recession, immigration, unemployment (including all relevant data for students/training, economically inactive, welfare recipients, NMW - should be made compulsory IMO).
One of the things which I would like to see introduced, are standard benefits across the whole of the EU, and make that a condition of countries wishing to join the EU.

I agree! The contrived expansion of the EU over the past twenty years is what has caused so many of its problems. So the EU's solution? Attempt more contrived expansion!

You do realise that many billions have been invested in this country purely because we are in the eu? The Japanese car manufacturers for one. Listen to the investors - the leaders of the multinationals - they know it would be a bad idea to leave the eu.

Like Ford moving production from Bridgend [IIRC] to Turkey? @nilagin will probably have an opinion about that but it suggests to me that there are other, greater reasons for inward investment into the UK.

Apart from admin costs, has anyone yet come up with the answer to the question, what do we actually get for our 1.7 bill/850 mill?

 

[LASTOLITE]

To me there is only one fact. British revenue isn't staying in Britain and you can be sure as hell we are a net EU contributor. The original idea of free trade was a great one, but why does free trade need a bureaucratic government of its own?

Jobs for the boys......

 

[Deleted member 49549]

Well you have to understand is, to paraphrase St Matthew's Gospel, whatever we do the rich will always be with us! And I'm still old fashioned and naive enough to be quite relaxed about them. I'm still more interested in how rich the poorest are!



I agree! The contrived expansion of the EU over the past twenty years is what has caused so many of its problems. So the EU's solution? Attempt more contrived expansion!




Like Ford moving production from Bridgend [IIRC] to Turkey? @nilagin will probably have an opinion about that but it suggests to me that there are other, greater reasons for inward investment into the UK.

Apart from admin costs, has anyone yet come up with the answer to the question, what do we actually get for our 1.7 bill/850 mill?

Some more info about Japanese investment in UK:-

http://www.uk.emb-japan.go.jp/en/japanUK/governmental/130711_UKEU.html

The UK, as a champion of free trade, is a reliable partner for Japan. More than 1,300 Japanese companies have invested in the UK, as part of the Single Market of the EU, and have created 130,000 jobs, more than anywhere else in Europe. This fact demonstrates that the advantage of the UK as a gateway to the European market has attracted Japanese investment. The Government of Japan expects the UK to maintain this favourable role.

If that isn't black and white then I don't know what is.

Another document:-

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ent_data/file/220966/foi_eumembership_fdi.pdf

Summary:-
The UK has seen substantial growth in both inward and outward FDI
since accession to the EU, although determining how far the EU was
responsible for this is complicated by other factors – in particular the
global surge in FDI at the same time. However, the stylised facts
support the theory that membership of the EU is a key factor in
attracting investment to the UK, and demonstrates the importance of
this investment for the UK.
EU membership has contributed to FDI growth in the UK by reducing
access costs to a larger market, enabling greater economies of scale
and returns on investment, increasing competition and facilitating
agglomeration.
The UK has been a major beneficiary of FDI flows in the EU, but
integration has also enabled growth in outward FDI to EU countries, and
increasing returns on this investment.
Important potential future FDI gains are possible from further
integration, particularly following successful liberalisation of services
industries. The long-term FDI cost of withdrawal would be significant.

It would be economic suicide to leave the EU. And to bastardise a quote, the problem with economic suicide is you live to regret the consequences.

 

[cambsno]

It would be economic suicide to leave the EU. And to bastardise a quote, the problem with economic suicide is you live to regret the consequences.

Surely it depends on what terms are agreed after?

IF we did leave the EU what would that mean? We would still trade with the EU as its probably only North Korea and the odd dictator that has trade embargoes! What is it about staying in the EU that is important to Japan for example... it isn't the Euro as we are not in it, it can't be to do with immigration, law, or defence... So what is it as I really don't know? I assume trade but how does our trade with the EU now differ to Norway who are not in, or countries like the USA or Australia?

