What do they mean ?

chrisnjulie

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Julie
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Yes
Right I really need to go back to basics (thats if I was ever there in the first place !)

I need to get to know my camera .....I've had it for 2 years and I still dont know what it can do - only because the technical jargon in the booklet is too technical !! If I learn about this camera it will make it easier for when I can step up a notch and get a better camera . I have no idea what any of the settings are and how I'm supposed to set it for what kind of occasion etc
I need an idiot proof explanation of the symbols and settings - is there one anywhere on this forum ?
I might even end up with some decent action shots , who knows !!
 
Did it come with an instruction manual?
 
Which camera did you get? Have a look and see if there's a field guide or similar type of book for the camera. They often go through each feature and show photos with and without the feature in use which helps understand what it does.
 
Which camera did you get? Have a look and see if there's a field guide or similar type of book for the camera. They often go through each feature and show photos with and without the feature in use which helps understand what it does.


Yes - it will help us to help you if you say what camera you have, Julie.:)
 
Did it come with an instruction manual?

The instruction booklet was very basic .....and then the technical stuff was too technical for me with no straight forward explanations ....rubbish !
 
I got this camera after reading a lot of positive reviews , some even comparing it to an SLR !

It's been a good little camera and I've had some great photos from it , but I want to action shots of my dogsd during gundog lessons and they go at some speed . This camera cannot keep up with them and I often get blurred out of focus shots and sometimes even miss the subject completely ......The burst option isn't quick enough , there is other options on the same selection but I have no idea what they mean BRK 0.3EV 0.7EV ????
 
You should look at the modes available and if you can go into a P (shutter priority) mode. you need a faster shutter speed to catch movement not burst mode. Almost any tutorial will help you with the basics but if your camera is only able to shoot in presets then its time to look for a new camera. Because anything you learn will be hard to apply if you can only shoot in "auto modes".
 
You should look at the modes available and if you can go into a P (shutter priority) mode. you need a faster shutter speed to catch movement not burst mode. Almost any tutorial will help you with the basics but if your camera is only able to shoot in presets then its time to look for a new camera. Because anything you learn will be hard to apply if you can only shoot in "auto modes".

Hiya Danny

In the P setting the choices I have is one single shot , burst shot , BRK 0.3EV , BRK 0.7EV ......When I press the button to take picture the screen goes black so I wouldn't be able to follow anything moving ......so do I need to alter another setting to fix that or do you think the camera is just not up to it ?
 
....When I press the button to take picture the screen goes black so I wouldn't be able to follow anything moving ......so do I need to alter another setting to fix that or do you think the camera is just not up to it ?
You CAN follow your dogs : you need to keep the camera pointing at them and it takes practice if the screen is blanked, but it can and should be done.
In my opinion burst mode is right, you need panning skills.
Just knuckle down and practice.
 
The camera isn't up to it, for a start it has a half second shutter lag in good light, worse in dodgy light.
For a beginner, even a dslr with kit lens could prove very hit and miss.
Its a very fast moving subject, need a fast camera and better than average glass to be in with a chance.
 
If you're looking for a back to basics in a really readable form I'd suggest nipping down to WH Smiths and look for the BookMags (they're about £10 and near the magazines) - theres one I just leant a friend (I forget its name unfortunately) and its really outstanding, in fact a couple of days after lending her it she commented that it was perfect and should have come with the camera!
 

I dont know if the link to the manual that Danny has offered is the one that came with your camera; But if it IS.... its far from 'basic', and neither is the camera.

Apart from an interchangeable lenses, looks to have just about every feature you would get on an entry level DSLR.... (and one of them certainly wont be any easier to 'fathom out'). While the manual does go into a lot of detail on the different modes and how to use them.

Your mode dial, has metering programe options. Better point out that the camera measures the intensity of light reflected from the scene... then makes a 'best guess' what 'exposure settings', ISO, Apperture & Shutter Speed it thinks would be 'best'.

The camera icon, is fully automatic. Lets the camera best guess the aperture, shutter speed and possibly ISO sensitivity, if it doesn't default. Basic point and press mode. If in doubt USE IT.

Two people head & Shoulders Icon: 'close up/portrait' mode. A slightly more refined point & press, let the camera make best guesses for you program; but telling it you are pointing the camera at something like a head and shoulders portrait. So it will refine its shutter, aperture & ISO settings, to those it thinks more apropriate for that kind of shot. If your shot is 'like' a head and shoulders portrait... dont be scared to use the setting.

Mountains in a box: Landscape mode. Again, Gives the camera bit more clue what you are pointing it at so it can refine the settings for you.

Head and shoulders with moon behind Night-time or 'Dark Room portriat. Again; gives the camera more clues to make best guesses for settings. If its night, dark, or indoors, and you are taking pic of people ish type scene. May be worth using.

