What car?

What car would you have under budget?

  • Octavia 2.0 TDI PD 140

    Votes: 20 45.5%

  • Octavia 1.9 TDI PD 105

    Votes: 4 9.1%

  • Superb 1.9 TDI PD 130

    Votes: 5 11.4%

  • Avensis 2.2 D-4D

    Votes: 7 15.9%

  • Accord 2.2 diesel executive and highest insurance

    Votes: 13 29.5%
  • Total voters
    44
Why are diesel drivers Sooooooo touchy?

Its a fact, diesel engines are noiser and slower than the equivalent petrol engines.
 
I object to having to pay out for a proper spare wheel from Skoda instead of one of those blowup to get me home gismos.

my freelander diesel does 33mpg around the houses and mid 40's on the motorway. Its also got one of those stop/start devices to save fuel in traffic delays.
I was concerned about the strain on the starter motor but even that has been upgraded to cope.

Realspeed
 
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you want to go for something sweedish for when the snow comes
 
The Greek said:
Why are diesel drivers Sooooooo touchy?

Its a fact, diesel engines are noiser and slower than the equivalent petrol engines.
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Unless it one of those Audis that won Lemans 24hr beating ALL petrol cars :)
 
acetone said:
Which woun't be as responsive as v1O F1 car, compare like for like, and not my dick is bigger than yours
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Sure.

I'll wager the 1.5dci in his Micra isn't as responsive as the 1.2 petrol engine also on offer. I know which one I'd rather have, if push came to shove.

And in case there is some confusion, my definition of "responsive" is throttle response, i.e. pressing the pedal and waiting for something to happen whilst the diesel engine girds its loins and the turbo thinks "yeah I'd better spin up now and produce some horsepower" .
 
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The Greek said:
Why are diesel drivers Sooooooo touchy?
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Purchase justification syndrome, and the attempt to convince others that they haven't bought it solely because of the headline fuel economy figures :)
 
I'd take a serious look at a Mk1 Seat Leon, especially the deisels. For the money you're looking to spend you'd get a good 110 or 130 TDi, or a 1.8 petrol that'll easily give you 40mpg.

I ran a Leon Cupra R 1.8t with 225bhp for three years as my everyday ride. Did nearly 100k in it and aside from a top mount bush replacement and the usual servicing and other consumables (tyres, brakes) it was amazingly reliable. From that very, very pokey engine I used to get 35-37mpg on long runs, and closer to 32mpg in town. It ended up with 125k on the clock and was like new when I chopped it in last week for a Volvo S60 D5. They did a 150bhp Cupra version that easily does 50mpg and there are plenty of, albeit many have 80k+ on the clock. Parts are cheap, build is better than the Skodas, and they have an ace chassis that really does do corners well. Plus, they're four doors and a massive hatchback and passengers ahve ample head and legroom. Equipment is okay - don't think sat-nav was an option on many, but digital air con was standard on the higher models.

If my mileage allowance at work wasn't so paltry I would have kept it - the best car I've driven and very good for long runs in the comfort stakes.

The Greek said:
Why are diesel drivers Sooooooo touchy?

Its a fact, diesel engines are noiser and slower than the equivalent petrol engines.
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My Volvo is like a bag of spanners on start-up (compared to my old petrols) but soon quietens down, although nothing near the level of a petrol. Still, that's one of the things I had to compromise on when I changed and the 52mpg I'm getting from the D5 engine is a nice touch. :)
 
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acetone said:
Which woun't be as responsive as v1O F1 car, compare like for like, and not my dick is bigger than yours
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Not sure about your penis fascination, was simply saying that normally you dont get economy and performance on the same car, usually one is sacrificed to gain the other.
 
neil_g said:
oh shut up youre annoying me now, youre trolling plain and simple.
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So dont bite to it then. I think there is a valid point in his statement.
 
hcanning said:
Sure.

I'll wager the 1.5dci in his Micra isn't as responsive as the 1.2 petrol engine also on offer. I know which one I'd rather have, if push came to shove.