 

[Ricardodaforce]

Surely it depends on what terms are agreed after?

IF we did leave the EU what would that mean? We would still trade with the EU as its probably only North Korea and the odd dictator that has trade embargoes! What is it about staying in the EU that is important to Japan for example... it isn't the Euro as we are not in it, it can't be to do with immigration, law, or defence... So what is it as I really don't know? I assume trade but how does our trade with the EU now differ to Norway who are not in, or countries like the USA or Australia?

You will never receive an answer which persuades you. Simply because you just don't like being associated with foreigners. That's obvious to anyone that has read your posts here. I'd certainly respect you more if you were man enough to admit you are xenophobic.

 

[SFTPhotography]

You will never receive an answer which persuades you. Simply because you just don't like being associated with foreigners. That's obvious to anyone that has read your posts here. I'd certainly respect you more if you were man enough to admit you are xenophobic.

I think that's uncalled for. Wanting the best for your country and your fellow countrymen isn't xenophobic.

I am confident due to how much EU goods we import that we'd be able to trade with Europe freely (which was the idea of the EEC) but as it's morphed into some sort of super state dictatorial beaurcracy we are best off out. Norway and Switzerland seem to be doing just fine without the firm hand of Brussels.

Plus the expansion east and free movement of people will be a flow of our money in their direction vas a flow their people in our direction.

Given the number of UK born unemployed people and the precarious fiscal situation our own country is in do we really want to be dragged down from where we are?

 

[Alastair]

The difference is that the EU migrants coming into the country are moving to the areas where work is available, whereas a large proportion of the UK unemployed are unemployed in areas where there are few jobs available.

But the migrants are also taking on some very poor jobs - zero hours contracts where you turn up at the factory gates at 6am to see if you have work that day. If you don't, you go home unpaid.

 

[Deleted member 49549]

No matter how many times it is shown that 'Johnny foreigner' is a net contributor to our country, people just don't seem to be able to accept that fact....
I can just picture those closet racists who repeatedly post economic arguments, sticking their fingers in their ears and singing tralalalaa whenever unambiguous facts countering their ridiculous position are presented.

 

[cambsno]

No matter how many times it is shown that 'Johnny foreigner' is a net contributor to our country, people just don't seem to be able to accept that fact....
I can just picture those closet racists who repeatedly post economic arguments, sticking their fingers in their ears and singing tralalalaa whenever unambiguous facts countering their ridiculous position are presented.

Rather than call names maybe people could answer my question above? Why the thing about Johnny Foreigner and immigration? We had it pre EU and get it from non EU countries! Allowing movement of trade is entirely possible without being in the EU. Johnny Foreigner being a net contributor is irrelevant, I buy the point that what we spend in say benefits is outweighed by economic growth.

I guess if you are losing the argument just call everyone closet racists?

 

[Alastair]

I am confident due to how much EU goods we import that we'd be able to trade with Europe freely (which was the idea of the EEC) but as it's morphed into some sort of super state dictatorial beaurcracy we are best off out. Norway and Switzerland seem to be doing just fine without the firm hand of Brussels.

Just how limp is the "hand of Brussels" in Oslo and Bern? If Norway and Switzerland are being held up as the poster children of an alternative engagement with the EU then you have to consider that both countries still have to comply with the same EU regulations that full EU members have to comply with for trade within the common market, both still contribute to EU funds, neither has voting/veto rights on the EC or representation in the EP.

I'm doing quite a bit of compliance work with clients at the moment, and the ironic thing is that much of it is British product safety standards developed within the UK but ignored by UK business, since adopted by the EU as compulsory safety standards, so now we have the EU driving compliance with British safety standards within the UK.

 

[Deleted member 49549]

Rather than call names maybe people could answer my question above? Why the thing about Johnny Foreigner and immigration? We had it pre EU and get it from non EU countries! Allowing movement of trade is entirely possible without being in the EU. Johnny Foreigner being a net contributor is irrelevant, I buy the point that what we spend in say benefits is outweighed by economic growth.