Moon Night-Time/Dark landscapes. Again; gives camera clue what you are looking at; helps it refine settings.

What you dont have is a vast array of 'situation' refining modes. Like 'Action' Sporty, or 'Party' (Dont be sad. My O/H's pount & press has about fifty of the frigging things, and a patern regognition 'smart' system that thinks it knows better than you which one you ought to be using regardless of what you set!)

P = Program - Shift... looks a bit wampy, but essentially it lets you 'over-ride' the camera's best guess settings, and then the camera changes whatever you didn't to keep the exposure the same as its 'best guess'.

PERSONALLY I would not reccomend you use this setting; its NOT giving you manual control, its just giving you some more awkward 'adjustment' to the cameras best guess settings.

S = Shutter Priority. You set the ISO, select the shutter speed you want, camera best guesses the aperture for light level it sees.

A = Aperture priority. You set the ISO, select the aperture; camera best guesses the shutter speed.

M =Manual... you set the ISO the shutter and the aperture, and the camera probably just gives you a 'hi/lo' meter reading, suggesting whether it's best guess agrees with your settings for exposure.

The instruction manual then says:
Shooting with shutter speed priority mode (page 36)When shooting a moving person or subject, set the shutter speed higher to freeze the motion or set the shutter speed slower to get the flow of motion of the subject. Adjust the shutter speed to express a moment that is beyond the speed of the naked eye.

And for what you want to do with thr dawgs... probably the one to go for. Set a high-ish shutter-speed with middling ISO depending on light levels, and let the camera adjust exposure on the aperture.

BUT: BRK is 'Bracketing'; the camera will be trying to take three pictures, one 1/3 stop under exposed, and one 1/3 stop over exposed, around third nominal exposure.

In addition to an image with the exposure automatically set by the camera, two other images are recorded with exposure values shifted to the + and – sides.

If you are trying to track moving subjects, this is probably not a good option to select. Its best used when you have tricky lighting, and you aren't sure that the camera's metering 'best guess' exposure will be the best.

It will be slowing the camera down, as it tries to process three shots in one go, leaving you looking at that blank screen as you try and pan.

On a similar point; if you are shooting in 'RAW' rather than J-Peg, that too is likely to slow the camera down; particularly if you have a slow SD card in it, meaning more time with grey-screen, while you pan.

Higher ISO's and any 'NR' or Noise Reduction settings at higher ISO will also give the camera more processing to do between shots and slow it down. Best NOT to use these if you dont really need to.

You have three Auto-Focus options according to the book;
Single (S AF) - Automatically adjusts the focus when the shutter button is pressed and held halfway down. This mode is useful for shooting stationary subjects.
Monitor (M AF) - Automatically adjusts the focus before the shutter button is pressed and held halfway down. This mode shortens the time needed for focusing.• Battery consumption may be faster than in [Single] mode.
Continuous (C AF) - Adjusts the focus before you press and hold the shutter button halfway down, and then continues to adjust the focus even after AF lock is completed.This mode allows shooting of moving subjects with continued focus.• Battery consumption may be faster than in any other AF mode.
So if your dogs are a bit quick in teh frame, Continiouse would seem a good choice.

Again, its all in the book, and not all that 'technical', if you work through it slowly, and logically, and dont try and commit it ALL to memory, but figure out the its that are apropriate to what you are trying to do.
 
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The instruction booklet was very basic .....and then the technical stuff was too technical for me with no straight forward explanations ....rubbish !

Sorry to say Julie, but this sounds like a bit of a contradiction to me.
I gave my sister a camera a few years ago, comlete with all instructions and fully charged battery. I offered to show her how to use it, but she simply put it to one side.
Over a year later she complained that it didn't work.
She hadn't read the instructions (which were pretty good - Pentax) and the battery had gone flat.
Sometimes in life you have to put a little effort in to get results back.

Good luck.
 
Some great advice on the thread but if you're still struggling you'll probably benefit from spending a couple of hours with someone who can show you the basics and explain the terminology "in the field". If you have any keen photographers/ex-photographers in your family or circle of friends, see if you can arrange something.
 
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The link to the manual above is to a different camera. The OP has a DSCH20. The link is for the manual to the DSCR1.

The OP's camera does have a manual setting but not Av or Tv.

Link to manual - http://esupport.sony.com/US/p/model...late_id=1&region_id=1&tab=manuals#/manualsTab

However, I suspect the problem is as noted by Joxby. There is a shutter lag, among other things, and unfortunately this means some poor/lost photos.


Of the available settings on your camera the two that may help to catch your dogs moving are High Sensitivity and Advanced Sports Shooting. The manual setting could also be useful but you'll need to now the relationship between aperture, shutter speed and ISO to get the best out if it.

