What do we get for 1.7B from the EU

ST4 said:
Why then is the EU so keen to keep us and people from all over the works try immigrate here?

Our military capability is world class
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Merkel is no longer keen. She is happy to let you lot go away :)

Military? Yeah, I suppose but UK still has no chance in case of full scale Russian attack. Only US and China have comparable military capability.
 
daugirdas said:
Merkel is no longer keen. She is happy to let you lot go away :)

Military? Yeah, I suppose but UK still has no chance in case of full scale Russian attack. Only US and China have comparable military capability.
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Trident :D

I am happy Merkel is ok, Germany can skint itself bailing out the Greeks, Spanish and Italians. We won't have too if we vote out when the finest administration since Maggie Thatcher gives us the in/out vote.
 
ST4 said:
Trident :D

I am happy Merkel is ok, Germany can skint itself bailing out the Greeks, Spanish and Italians. We won't have too if we vote out when the finest administration since Maggie Thatcher gives us the in/out vote.
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Germany has already bailed out Greeks and Spanish, and Italians aren't getting any. Now the countries in question will have to repay the loans to... Germany. How is that a bad thing in a long run?

Btw. Trident nearly got scrapped if the referendum outcome was different. I wouldn't be 100% sure they will replace the ageing fleet of subs. It is too expensive for a small country. Think how many MDs, nurses teachers and policemen you could pay with all that money. That £1.7bn is just a drop in a sea.
 
ianp5a said:
Germany and skint? Hilarious!
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Without us helping out to bail out the greeks they'll be a greater burden on them

daugirdas said:
Germany has already bailed out Greeks and Spanish, and Italians aren't getting any. Now the countries in question will have to repay the loans to... Germany. How is that a bad thing in a long run?

Btw. Trident nearly got scrapped if the referendum outcome was different. I wouldn't be 100% sure they will replace the ageing fleet of subs. It is too expensive for a small country. Think how many MDs, nurses teachers and policemen you could pay with all that money. That £1.7bn is just a drop in a sea.
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Err. You're assuming the loans are repaid in full and not written off or reduced...big assumption.

Trident is great, Nuclear subs are great. A great military is IMHO greater than anything and should be our top priority as should be patrolling our waters to stop illegals trying to invade our realm/
 
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ST4 said:
Trident :D

I am happy Merkel is ok, Germany can skint itself bailing out the Greeks, Spanish and Italians. We won't have too if we vote out when the finest administration since Maggie Thatcher gives us the in/out vote.
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Can anyone else hear the maniacal laughter in Steve's head? :lol:
 
viv1969 said:
There it is again! :LOL:
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http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trolling

Being a prick on the internet because you can. Typically unleashing one or more cynical or sarcastic remarks on an innocent by-stander, because it's the internet and, hey, you can.

The art of deliberately, cleverly, and secretly p***ing people off, usually via the internet, using dialogue. Trolling does not mean just making rude remarks: Shouting swear words at someone doesn't count as trolling; it's just flaming, and isn't funny. Spam isn't trolling either; it p***es people off, but it's lame.

The most essential part of trolling is convincing your victim that either a) truly believe in what you are saying, no matter how outrageous, or b) give your victim malicious instructions, under the guise of help.
Trolling requires decieving; any trolling that doesn't involve decieving someone isn't trolling at all; it's just stupid. As such, your victim must not know that you are trolling; if he does, you are an unsuccesful troll.
 
ST4 said:
The most essential part of trolling is convincing your victim that truly believe in what you are saying, no matter how outrageous,
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So we're all your victims!
Thanks for clearing that up. (y)
 
Alastair said:
Given the inherent corruption in the UK government, I assume that Cameron/Osbourne take it for granted that both sides cancel each other out.

But the UK single-handedly managed to comprehensively f**k up its own calculations for the estimate to be so far adrift of the actual. And for the government to submit the figures to the EU knowing that this is what they were to be used for and then feign indignation a few weeks later when the bill is presented.. .. that's either treating the public with contempt or the cabinet/treasury is genuinely incompetent.
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Sorry, corruption in the UK and UK politics is nothing compared to the rest of the world. We have one of the most honest politicians out there... the lack of audited accounts from the EU for one. What about the governments in Africa and Asia, Eastern Europe, South America... Italy is full of dodgy dealings - if that lot are the Great Train Robbers or Brinks Mat, the government is someone nicking a pack of chewing gum from the local shop.

What corruption do we have that compares to these? The odd duck house or train travel is peanuts to the amount elsewhere.
 
ST4 said:
Thatcher was probably the finest prime minster we ever had. She had backbone
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2 of my favourite politicians in my lifetime are Thatcher and Tony Benn - complete opposites but what united them was the fact that they had their beliefs and would carry them out. They both had strong views but did what they genuinely believed was right, unlike most of our current plastic lot, governed by spin and the media.
 
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cambsno said:
Sorry, corruption in the UK and UK politics is nothing compared to the rest of the world. We have one of the most honest politicians out there... the lack of audited accounts from the EU for one. What about the governments in Africa and Asia, Eastern Europe, South America... Italy is full of dodgy dealings - if that lot are the Great Train Robbers or Brinks Mat, the government is someone nicking a pack of chewing gum from the local shop.