And in case there is some confusion, my definition of "responsive" is throttle response, i.e. pressing the pedal and waiting for something to happen whilst the diesel engine girds its loins and the turbo thinks "yeah I'd better spin up now and produce some horsepower" .
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I'll take that wager on, we'll start at 25mph in top gear and see who gets to 60 first.
 
acetone said:
I'll take that wager on, we'll start at 25mph in top gear and see who gets to 60 first.
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Why, has someone filled our gearboxes with cement?
 
acetone said:
I'll take that wager on, we'll start at 25mph in top gear and see who gets to 60 first.
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You're confusing throttle response and 0-60 times. A car can feel more responsive and be slower, much like older cars with big old turbos have a bit of lag but once they get going it feels like you're on the deathstar.

daizylindsay said:
The new diesel audi and others turn off when stationary and you don't get quieter than that!
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Well that's just cheating :nono:

I won't argue with the others, I'll just get all stroppy and call everyone phallically challenged.
 
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hcanning said:
Purchase justification syndrome, and the attempt to convince others that they haven't bought it solely because of the headline fuel economy figures :)
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and because they don't need to worry about high-tension electrical ignition system, coils, spark plug ect, and no really worries if the engine gets damp ( my original mini was a pain in very heavy rain) I will say diesels can be harder to start in very cold weather.

At the end of the day now often to you change your car,if every 3 or 4 years then get a petrol, if like me you keep them a dozen or more then diesel can often come out on top, it was more so when diesel was cheaper than petrol, but maybe not got the same fuel costs adavntage these days.
 
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acetone said:
and because they don't need to worry about high-tension electrical ignition system, coils, spark plug ect, and no really worries if the engine gets damp ( my original mini was a pain in very heavy rain) I will say diesels can be harder to start in very cold weather.

At the end of the day now often to you change your car,if every 3 or 4 years then get a petrol, if like me you keep them a dozen or more then diesel can often come out on top, it was more so when diesel was cheaper than petrol, but maybe not got the same fuel costs adavntage these days.
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Spark plugs cost about £4 each. A set of HT leads is about £30.

How much is a new high pressure injector? How much is a new turbo? How much is a diesel fuel pump? If you don't know, look it up ;)

Damp? Diesels can suffer hydrolocking too, and in fact it will take a smaller quantity of water to knacker one. And the original Mini was designed in the 1950s. ;)
 
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acetone said:
and because they don't need to worry about high-tension electrical ignition system, coils, spark plug ect, and no really worries if the engine gets damp ( my original mini was a pain in very heavy rain) I will say diesels can be harder to start in very cold weather.
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Come on, lets not compare modern petrol engines to the boat anchor in a mini. That problem went away in the 80s/90s.

mattyg said:
One of my drivers has an Octavia with a PD engine that has over 650k on the clock, A clock that hasn't worked in over 2 yrs. So its a damn sight nearer to a million.
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So even at an extremely generous average speed of 30 mph that works out to be 3.5 years continuously behind the wheel for that magic one million miles. I think someone is over exaggerating.
 
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Guys, please behave yourselves.

This really wasn't a thread for petrol vs diesel at all. Please start a new one if you must continue on it.

I personally couldn't care less about V6s and 0-60 in 3.11s, in fact a good way to start collecting speeding fines. What I need is a sensible car that does 0-60 in those average 11s or whatever, but is stable, has plenty low end torque, goes smoothly uphill, and has a bit in reserve for lane changes, etc. Diesel is better here. I DON'T want a jumpy racer boy car so please keep your V6 to yourself.

Seat Leon or alike is really not a car for me. I've driven one a couple times, and no I wouldn't have it. The handling is too sensitive, and in fact chaotic, while rear visibility is a clear downgrade from A-class. The rear seats are a joke, it would have been a good 2-seater, but now they've just recked the boot space. I think I would much much rather buy a VW Transporter diesel van.

MORE comments about the cars considered for purchase please.
 
daugirdas said:
I personally couldn't care less about V6s and 0-60 in 3.11s, in fact a good way to start collecting speeding fines. What I need is a sensible car that does 0-60 in those average 11s or whatever, but is stable, has plenty low end torque, goes smoothly uphill, and has a bit in reserve for lane changes, etc. Diesel is better here. I DON'T want a jumpy racer boy car so please keep your V6 to yourself..
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A petrol car can do all of those things and return good economy, yes the tax won't be £35 a year but then you don't have the risk of expensive ancillaries failing or suffering from fizzy blood at traffic lights. Hell even a 1.6 petrol Focus will do all of the above. No one is telling you to buy a 50k twin turbo knob extension, just presenting to you alternatives.