For anything more challenging than an evenly lit static scene, and fast moving subjects is definitely more challenging, and understanding of those three elements and how they affect the final image is essential.

Dave
 
Your BRK 0.7EV is exposure compensation and that is not what your looking for. After a quick look over the manual page 36 http://www.manualowl.com/m/Sony/DSC-R1/Manual/116125?page=44 is how to set the shutter speed but with only 2 settings your going to find it quite hard to get what you want.

Danny

I knew it was down to the shutter speed , thank you so much for taking the time to have a look at the manual for me , really appreciate that .
 
I dont know if the link to the manual that Danny has offered is the one that came with your camera; But if it IS.... its far from 'basic', and neither is the camera.

Apart from an interchangeable lenses, looks to have just about every feature you would get on an entry level DSLR.... (and one of them certainly wont be any easier to 'fathom out'). While the manual does go into a lot of detail on the different modes and how to use them.

Your mode dial, has metering programe options. Better point out that the camera measures the intensity of light reflected from the scene... then makes a 'best guess' what 'exposure settings', ISO, Apperture & Shutter Speed it thinks would be 'best'.

The camera icon, is fully automatic. Lets the camera best guess the aperture, shutter speed and possibly ISO sensitivity, if it doesn't default. Basic point and press mode. If in doubt USE IT.

Two people head & Shoulders Icon: 'close up/portrait' mode. A slightly more refined point & press, let the camera make best guesses for you program; but telling it you are pointing the camera at something like a head and shoulders portrait. So it will refine its shutter, aperture & ISO settings, to those it thinks more apropriate for that kind of shot. If your shot is 'like' a head and shoulders portrait... dont be scared to use the setting.

Mountains in a box: Landscape mode. Again, Gives the camera bit more clue what you are pointing it at so it can refine the settings for you.

Head and shoulders with moon behind Night-time or 'Dark Room portriat. Again; gives the camera more clues to make best guesses for settings. If its night, dark, or indoors, and you are taking pic of people ish type scene. May be worth using.

Moon Night-Time/Dark landscapes. Again; gives camera clue what you are looking at; helps it refine settings.

What you dont have is a vast array of 'situation' refining modes. Like 'Action' Sporty, or 'Party' (Dont be sad. My O/H's pount & press has about fifty of the frigging things, and a patern regognition 'smart' system that thinks it knows better than you which one you ought to be using regardless of what you set!)

P = Program - Shift... looks a bit wampy, but essentially it lets you 'over-ride' the camera's best guess settings, and then the camera changes whatever you didn't to keep the exposure the same as its 'best guess'.

PERSONALLY I would not reccomend you use this setting; its NOT giving you manual control, its just giving you some more awkward 'adjustment' to the cameras best guess settings.

S = Shutter Priority. You set the ISO, select the shutter speed you want, camera best guesses the aperture for light level it sees.

A = Aperture priority. You set the ISO, select the aperture; camera best guesses the shutter speed.

M =Manual... you set the ISO the shutter and the aperture, and the camera probably just gives you a 'hi/lo' meter reading, suggesting whether it's best guess agrees with your settings for exposure.

The instruction manual then says:


And for what you want to do with thr dawgs... probably the one to go for. Set a high-ish shutter-speed with middling ISO depending on light levels, and let the camera adjust exposure on the aperture.

BUT: BRK is 'Bracketing'; the camera will be trying to take three pictures, one 1/3 stop under exposed, and one 1/3 stop over exposed, around third nominal exposure.



If you are trying to track moving subjects, this is probably not a good option to select. Its best used when you have tricky lighting, and you aren't sure that the camera's metering 'best guess' exposure will be the best.

It will be slowing the camera down, as it tries to process three shots in one go, leaving you looking at that blank screen as you try and pan.

On a similar point; if you are shooting in 'RAW' rather than J-Peg, that too is likely to slow the camera down; particularly if you have a slow SD card in it, meaning more time with grey-screen, while you pan.

Higher ISO's and any 'NR' or Noise Reduction settings at higher ISO will also give the camera more processing to do between shots and slow it down. Best NOT to use these if you dont really need to.

You have three Auto-Focus options according to the book;

So if your dogs are a bit quick in teh frame, Continiouse would seem a good choice.

Again, its all in the book, and not all that 'technical', if you work through it slowly, and logically, and dont try and commit it ALL to memory, but figure out the its that are apropriate to what you are trying to do.

Hiya Mike
Wow thanks for that ......I've had a look at the link to the manual and its definately NOT what I got with the camera ......:)
I will have to invest in a good book (I have been advised on a book ) and will see if I can get a mag or two for novices .....Unfortunately I'm not a good learner when it comes to reading ...I'm best being shown , I learn quicker that way . I will have to seek out someone who lives close who's willing to spend some 'frustrating' time with me . Like with everything else I do , I'm eager to get it right .
Thank you so much for your time , appreciated .