What corruption do we have that compares to these? The odd duck house or train travel is peanuts to the amount elsewhere.
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Not exactly true..

http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/european-auditors-point-to-errors-but-sign-off-eus-accounts/
https://fullfact.org/factchecks/has_eu_budget_rejected_auditors_18_years-28593

Within the term corruption I'd also include former ministers, senior civil servants and aides who progress through the revolving doors of government and into secure positions with multinational businesses in sectors where they have been directly responsible for regulating, overseeing and allocating contracts. Of whcih there have been many examples of all political persuasions. If irregularities within the UK defence expenditure budget were analysed I imagine it would be significantly higher than the EU average.
 
ST4 said:
Trident is great, Nuclear subs are great. A great military is IMHO greater than anything and should be our top priority as should be patrolling our waters to stop illegals trying to invade our realm/
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On Planet Steve are coastal anti-immigration patrols are carried out by nuclear-armed nuclear submarines?

Have you maybe confused the situation with that of Italy or Spain? Immigratants aren't arriving on under the white cliffs of dover in rubber rafts and dodgy fishing boats, and a how exactly does a nuclear submarine (nuclear or otherwose armed) represent an effective coastal patrol capability against small surface targets?

Trident is an expensive insurance policy that no government could ever afford to use. It's a toy fleet (only one sub at sea) so that the UK government in power can feel like it's swinging a dick with the big boys when they're swigging the gin at Davos. It has no practical value. The true superpowers all derive their status from their economies, and ours is just not that super. We rank as a has-been former empire hanging on the the trappings of the past and failing to invest for the future. Look at North Sea oil, we've comprehensively f*cked that one up in comparison to Norway and many of the Gulf States.
 
daugirdas said:
Germany has already bailed out Greeks and Spanish, and Italians aren't getting any. Now the countries in question will have to repay the loans to... Germany. How is that a bad thing in a long run?

Btw. Trident nearly got scrapped if the referendum outcome was different. I wouldn't be 100% sure they will replace the ageing fleet of subs. It is too expensive for a small country. Think how many MDs, nurses teachers and policemen you could pay with all that money. That £1.7bn is just a drop in a sea.
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You forgot Ireland.
 
cambsno said:
2 of my favourite politicians in my lifetime are Thatcher and Tony Benn - complete opposites but what united them was the fact that they had their beliefs and would carry them out. They both had strong views but did what they genuinely believed was right, unlike most of our current plastic lot, governed by spin and the media.
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I think the main problem is that our politicians are now metric with names like Milliband.

It was better when we had Imperial politicians such as Peter Inch and Michael Foot!


Steve.
 
Interesting facts from the recent study:-
People who’ve arrived since 2000 have contributed more than they’ve taken away

Overall the research estimated that since 2000 (and up to 2011) the overall fiscal contributions of recent arrivals has been:

  • Immigrants from countries joining the EU in 2004: +£5 billion
  • Immigrants from other European Economic Area (EEA) countries: +£15 billion
  • Immigrants from outside the EEA: +£5 billion
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ianp5a said:
Germany and skint? Hilarious!
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I agree, it would be hilarious, but for the fact that this thread is about the £1.7 billion that we owe the EU, and Germany (and France) have received refunds.
 
andy700 said:
I agree, it would be hilarious, but for the fact that this thread is about the £1.7 billion that we owe the EU, and Germany (and France) have received refunds.
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Because the have already over-paid.. this is a correction being applied to payments already made. It doesn't mean that either nation is in the sh*t, it just means they over-estimated their economic performance.
 
Europe has 4 of the worlds top economies and is a huge money machine that benefits all of its member countries with sums on a scale that we as individuals won't ever get to deal with. The 1.7bn is just part of the admin cost. The UK even benefits from other countries using the Euro and making savings from not having to pay for loads of individual central banks.
 
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ianp5a said:
Europe has 4 of the worlds top economies and is a huge money machine that benefits all of its member countries with sums on a scale that we as individuals won't ever get to deal with. The 1.7bn is just part of the admin cost. The UK even benefits from other countries using the Euro and making savings from not having to pay for loads of individual central banks.
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The whole euro bail out has cost us billions. Britain is an outsider in Europe and does not have the euro, coincidence that we have the best performing recovery.

My parents moved to Cyprus 10 years ago and said how good the euro was and how it was booming. Now, it is another story. The euro is holding them back, and recovery is a long way off.

What do we get for our money? Not a lot. We can easily negotiate trade and movement of people with countries, without the cost. NATO worked pre EU so defence is not an issue. While I accept some of us anti eu people can go a bit ott, the pro brigade seem to think life will stop if we left.
 
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cambsno said:
The whole euro bail out has cost us billions. Britain is an outsider in Europe and does not have the euro, coincidence that we have the best performing recovery.

My parents moved to Cyprus 10 years ago and said how good the euro was and how it was booming. Now, it is another story. The euro is holding them back, and recovery is a long way off.