I guess if you are losing the argument just call everyone closet racists?

OK, lets do this step by step - do you think that the japanese (that have invested billions in our economy in recent years) are wrong in their statement:-

The UK, as a champion of free trade, is a reliable partner for Japan. More than 1,300 Japanese companies have invested in the UK, as part of the Single Market of the EU, and have created 130,000 jobs, more than anywhere else in Europe. This fact demonstrates that the advantage of the UK as a gateway to the European market has attracted Japanese investment. The Government of Japan expects the UK to maintain this favourable role.

 

[SFTPhotography]

The difference is that the EU migrants coming into the country are moving to the areas where work is available, whereas a large proportion of the UK unemployed are unemployed in areas where there are few jobs available.

But the migrants are also taking on some very poor jobs - zero hours contracts where you turn up at the factory gates at 6am to see if you have work that day. If you don't, you go home unpaid.

Can't the British people move to areas where there's work or take on 0 hours contract jobs?

 

[nilagin]

Like Ford moving production from Bridgend [IIRC] to Turkey? @nilagin will probably have an opinion about that but it suggests to me that there are other, greater reasons for inward investment into the UK.

Ford pulling out the UK, if we leave the EU is my main worry. Everything that Ford produces in the UK is shipped abroad, gearboxes (Ford/Getrag) from Halewood, diesel engines from Dagenham and petrol engines from Bridgend. Will this incur higher shipping costs for Ford? I don't know. Last year I ceased to be a press toolmaker at Ford because they can get press tools built cheaper elsewhere. I'm fortunate that they offered me another job instead of taking voluntary redundancy and retrained me as a prototype mechanic at their research and development facility at Dunton, developing new engines. Although I work at Dunton, the area I work in still comes under the Dagenham Engine plant, so if the engine plant was to close, I have no idea what impact that will have on where I work as Ford also have engine development facilities in Germany, Turkey, and America. The only things we have in our favour are that Turkey isn't allowed to expand on the number of engine dyno cells it has at present and the engineers we work for would rather work in the UK than other countries.
Ford have yet to return to profitability in Europe, they originally envisaged by 2016, then it was looking like 2015, but now they have had to return to 2016.

Nissan have also said that they will have to rethink and possibly pull out of the UK if we pull out of the EU and I can see other car companies having to follow, purely on the fact that their UK sales aren't that good and what they will be producing will also be exported.

 

[SFTPhotography]

They won't pull out. The quality of the work done here is second to none.

 

[Deleted member 49549]

They won't pull out. The quality of the work done here is second to none.

I remember how well built montegos and maestros were...!

 

[Alastair]

Can't the British people move to areas where there's work or take on 0 hours contract jobs?

Apparently not..

There's a shortage of labour for the food industry in East Anglia - but it's all pretty sh*tty low-paid manual labour, yet they keep coming from Eastern Europe, accepting these jobs and making a go of a life from it. If there weren't immigrants coming into Norfolk the population here would be declining, it's only the new European families that are maintaining the birth rate and providing the labour to the agricultural and food sector. There is absolutely nothing stopping unemployed people in London, Liverpool or Newcastle coming down and taking these opportunities except their own inertia.

Until the Baltic immigrants arrived you couldn't get a decent cup of coffee in a cafe that wasn't part of a national chain, the local greasy spoons regarded a heap of Nescafe in a polystyrene cup as the height of taste and hot frothy milk as dangerously cosmopolitan. We've now got a vibrant town centre again with an average age significantly below pensionable, which wasn't the case ten years ago. You might hear slavic languages being spoken on the street, but almost all the immigrants that have arrived are fluent in at least three languages (including English) whereas as many locals are proud of their functional illiteracy. Latvian/Lithuanian students are beginning to significantly outperform their local peers at GCSE and A-level - almost entirely because of their work ethic. The rise of the "eastern European shop" has seen the number of local corner shops quadruple and challenge the dominance of the supermarkets, and this in turn is supporting traditional local shops as the butcher is no longer alone on the street but now has a corner shop nearby providing greengrocery as well.