Oooh Mike thats not the right camera ! Mine is DSCH20 ! I wondered why the manual wasn't the same !
 
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You CAN follow your dogs : you need to keep the camera pointing at them and it takes practice if the screen is blanked, but it can and should be done.
In my opinion burst mode is right, you need panning skills.
Just knuckle down and practice.

I do keep following the dog with the camera even if the screen is blanked out :lol:
I never give up , I have lots of blank photos to prove it . Good job its not film I'm wasting isn't it ?
 
Sorry to say Julie, but this sounds like a bit of a contradiction to me.
I gave my sister a camera a few years ago, comlete with all instructions and fully charged battery. I offered to show her how to use it, but she simply put it to one side.
Over a year later she complained that it didn't work.
She hadn't read the instructions (which were pretty good - Pentax) and the battery had gone flat.
Sometimes in life you have to put a little effort in to get results back.

Good luck.

I've read the manual I got with the camera many times , but I have no idea what I'm reading ! It would be like giving a car manual to someone who doesn't own a car ! I really do need something idiot proof - I dont learn by reading , I learn by getting shown .....we all learn in different ways .:bonk: I will do my best to learn because I want to . :)
 
When I found the link to your camera's manual I had a bit of a read. Honestly, I don't find it that easy to comprehend, though it was a very quick scan.

Moving subjects are one of the most difficult to capture, ask anyone who takes photos of birds in flight.

If you learn best by being shown either, as ZoneV, suggested try talking to someone or, if you don't know anyone who can help, have a look online for tutorial videos.

Dave
 
I dont learn by reading , I learn by getting shown

I don't know of anyone doing this off the top of my head but I'd imagine that someone will have done tutorials/lessons about exposure settings on YouTube. It won't be the same as having someone sit and show you but it's a step closer than reading.
 
Oooh Mike thats not the right camera ! Mine is DSCH20 ! I wondered why the manual wasn't the same !

Yup I did wonder when I spotted your parallel post in 'Talk Basics' = Action Shots

I also think I found the manual for your camera and linked to it there.

You do have some manual modes you can use to force the camera to use higher shutter speeds, if you check the book to find aproprioate menu selections.

However, I think that primary problem here at the moment is you are trying to cram too much dog in your frame, and using too much 'zoom', and possibly going right to the extreme and into the cameras 'digital' zoom.

More magnification you use... and zoom is magnifying the subject in the frame, isn't it? More you will magnify any errors.

Dogs are moving, and even at incredibly high shutter speeds, you will still get some 'blur' its caused by reletive movement between the camera and the subject... subject moving and or camera moving. Lower the shutter speed, more movement you are going to 'see' and have blurr in the frame. BUT bigger the subject, more of the frame that movements going to blurr over.

Meanwhile Digital Zoom... your camera has a 10x optical zoom from I think its 6.3mm to 63mm; when you touch the button, what makes the subject bigger on the screen, is bits of glass physically moving inside the camera, magnifying the image falling on the cameras sensor.

When you run out of 'zoom' in the mechanical world... the camera 'cheats'.

Your pictures are, 10Mpix? I dont know. They are made up of a grid of coloured squares any way. Millions of them. Probably something like 4,000 squares wide, by 3,000 squares tall. Generated by a sensor that has, for the purposes of this explanation, a grid of 'receptors' with one receptor for each pixel.

Now, when you run out of propper, optical zoom, the image on the sensor magnified as far as the lens will allow; what the camera does to 'Digital Zoom' is look at the middle bit of what is on the sensor..... maybe a grid just 2000 squares by 1,500... then it does some maths... 'processing' (Remember comment above about slowing the camera down, when the screen goes grey? Thats what happens when it has a lot of work to do, and this is giving it more work)... does some maths... and quarters the actual squares its looking at, and makes more 'best guesses' what to put into them, based on whats in teh squares around, to artificially magnify the image a bit more.

And digital zoom is almost ALWAYS blurry.... instead of the full 10 or 12Mpix image you're sensor might deliver, you are effectively looking at a 5 or 6Mpix image, thats been magnified 2x...

And what does magnification do? Thats right, magnify any errors! So you are looking at an image of reduced resolution, magnified to show it in all its possible horribleness!

Use less zoom. And avoid Digital zoom like the plague.

If you don't fill the frame with as much dog...... you wont magnify as much blurr. You may not get as big a pooch, but it will be sharper. Smaller subject = less frame for subject to blurr across.

Then the bonus's start stacking up. Not using as much zoom, you will be getting light from more of the scene*, you are looking at, which means the camera can set a higher shutter speed. Means less blurr still.