What do we get for our money? Not a lot. We can easily negotiate trade and movement of people with countries, without the cost. NATO worked pre EU so defence is not an issue. While I accept some of us anti eu people can go a bit ott, the pro brigade seem to think life will stop if we left.
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You do realise that many billions have been invested in this country purely because we are in the eu? The Japanese car manufacturers for one. Listen to the investors - the leaders of the multinationals - they know it would be a bad idea to leave the eu.

EDIT
also, if being a member was such a bad idea, do you think Germany would still be there? Put your thinking cap back on for one moment and stop listening to nonsense.
 
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Rapscallion said:
You do realise that many billions have been invested in this country purely because we are in the eu? The Japanese car manufacturers for one. Listen to the investors - the leaders of the multinationals - they know it would be a bad idea to leave the eu.

EDIT
also, if being a member was such a bad idea, do you think Germany would still be there? Put your thinking cap back on for one moment and stop listening to nonsense.
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You're wasting your time. Some people here won't have anything to do with Johnny Foreigner or Common Sense.
 
Yes. There are huge huge benefits to British companies. But if the man in the street doesn't see it immediately and have a Frenchman personally hand him a wad of Euros, then Europe must be waste of space.
 
Margaret Thatcher got a rebate on Britain’s contribution to the EU’s budget.Between 1985 and 2009 it returned £63.9bn to the UK. However, thanks to a decision in 2005 by Tony Blair, the value of the rebate has fallen by 40 per cent since 2010.

Since Tony Blair’s changes, the value of the UK’s rebate has fallen by £10.4 billion (€12.4 billion)

Don't blame the EU or Tories, it was Blair who really f***ed us over EU money


Anyone who believes we can go back in time to a 1970 relationship with Europe is living in farages cloud cuckoo land
 
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acetone said:
Margaret Thatcher got a rebate on Britain’s contribution to the EU’s budget.Between 1985 and 2009 it returned £63.9bn to the UK. However, thanks to a decision in 2005 by Tony Blair, the value of the rebate has fallen by 40 per cent since 2010.
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When the rebate was agreed it was specifically to balance the Common Agricultural Policy spending where there was an imbalance between the relative input to the EU economy from France and the UK and the relative benefit derived from the CAP. At the time CAP spending was c.80% of EU expenditure. In 2005 it was just over 40%. Circumstances change - the position Thatcher argued was no longer relevant. I don't like Blair any more than I like Thatcher.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Hahahahahaha do you really think the rest of the world views the UK as a superpower???? You truly have NO idea whatsoever! To claim that is just hysterical. We are small, almost inconsequential collection of islands that only has any influence because a) the USA can rely on us to support their War of Terror and b) we are a member of the EU.
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Just remind us who the 5 permanent members on the UN Security Council are, and say again we have no influence.
I think it maybe you who has no idea whatsoever.
 
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acetone said:
Just remind us who the 5 permanent members on the UN Security Council are, and say again we have no influence.
I think it maybe you who has no idea whatsoever.
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The UKs position (and that of France) as permanent member is based on historic status rather than a reflection of current importance - the concept of even having an "elite" core of permanent members is founded on out-dated politics and the political state of the world in 1945.
 
ave you maybe confused the situation with that of Italy or Spain? Immigratants aren't arriving on under the white cliffs of dover in rubber rafts and dodgy fishing boats, and a how exactly does a nuclear submarine (nuclear or otherwose armed) represent an effective coastal patrol capability against small surface targets?
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Actually some are. And patrolling isn't the same as using weapons. the UK Submarine force has all the bells of whistles for secret squirrel covert 007 type stuff off the coast of them what don't like HMQE2. Spotting for the Boarder Agency is child play for them. Are the RN doing that? Doubt it, but even if they are, they wont be telling anyone.


The UKs position (and that of France) as permanent member is based on historic status rather than a reflection of current importance - the concept of even having an "elite" core of permanent members is founded on out-dated politics and the political state of the world in 1945.
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But those 5 were then, and still are the most powerful 5 in terms of influence, hence why the Security Council remains unchanged as far as permanent members are concerned.
 
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acetone said:
Just remind us who the 5 permanent members on the UN Security Council are, and say again we have no influence.
I think it maybe you who has no idea whatsoever.
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Let's not forget that that very same UNSC issued a resolution in 1967 decreeing that Israel withdraw from seized sovereign territory. It is 2014 and it still hasn't done so. Oh what a great influence we have.
 
The BIG qusstion to me is 'we have done that well!?'.
As I've expected for over a year now, the UK is better off then the government would like you to believe.
I've also checked back and can't find similar outrage when we received rebates (outside CAP), although they weren't so big.
Its also quite scary that our government appear to have forgotten the rules we signed up for. Its like me forgetting about the ballon payent on my car.
I believe we need to stay In the EU but itneeds major reform. Examples are, throw out financially unstable countries, stop its current expansion program, ban free movement of criminals, make each state pay for its nationals benefits (we pat benefits at UK rate to Romanians yet we don't get free health cover in all EU countries).
& before you wish for UKIP understand ALL their policies not just the one that panders to the racist/nationlist under bellly of the UK.
 
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