You've got to have lived in an area for a number of years both before and after the new wave immigration to see just how much commercial and social life it has created.

The economy is still in the sh*t, people are still worse off than they were ten years ago.. but it's not immigration or the EU that's too blame. It's thirty years of putting the financial sector first (both major parties are to blame, it started with Thatcher and Blair continued it), then deciding it's too big to fail when it c*cks things up and having to spend billions propping up the bonuses of the 1% who then get sniffy about one family in a house that thirty years ago was a working class neighbourhood.

 

[nilagin]

They won't pull out. The quality of the work done here is second to none.

The quality of the press tools we built at Dagenham were pretty much second to none as well. We were very successful at getting press tools to produce panels that our German counterparts had no interest in as they felt they were too difficult to get right, yet they still decided to shut us down. Being in the EU is the only thing making us still cost effective. A few years ago in a wage deal it was agreed that all future employees taken on, would earn 10% less basic wage and a reduced pension, than the rest of us. There are about 4000 people where I work alone and I doubt if even 100 are on the lower wage, even less in other plants. That's a lot of people to replace to make sure we remain viable.

 

[SFTPhotography]

Apparently not..

There's a shortage of labour for the food industry in East Anglia - but it's all pretty sh*tty low-paid manual labour, yet they keep coming from Eastern Europe, accepting these jobs and making a go of a life from it. If there weren't immigrants coming into Norfolk the population here would be declining, it's only the new European families that are maintaining the birth rate and providing the labour to the agricultural and food sector. There is absolutely nothing stopping unemployed people in London, Liverpool or Newcastle coming down and taking these opportunities except their own inertia.

Until the Baltic immigrants arrived you couldn't get a decent cup of coffee in a cafe that wasn't part of a national chain, the local greasy spoons regarded a heap of Nescafe in a polystyrene cup as the height of taste and hot frothy milk as dangerously cosmopolitan. We've now got a vibrant town centre again with an average age significantly below pensionable, which wasn't the case ten years ago. You might hear slavic languages being spoken on the street, but almost all the immigrants that have arrived are fluent in at least three languages (including English) whereas as many locals are proud of their functional illiteracy. Latvian/Lithuanian students are beginning to significantly outperform their local peers at GCSE and A-level - almost entirely because of their work ethic. The rise of the "eastern European shop" has seen the number of local corner shops quadruple and challenge the dominance of the supermarkets, and this in turn is supporting traditional local shops as the butcher is no longer alone on the street but now has a corner shop nearby providing greengrocery as well.

You've got to have lived in an area for a number of years both before and after the new wave immigration to see just how much commercial and social life it has created.

The economy is still in the sh*t, people are still worse off than they were ten years ago.. but it's not immigration or the EU that's too blame. It's thirty years of putting the financial sector first (both major parties are to blame, it started with Thatcher and Blair continued it), then deciding it's too big to fail when it c*cks things up and having to spend billions propping up the bonuses of the 1% who then get sniffy about one family in a house that thirty years ago was a working class neighbourhood.

Interia due to our something for nothing benefits culture.

British people could be doing these jobs. We don't need a something for nothing benefits culture that we have and should be encouraging out own jobless to get stuck in and try something new.

 

[Yves Geza]

Rather than call names maybe people could answer my question above? Why the thing about Johnny Foreigner and immigration? We had it pre EU and get it from non EU countries! Allowing movement of trade is entirely possible without being in the EU. Johnny Foreigner being a net contributor is irrelevant, I buy the point that what we spend in say benefits is outweighed by economic growth.

I guess if you are losing the argument just call everyone closet racists?

You're a waycist! I must be a waycist too! That's obvious!