Tracking? Keeping the mutt in shot? Smaller in the frame, more space around it; so the more 'margin' you have and the less likely the mutt will run out of it while you are taking a picture.

Not using digital zoom? Less processing. Camera will spend less time thinking about writing data from sensor to memory card; you will get less shutter lag and more real-time screen viewing to keep tracking the dog.

Start with the simple..... use less zoom!

Then you can start thinking about how to force the camera to use higher shutter speeds, or other techniques at your disposal.... reading up on them, and then checking the camera user guide to see how to do them...

and Then you can start thinking bolded.... because of comment in parallel thread, where you asked about an alternative camera that can do the thinking for you..... see reply there.

MACHINES DON'T THINK - They Merely Follow Instructions.....

YOU have to do the thinking. And it doesn't take much, once you have the idea.

* Contentiousely over simplified comment.

But you have a scene, iluminated by sunlight. More area of scene you have in the frame, so the more light you are catching on your cameras sensor. Imagine you have a torch in your hand.... shine it on a table so it lights up an area about the size of a dinner plate.... probably be bright enough to eat by. Shine it at a key-hole? Smaller area, probably be very bright, certainly enough to get your car key in the hole without scratching the paint on the door..... Now point it accross a field.... you probably wouldn't light up the hedge the other side of it, or if you did... wouldn't be very bright!

Same thing but backwards. Instead of a torch chucking out light.... you are holding a camera trying to 'catch' light. Point the thing down the field, trying to catch all the light falling on trees and hedges and grass and 'orses or whatever... lots of things all reflecting a lot of light at your sensor. Point the thing at a key-hole, and your sensor is only going to get that bit of light reflected from something the size of a coin... it ent going to be much, compared to something bigger than a house. (Research the Inverse Square Law)

Now! Contension of statement, is because in photography, to keep the maths simple, when we work out 'exposures'... we use ratios rather than actual quantities.

And significantly when we talk about 'aperture', which is a hole that lets light through the lens; rather than talking of an aperture setting in how BIG it is, I dont know, 0.25mm or whatever... we talk in f-stops; f1.4, or f3.6 or whatever... which is a RATIO of the the lenses focal length to the aperture diameter; and provides a sort of 'constant' that works whatever zoom setting we have; as the more zoom we use, the longer the focal length... to the bigger the aperture would be in mm to keep the same f-number... letting in more light, to compensate for the lesser amount of light the camera can 'see'... make sense?

So zoom ought not change your exposure; ISO to F-Stop to Shutter speed.

EXCEPT... on YOUR camera, and most modern zooms.... it does!

Because the 'maximum' aperture setting, the 'widest' aperture tends to be a smaller ratio at the wide angle end of the zoom, because its a ratio, and the apperture control on a lens can only make the hole smaller. So at the wide end you get one ratio from the biggest hole, at the other, as the focal length is increased, you get a different ratio, a higher F-number as the focal length you are dividing by the diameter of the biggest hole you can make, gets bigger.

So... the 'it doesn't matter what zoom you use' argument is based on the f-number not changing.....

Lens I have in front of me, is an 18-55mm f3.5/5.6. Maximum f-number at 18mm wide angle is f-3.5, at the 55mm telephoto end, its f-5.6.

If I were to meter on a scene, and got suggested exposure settings of say, f8 at 1/125th of a second, at ISO100.... I could zoom back and forth through the range, and those settings wouldn't change.

However, IF I set, f3.5.. that is three & 1/3 stops 'up' from f-8, so for same scene I could select a shutter speed of 1/600th, at ISO100 and keep the same exposure value.

BUT I would ONLY get f-3.5 at the 18mm zoom setting... as I zoomed 'in', the widest aperture the camera could set would get smaller, and at 55mm I would have f-5.6, two and a third stops 'down' from f-3.5.... so if I was using fully manual, and didn't change any settings... my picture would come out 'dark# two and a third stops 'under exposed', probably enough for it to be too dark to see anything useful.

So, I would have to 'compensate' and adjust either the ISO or the Shutter speed, to keep the same picture brightness or exposure.... and that would mean coming back down on shutter speed to about 1/250th.

HEAVY explanation... but there you go.

Your camera I think, has an f-3.5/4.4 maximum aperture; so same deal applies. Less zoom you use, faster the maximum aperture you have, higher your shutter speed might be set for the same exposure.

And I think from comment I read in review; you dont actually have any aperture control on your camera, it is fixed, and ONLY varies with the zoom, so likely you will ALWAYS have this issue, of more zoom meaning slower shutter.
 
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...

* Contentiousely over simplified comment.