I think most are the problems in this thread are caused by tetchy diesel owners trying convince everyone that petrol cars are slow, do 10 to the gallon and can't go up hills because they don't have a million newton metres of torque thundering around in the gearbox doing sod all.
 
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Firstly, I was using my V6 to illustrate a point about motorway economy. Please read the context of posts properly before launching into your tirade. I'm not suggesting you buy one. I'm merely suggesting that you think before you blindly buy a diesel. I in fact would rather have a smoother petrol engine over an equivalent diesel, even if the 0-60 figure is slower. There's more to a car's performance and driveability than headline figures.

Secondly, if you don't want people's opinions, don't post on a public internet forum.

Lastly, buy the Superb, if it must be from the above list.
 
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daugirdas said:
.....Seat Leon or alike is really not a car for me. I've driven one a couple times, and no I wouldn't have it. The handling is too sensitive, and in fact chaotic, while rear visibility is a clear downgrade from A-class. The rear seats are a joke, it would have been a good 2-seater, .....
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...obviously you drove a different Leon to me :lol:

I take it your looking at that exec/rep-sized car (as suggested in the poll) - what about Volvo S/V40 or even the 99-05 Passat? Seems to be a good selection around, although it depends on what you want to buy in terms of mileage.... 70-90k should be no problem for the deisels, although you may not want one with that kind of usage. :)

Mazda 6 maybe?
 
Janesy B said:
A petrol car can do all of those things and return good economy, yes the tax won't be £35 a year but then you don't have the risk of expensive ancillaries failing or suffering from fizzy blood at traffic lights.
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I really don't know what you by that. I run a diesel A-class, and it is smooth, but a bit noisy (which is not so bad as Radio 1 :gag:). Acceleration is easily as good and better as most other cars. You should try running a diesel too.

I've owned petrol and it was awful and very uneconomic. I've had rental NEW petrol and it was still dreadful at steady 70mph on motorway. 40MPG is total crap on motorway, I am not even discussing 35. 60-70 and we will talk.
 
hcanning said:
Secondly, if you don't want people's opinions, don't post on a public internet forum.
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I am sorry, where exactly did I ask about anything petrol related?
 
go vw group 1.9 tdi 130bhp and get it mapped drivability will be superb and driven correctly fuel economy can be 10-15% better than standard as already said the fabia vrs is an absolute cracking little car will map upto around 175-180 bhp for a couple houndred quid ,petrol and diesels now both use dual mass flywheels so you can get flywheel problems on both and petrol cars will not implode at 100,000 miles if maintained correctly
 
daugirdas said:
I am sorry, where exactly did I ask about anything petrol related?
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I'm sorry, where exactly did you state that no one must offer any opinion that deviates from your mindset?

Perhaps it was the "Any thoughts?" that invited it. That's just a hunch, mind you..

daugirdas said:
I really don't know what you by that. I run a diesel A-class, and it is smooth, but a bit noisy (which is not so bad as Radio 1 :gag:). Acceleration is easily as good and better as most other cars. You should try running a diesel too.

I've owned petrol and it was awful and very uneconomic. I've had rental NEW petrol and it was still dreadful at steady 70mph on motorway. 40MPG is total crap on motorway, I am not even discussing 35. 60-70 and we will talk.
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:bang:

Your opinion is so misguided it's not even funny, but I'm going to try and avoid dissecting every individual point.

How do you know your A Class is as fast as most other cars? I didn't realise everyone else on the roads is suddenly up for a race :|

I'll give you a clue. It isn't.

So you've owned one petrol car. What was it?


I'm glad we both agree as regards Radio 1, btw ;)
 
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daugirdas said:
I really don't know what you by that. I run a diesel A-class, and it is smooth, but a bit noisy (which is not so bad as Radio 1 :gag:). Acceleration is easily as good and better as most other cars. You should try running a diesel too.