I've been fascinated by the rise of UKIP, who as I suggested in OOF many months ago are arguably the wrong people but who are asking the right questions! And I've been even more fascinated by the blinkered, narrow minded reaction against them from the political classes and the mainstream media and also from youngish, left-leaning comedians and all sorts of media whores and all sorts of internet posters.

Every time honest questions are dismissed as waycism or xenophobia, it must gain UKIP 1000 votes from other straightforward, working joes who don't feel waycist, who don't despise their differently cultured colleagues, but who don't appreciate being told what they are or are not allowed to think! Especially what they're allowed to think about their own situation and surroundings!

The politicos are largely wising up to this, in public at least, but lots of comedians and commentators aren't; - they're so happy pandering to their immediate audience, they can't see that they're as far behind the times with their insults and targets as the old-fashioned sexist, racist, dinner-jacketed comedians from the 1970s they despise!

As a small example:-

No matter how many times it is shown that 'Johnny foreigner' is a net contributor to our country, people just don't seem to be able to accept that fact....
I can just picture those closet racists who repeatedly post economic arguments, sticking their fingers in their ears and singing tralalalaa whenever unambiguous facts countering their ridiculous position are presented.

But you've only presented selective studies that show that some "Johnny Foreigners" are nett contributors in some circumstances. No one seems willing to answer the macro-economic question of our whole EU membership.

S It would be economic suicide to leave the EU. And to bastardise a quote, the problem with economic suicide is you live to regret the consequences.

Would it? Or would it pull the whole house of cards down behind us and create a complete remodelling of Europe, which would quite possibly be to the economic benefit of all without the destructive one-size fits all federal project? The Europe to which you wish to saddle us is a large market but, by and large, economically moribund.

Then again I have to observe -

You will never receive an answer which persuades you. Simply because you just don't like being associated with foreigners. That's obvious to anyone that has read your posts here. I'd certainly respect you more if you were man enough to admit you are xenophobic.

And I have to reply that you're definitely a bigot yourself! In fact I suspect you're a real racist!

In this otherwise unrelated thread, you have chosen once again deliberately to misquote UN Resolution 242! I might have some respect for you if you could at least acknowledge that 242, as repeatedly cited by you, has two paragraphs and puts obligations and conditions on the other side of the Middle East dispute that you choose to ignore. But the truth doesn't seem to suit your agenda!

Ford pulling out the UK, if we leave the EU is my main worry. ...
Ford have yet to return to profitability in Europe, they originally envisaged by 2016, then it was looking like 2015, but now they have had to return to 2016.

Nissan have also said that they will have to rethink and possibly pull out of the UK if we pull out of the EU and I can see other car companies having to follow, purely on the fact that their UK sales aren't that good and what they will be producing will also be exported.

Then you can relax. The UK car market is performing rather better than the rest of Europe where all big-ticket sales are a disaster, particularly in the Eurozone.

As for citing Nissan as proof of anything, they're the boys who previously announced they would definitely quit the UK if we didn't join the Euro! That's Carlos Ghosn and his team for you. A publicity exercise whose management nearly destroyed Nissan in the late 1990s but who still live off their temporary success of the early 1990s. Big businesses are driven by short-term share price and they're the ones who are most frightened by any change and anything foreign or different or better!

 

[Deleted member 49549]

......

But you've only presented selective studies that show that some "Johnny Foreigners" are nett contributors in some circumstances. No one seems willing to answer the macro-economic question of our whole EU membership.

.....

From the study:-

....we consider the total population of immigrants who resided in the UK in each year between 1995 and 2011, distinguishing between immigrants from countries that are not part of the European Economic Area (EEA) and immigrants from EEA countries, and then compute their net fiscal contribution in each of these years. ....

Seems like a very general study to me, in no way using a specific sample to produce a bias. How is this a 'selective study'?

 

[viv1969]

IMHO...Here's the real answer to the question. ..