But you have a scene, iluminated by sunlight. More area of scene you have in the frame, so the more light you are catching on your cameras sensor. Imagine you have a torch in your hand.... shine it on a table so it lights up an area about the size of a dinner plate.... probably be bright enough to eat by. Shine it at a key-hole? Smaller area, probably be very bright, certainly enough to get your car key in the hole without scratching the paint on the door..... Now point it accross a field.... you probably wouldn't light up the hedge the other side of it, or if you did... wouldn't be very bright!

Same thing but backwards. Instead of a torch chucking out light.... you are holding a camera trying to 'catch' light. Point the thing down the field, trying to catch all the light falling on trees and hedges and grass and 'orses or whatever... lots of things all reflecting a lot of light at your sensor. Point the thing at a key-hole, and your sensor is only going to get that bit of light reflected from something the size of a coin... it ent going to be much, compared to something bigger than a house. (Research the Inverse Square Law)

Now! Contension of statement, is because in photography, to keep the maths simple, when we work out 'exposures'... we use ratios rather than actual quantities.

Mike, you've given some awesome advice to the OP in this thread and the other one but I couldn't let this bit go by. It's not contentious, it's just incorrect.

The inverse square law doesn't effect reflected light from subjects (we can use sunny 16 to shoot the moon - lit by the sun).

If your subject was 100 yards away, or 3 yards away in the same light - exactly the same exposure would get it exposed correctly. The only important light you're catching on your cameras sensor is the light bouncing off your subject (which as I said is a constant - barring atmospheric conditions).

So if a dark subject is in a corn field, exposing for the field will give a nice bright picture - but your subject will be underexposed. All that extra light that landed on your sensor would be no use to you, photographically speaking it's actually a disadvantage.
 
I do keep following the dog with the camera even if the screen is blanked out :lol:
I never give up , I have lots of blank photos to prove it . Good job its not film I'm wasting isn't it ?
Good. Keep at it.
Keep both eyes open, lock your position with the camera, hands, body and head and move the whole lot ... like a robot. Look out at the subject at the same time as you are aware of the LCD. Yeah, I know. :thinking:
Your camera looks like it should have a viewfinder but it doesn't so I guess you're holding it out infront of yourself.
Be a turret and practice, then one day suddenly you'll get every single frame with a dog in it.

440x330-sony-h20_rear.jpg
 
Mike, you've given some awesome advice to the OP in this thread and the other one but I couldn't let this bit go by. It's not contentious, it's just incorrect..

Yeah.. ref to inverse square rule, was for further reading, where I would hope that the matter would be explained more fully.

Point was, like a torch in reverse, wider field you try and spread the beam over, so the dimmer the light on any one patch of what you are lighting up. Turn that backwards; use less zoom, you get light from more 'land' in your frame; hence more reflected light... and right answer by skew reasoning... the mechanics of the camera giving wider aperture at the wide end than at the tele-end... you get the right answer, by the inaccurate reasoning...

Use less zoom, you get more light, can use faster shutter speed to freeze the dawg!
 
Teflon-Mike said:
Yeah.. ref to inverse square rule, was for further reading, where I would hope that the matter would be explained more fully.

Point was, like a torch in reverse, wider field you try and spread the beam over, so the dimmer the light on any one patch of what you are lighting up. Turn that backwards; use less zoom, you get light from more 'land' in your frame; hence more reflected light... and right answer by skew reasoning... the mechanics of the camera giving wider aperture at the wide end than at the tele-end... you get the right answer, by the inaccurate reasoning...

Use less zoom, you get more light, can use faster shutter speed to freeze the dawg!

So if there's a single point light source in the middle of a dark field and I zoom out from it, I get more light?

Or if I'm in a dark wood and there's a single light shaft with which to work?

Errrrmmmm....

Available light is available light.
 
So if there's a single point light source in the middle of a dark field and I zoom out from it, I get more light?

Or if I'm in a dark wood and there's a single light shaft with which to work?

Errrrmmmm....

Available light is available light.

I think Mike is trying to say that the wider aperture of the variable lens wworks in favour of wide angle to raise the shutter speed.

But as an example it leave a lot to be desired, as it's too easy to lead to the conclusion we both drew. :thinking:
 
I think Mike is trying to say that the wider aperture of the variable lens wworks in favour of wide angle to raise the shutter speed.

But as an example it leave a lot to be desired, as it's too easy to lead to the conclusion we both drew. :thinking:

Hence why I put the qualification, in original reply.

Available light is available light.

Yup....

So if there's a single point light source in the middle of a dark field and I zoom out from it, I get more light?

Yes... you get the single point of light in your dark field, plus whatever small amounts of light are coming from the dark field that were outside your frame edges.

Volume and pressure - we meter light intensity, brightness, not quantity.

Rain?