I've owned petrol and it was awful and very uneconomic. I've had rental NEW petrol and it was still dreadful at steady 70mph on motorway. 40MPG is total crap on motorway, I am not even discussing 35. 60-70 and we will talk.
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I do 7000 miles a year, a diesel does not make for significant savings compared to the increased purchased cost and higher repair costs. I purchase cars based on total cost of ownership and potential repair costs, not chasing 70 mpg (which many diesels can't achieve bar the small 3 cyl diesels). Also I'd rather chew on bricks than own a diesel car.

As for my car, it's 8 years old, will sit at a steady 70mph (give or take 10% ;) and is comfortable, it also does 0-60 in 10 seconds which I think sits in your realm of acceptability. I think hcanning is trying to highlight the downsides to diesel and help you realise that although diesels are more economical, they are more expensive to purchase, more likely to break and more expensive to repair if things do go wrong. If the fuel savings are significant then brilliant, go for it.
 
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Like stated somewhere else, for a high (50+mpg) petrol you're either looking at one of the new(ish) ones that are designed to compete against deisels, or you'll have to go Fiesta-sized to get anywhere near.

Astra Estate (the last version... mid-2000s) might be a good call - a mate has just swapped for the new version but before he had a 1.9 CDTi that was more than pokey enough for hills, cruised lovely on the A14 from Peterboro' to Rugby and returned 50mpg+. Space-wise it was top. Not bad spec either, think it was an EXclusive so had sat-nav, air con, leather etc.

You don't do many miles per year so a diesel might not actually save you any more money unless you're doing a straight swap and the cost-to-change is low :thumbs:
 
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Janesy B said:
Come on, lets not compare modern petrol engines to the boat anchor in a mini. That problem went away in the 80s/90s.



So even at an extremely generous average speed of 30 mph that works out to be 3.5 years continuously behind the wheel for that magic one million miles. I think someone is over exaggerating.
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Its a 6 yr old octavia and is used 24 hrs a day. Airport taxi.
 
Wow. I can't believe people will try to stir up arguments about everything!

I drive a diesel, always have, love it but don't have anything against petrol cars!

At NO point did any of the pro-diesel people say they were faster, quieter or the only vehicles capable of going up hills!

God almighty pipe down!!!

To the OP sorry I can't give any advice on the cars you list, I've owned two 2.0l tdi VWs and an audi and they have been great. My audi is 130bhp and plenty fast enough.
 
andybod said:
go vw group 1.9 tdi 130bhp and get it mapped drivability will be superb and driven correctly fuel economy can be 10-15% better than standard as already said the fabia vrs is an absolute cracking little car will map upto around 175-180 bhp for a couple houndred quid ,petrol and diesels now both use dual mass flywheels so you can get flywheel problems on both and petrol cars will not implode at 100,000 miles if maintained correctly
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Thanks, I will have to be super careful with all the tech inside. I am planning to force a garage inspection before parting with cash. Flywheel = £300? At least in B'ham, Bristol more like £1000.

Somehow, I can't find any 2004+ Octavia 1.9 130bhp, only 105, or 2.0 140. For some reasons, I can't consider pre-2004 model. Superb is 1.9 130 is a choice - but how is it different from Octavia?
Fabia 2008+ happily which I can't afford, pre 08 are a bit too much on the small/low side.

I'd go for passat, but they are more pricey and more costly insurance, and apparently are the same as Skodas.

Mazda 6 and Volvo S40 - maybe - do they have PSA / FORD engine? PSA sounds risky in my books.

Why estate / hatch? - apparently they offer more space, can transport things when needed, are safer, much easier to maintain/repair (no need to remove engine for minor work), easy to reach things in the bonnet, etc.
 
The Superb is bigger, more refined and more spacious. The Octavia is built on the Golf platform, which is more of a small/mid-sized hatch than a full-size executive/family car. You simply get more for your money.

The Volvo S40 - same story. It's based on a Focus. No bad thing of course, but it'll just mean less refinement and comfort. The old one is even worse as it's based on a Mitsubishi Carisma which is, well, not charismatic in the slightest (read: crap).
 
I have a mazda 6, although not a diesel and I really like it. Loads of room and all the toys.
 
daizylindsay said:
Wow. I can't believe people will try to stir up arguments about everything!

I drive a diesel, always have, love it but don't have anything against petrol cars!