For 1.7bill Euros you get f*** all.
And unless you're willing to stand up, be counted and run for a position in which you might possibly be able to influence change, then whining about it will achieve f*** all.

Expressing your mockrage may make you feel better for a short time but the only thing it will serve to do is annoy others.

It's a moment of clarity, if you will.

And now back to your regularly scheduled programming.......

 

[cambsno]

OK, lets do this step by step - do you think that the japanese (that have invested billions in our economy in recent years) are wrong in their statement:-

Don't know, could be empty rhetoric like cameron... but I want to know the reason behind it - why is it so important for us to be in the EU from their perspective. If we pulled out tomorrow how would it affect their business, would it put up costs etc...

 

[cambsno]

I remember how well built montegos and maestros were...!

What about the mighty Allegro?

 

[Deleted member 49549]

Don't know, could be empty rhetoric like cameron... but I want to know the reason behind it - why is it so important for us to be in the EU from their perspective. If we pulled out tomorrow how would it affect their business, would it put up costs etc...

Currently cars manufactured in the uk can be sold within the EU with no export duty. That's the largest single market in the world.

If we withdrew from Europe, the likelihood will be that any exports from Britain will attract an import duty, approx 10 to 20%. That will mean massive extra costs to the manufacturers. It is possible that a deal could be struck to lessen these duties, but that will only be a temporary measure that could be withdrawn at any moment, not what a business will want.

 

[cambsno]

Currently cars manufactured in the uk can be sold within the EU with no export duty. That's the largest single market in the world.

If we withdrew from Europe, the likelihood will be that any exports from Britain will attract an import duty, approx 10 to 20%. That will mean massive extra costs to the manufacturers. It is possible that a deal could be struck to lessen these duties, but that will only be a temporary measure that could be withdrawn at any moment, not what a business will want.

Ok, fair answer... guess the Germans and French would not be keen though if we did the same thing and stuck a duty in Renault & BMW though? Free trade though could and should be something that all countries should do - it should not be something you need to pay billions for.

I am not naive to think that there would not be some things we lose out on, but would the gains outweigh that?

 

[Deleted member 49549]

Ok, fair answer... guess the Germans and French would not be keen though if we did the same thing and stuck a duty in Renault & BMW though? Free trade though could and should be something that all countries should do - it should not be something you need to pay billions for.

I am not naive to think that there would not be some things we lose out on, but would the gains outweigh that?

They would lose access to a market of 60 million, we would lose access to a market of 500 million...

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Ok, fair answer... guess the Germans and French would not be keen though if we did the same thing and stuck a duty in Renault & BMW though? Free trade though could and should be something that all countries should do - it should not be something you need to pay billions for.

I am not naive to think that there would not be some things we lose out on, but would the gains outweigh that?

Don't you worry. You would simply pay more for your next BMW or Renault. They know that. There aren't many UK made cars to choose from if japanese and BMW leave.

 

[cambsno]

They would lose access to a market of 60 million, we would lose access to a market of 500 million...

I would like to think that politicians would be more mature than slapping levies or duty on each other. It is good for EU countries and for us to have open trade, although I don't see why the club need billions spent on it to do so. A simple trading agreement between countries would work. Why Do we need so much integration just to trade?

 

[cambsno]

Taking it off topic, why are Israel not in the EU, seeing as they are in Eurovision and the Euro qualifiers?

 

[Alastair]

Taking it off topic, why are Israel not in the EU, seeing as they are in Eurovision and the Euro qualifiers?

They're an Associated State..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–European_Union_relations
http://eeas.europa.eu/israel/index_en.htm

 

[Yv]

I would like to think that politicians would be more mature than slapping levies or duty on each other. It is good for EU countries and for us to have open trade, although I don't see why the club need billions spent on it to do so. A simple trading agreement between countries would work. Why Do we need so much integration just to trade?

Wasn't that where this all started...