Gravity is a constant; so the stuff falls at a constant 'speed'. How much water falls, depends on the number of drops that fall out the sky in a certain time.

Take three buckets with lids. cut a hole a foot in diameter in the lid of the first bucket. Cut a hole 6" in diameter in the lid of the second. A hole 3" in diameter in the lid of the third. Stick them all outside in the rain at for the same time. Which one will have more water in it when its stopped raining?

One with the biggest hole! - Bigger area of land you collect over, more water you will get. Right?

OK. Film or CCD, you need a certain amount of light, to tickle it into producing an image. A certain number of photons... like our rain drops.

You can get them rain-drops, from gathering the rain from a big area of land for a short time, or a small area of land for a longer one, right?

So, take an Ambient light reading; measures light intensity. You get an EV; translates to range of possible balanced ISO to Shutter Speed to F-Stop settings.

Lets SAY; you get f4 @ 1/60th on ISO100. That exposure is correct, and works whether you are shooting wide or tight.

BUT! that's because the F-number is a ratio proportional to the lens length, hence the area of scene, you're catching photons from.

As you zoom in, to maintain F4, the actual aperture hole is getting bigger to maintain the f-number ratio and let MORE light through the lens, because whilst its still the same intensity, your taking it from a smaller area, so getting fewer photons from it.

So, yes; while ambient light is ambient light; and Exposure Values suggest you don't get any 'change' whether you shoot wide or tight, that is only because of the 'compensator' of measuring the aperture setting as a RATIO that is proportional to lens length, rather than as its actual physical diameter.

Go wide, you DO have more reflected light... of the same intensity, able to get to your sensor.

And if you kept the aperture diameter the same size, rather than the F-Number... you would increase exposure.

But.. lets get a bit more practical: Lets take a meter reading. Not with hand held ambient meter, but with the camera's TTL system, that will presume 18% grey or there abouts, and do some sort of 'averaging' of reflected light levels over the whole scene it sees through the lens.

Lets try a spot-lamp in a cornfield at night.

If you took a wide angle frame of the whole field.... TTL meter would see that spotlight as just on bright point of light in the middle of the average dim scene. Presuming 18% grey, meter would give a low EV

Zoom in on that spot-light; fill the frame with it.... meter will see nothing but spot-light. Still presuming 18% grey, give a higher EV.

Have you never done that? Use a wide angle lens to get pseudo-ambient EV's then used telephoto to pseudo-spot meter; before using the range to decide what to go with?

Now OP is inexpert, struggling even with the low level explanations of consumer-compact instruction booklet! Taking pictures of her dogs, in a field.

Zoomed 'in', camera is seeing much smaller area of real-estate, and significantly darker back-ground tones; from grass and foliage around the dog, and not a lot of sky or anything. As she is significantly pointing camera 'down' at her dogs on the floor.

Similar deal; zoomed in, getting an average of a much smaller sample, and presuming 18% grey... the camera will tend to try and up the exposure to brighten that scene.

So it will tend to try and open up the aperture, and set a longer shutter speed.

OP's camera has smaller aperture at the tele-end of her zoom, so she will hit the barrier of how much light the lens can pass sooner, and the camera will start lengthining shutter time earlier, than if she was shooting wide.

These things working against her, to get a high shutter speed to stop her dogs being blurry.

If she zoomed wide. First she would have a wider maximum aparture, so for given meter reading, camera could set a faster shutter speed. Meanwhile, metering over a wider area of real-estate, and averaging brightness levels over a wider area of scene, more likely to get a few more areas of greater brightness, even if its just grass around her dogs, rather than a large area of shaddow beneath them 'tight in'. And if wider still, likely to get a bit more high-lights and possibly a bit of sky... which would tend to prompt the camera to calculate a higher EV, and again, suggest a faster, dog-freezing shutter speed.

So, purpose of post, to try, probably not wonderfully to explain, why, OP, using a bit less zoom, would almost certainly get much better results; maybe not quite so much frame filling detail... but what she did get, much more likely to be sharper, for compound of reasons where using more zoom is multiplying lots of factors working against her.

Add on Ed:
In the tradition of the Great Greek Philosophers; my mind has been mulling this conundrum in the bath.
I now have images of a light-house tower filled with millions of Denis the Mennis clones, armed with inexhaustible bags of 'photon' peas and super photonic pea-shooters! Some times I hate my warmed psyce!
 
Last edited:
Hence why I put the qualification, in original reply.



Yup....



Yes... you get the single point of light in your dark field, plus whatever small amounts of light are coming from the dark field that were outside your frame edges.

Volume and pressure - we meter light intensity, brightness, not quantity.

Rain?

Gravity is a constant; so the stuff falls at a constant 'speed'. How much water falls, depends on the number of drops that fall out the sky in a certain time.