At NO point did any of the pro-diesel people say they were faster, quieter or the only vehicles capable of going up hills!

God almighty pipe down!!!

To the OP sorry I can't give any advice on the cars you list, I've owned two 2.0l tdi VWs and an audi and they have been great. My audi is 130bhp and plenty fast enough.
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I drive a diesel and I also have a 5.5 v8 merc they both have their place.

Maybe this thread should be on pistonheads
 
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daugirdas said:
Thanks, I will have to be super careful with all the tech inside. I am planning to force a garage inspection before parting with cash. Flywheel = £300? At least in B'ham, Bristol more like £1000.

Somehow, I can't find any 2004+ Octavia 1.9 130bhp, only 105, or 2.0 140. For some reasons, I can't consider pre-2004 model. Superb is 1.9 130 is a choice - but how is it different from Octavia?
Fabia 2008+ happily which I can't afford, pre 08 are a bit too much on the small/low side.

I'd go for passat, but they are more pricey and more costly insurance, and apparently are the same as Skodas.

Mazda 6 and Volvo S40 - maybe - do they have PSA / FORD engine? PSA sounds risky in my books.

Why estate / hatch? - apparently they offer more space, can transport things when needed, are safer, much easier to maintain/repair (no need to remove engine for minor work), easy to reach things in the bonnet, etc.
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I've just gone to a saloon from a hatch and it taking soem getting used to and I'm sure I'lll miss the bigger rear opening, but I've shoehorned my fishing gear into saloons before and I needed comfort so went Volvo. Can see why hatchbacks appeal though - four doors, a hatch, lots of room, especially with the back seats dropped. Skoda Superb is a saloon BTW so although massively roomy (was a consideration for me before the S60) you do have that boot height limitation

RE: Passats - all VAG cars have many similarities and many are based on the same underpinnings. The old Passat Highline estates were very highly regarded by some mates of mine who used to to do 20K+ miles a year fishing. Good level of kit, oodles of spaces and solid, reliable mechanics.

As for hatches being easier to maintain..... I'm not so sure about that - depends how much mechanics is crammed in to certain spaces. Cars are what they are - sometimes they are an easy fix, sometimes they're not :)

As for repair stuff - just find a good specialist. I used the local SEAT dealer at first for servicing and what not but they were sooo expensive. Ended up using a VAG specialist a mile away who was a former mechanic at the dealers i used and he was probably 40 per cent cheaper overall using the same parts and to a high standard. :)
 
hcanning said:
How do you know your A Class is as fast as most other cars? I didn't realise everyone else on the roads is suddenly up for a race :|

I'll give you a clue. It isn't.

So you've owned one petrol car. What was it?


I'm glad we both agree as regards Radio 1, btw ;)
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Well, A-class 1.7CDI has good figures on paper, and then you can see all those corsas and fiestas (well over 50% of all cars to be fair) half a mile behind after pulling gently from the traffic lights. I am not a racer boy and don't get involved in road rage of any kind, but if I need to accelerate that extra 10mph, press the throttle, give it a second, and its' done.

Uphill driving is a very different story. Bristol is not in the midlands or surrey. It is extremely hilly round here, and that is killing everything in the car from the engine to the gearbox. Petrols simply have lower torque, need higher revs, and aren't built as strongly. I am sure most cars are fully adequate for Birmingham, but South West is absolutely nothing like it - a bit like the rural Peak district if you like.


Petrol cars I've used:
Clio 1.2 owned for a year
Rental Toyota Yaris 1.3
Rental Seat LEON 1.2 TSI - an absolute pincale of engineering of petrol engines, when it comes to power and economy compromise.

Well all three were not very economic. Yaris and Clio were dreadful in fact. LEON did 40mpg on m'way...

Surely, 1.8 petrol will drink more. IF driven uphill it will drink much more.

Simple calculation tells me, I've got £700 headstart with diesel based on 10k fuel costs, +£100 on tax. That's £800 in a year. I don't think 2004 petrol will be much cheaper to purchase, but won't sell any better at a later date either: draw. Then it is all homework and maintenance to get a reliable one. Both can land a nasty bill. New set of tires, exhaust, alternator, battery, engine, gearbox, you name it. That's what I want to get right this time.
 
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