Take three buckets with lids. cut a hole a foot in diameter in the lid of the first bucket. Cut a hole 6" in diameter in the lid of the second. A hole 3" in diameter in the lid of the third. Stick them all outside in the rain at for the same time. Which one will have more water in it when its stopped raining?

One with the biggest hole! - Bigger area of land you collect over, more water you will get. Right?

OK. Film or CCD, you need a certain amount of light, to tickle it into producing an image. A certain number of photons... like our rain drops.

You can get them rain-drops, from gathering the rain from a big area of land for a short time, or a small area of land for a longer one, right?

So, take an Ambient light reading; measures light intensity. You get an EV; translates to range of possible balanced ISO to Shutter Speed to F-Stop settings.

Lets SAY; you get f4 @ 1/60th on ISO100. That exposure is correct, and works whether you are shooting wide or tight.

BUT! that's because the F-number is a ratio proportional to the lens length, hence the area of scene, you're catching photons from.

As you zoom in, to maintain F4, the actual aperture hole is getting bigger to maintain the f-number ratio and let MORE light through the lens, because whilst its still the same intensity, your taking it from a smaller area, so getting fewer photons from it.

So, yes; while ambient light is ambient light; and Exposure Values suggest you don't get any 'change' whether you shoot wide or tight, that is only because of the 'compensator' of measuring the aperture setting as a RATIO that is proportional to lens length, rather than as its actual physical diameter.

Go wide, you DO have more reflected light... of the same intensity, able to get to your sensor.

And if you kept the aperture diameter the same size, rather than the F-Number... you would increase exposure.

But.. lets get a bit more practical: Lets take a meter reading. Not with hand held ambient meter, but with the camera's TTL system, that will presume 18% grey or there abouts, and do some sort of 'averaging' of reflected light levels over the whole scene it sees through the lens.

Lets try a spot-lamp in a cornfield at night.

If you took a wide angle frame of the whole field.... TTL meter would see that spotlight as just on bright point of light in the middle of the average dim scene. Presuming 18% grey, meter would give a low EV

Zoom in on that spot-light; fill the frame with it.... meter will see nothing but spot-light. Still presuming 18% grey, give a higher EV.

Have you never done that? Use a wide angle lens to get pseudo-ambient EV's then used telephoto to pseudo-spot meter; before using the range to decide what to go with?

Now OP is inexpert, struggling even with the low level explanations of consumer-compact instruction booklet! Taking pictures of her dogs, in a field.

Zoomed 'in', camera is seeing much smaller area of real-estate, and significantly darker back-ground tones; from grass and foliage around the dog, and not a lot of sky or anything. As she is significantly pointing camera 'down' at her dogs on the floor.

Similar deal; zoomed in, getting an average of a much smaller sample, and presuming 18% grey... the camera will tend to try and up the exposure to brighten that scene.

So it will tend to try and open up the aperture, and set a longer shutter speed.

OP's camera has smaller aperture at the tele-end of her zoom, so she will hit the barrier of how much light the lens can pass sooner, and the camera will start lengthining shutter time earlier, than if she was shooting wide.

These things working against her, to get a high shutter speed to stop her dogs being blurry.

If she zoomed wide. First she would have a wider maximum aparture, so for given meter reading, camera could set a faster shutter speed. Meanwhile, metering over a wider area of real-estate, and averaging brightness levels over a wider area of scene, more likely to get a few more areas of greater brightness, even if its just grass around her dogs, rather than a large area of shaddow beneath them 'tight in'. And if wider still, likely to get a bit more high-lights and possibly a bit of sky... which would tend to prompt the camera to calculate a higher EV, and again, suggest a faster, dog-freezing shutter speed.

So, purpose of post, to try, probably not wonderfully to explain, why, OP, using a bit less zoom, would almost certainly get much better results; maybe not quite so much frame filling detail... but what she did get, much more likely to be sharper, for compound of reasons where using more zoom is multiplying lots of factors working against her.

Add on Ed:
In the tradition of the Great Greek Philosophers; my mind has been mulling this conundrum in the bath.
I now have images of a light-house tower filled with millions of Denis the Mennis clones, armed with inexhaustible bags of 'photon' peas and super photonic pea-shooters! Some times I hate my warmed psyce!

I was in the garden last night practising (as you do)
I got what you meant about using too much zoom .......it seems like things are clicking into place . I even got what you meant about digital zoom !! :thumbs:
My OH is bored to death about me going on !! So when I'm reading something and I get an 'Einstein' moment and shriek AHAAAA , he jumps out of his skin !
I'm even thinking more about whats in the background of the subject I'm taking ......its usually a load of old plant pots and wotnot .
So thanks .......and here's to a long relationship with my camera ! (even my OH too if he doesn't get sick of it all lol )
 
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