What brand studio lighting kit? Decision Made!

[Mirus Lux]

Currently sizing up a 2 light studio flash set up for home portraits, child photography etc. There are 4 main contenders in my sub £400 budget as far as I can tell:

Elinchrom D-lite 400w
Lastolite Lumen8 sv 400
Elemental Trinity 250w
Lencarta Smartflash 200w

Now I am thinking a kit with an umbrella and a softbox, as well as value for money I need something that will last so things like build quality, reliability and warranty matter. I gave read lastolite need sending to them for bulb replacement which seems pants but I don't want to discount them just on that .


Anyone used any kits or got advice to offer?

 

[PeteMo]

As I've suggested in other threads, a single Lencarta Smartflash & a folding softbox would be a very good starting point. That's what I decided on and so far I'm pleased with my choice.

I can't speak of the others but I'm sure they are also more than suitable for what you need.

Cheers.

 

[Garry Edwards]

You won't go wrong with either the Elinchrom d-lites or the Lencarta SmartFlash, but you'll spend a lot less on modifiers if you go with the Lencarta.

The same question gets asked all the time, including this thread which includes comments about the Lumen 8.

I don't comment on other firms selling lights, but there are plenty of threads about Elemental if you want to read them.
**comment removed**

 

[Mirus Lux]

Well that removes elemental from the choices....!

 

[itsdavedotnet]

Well that's a new way of 'saying nothing about them'...

 

[photo si]

I have three Lastolite Lumen8 400w, two with umbrellas, the other with a 60cm soft box. Came with air damped stands, trigger and three decent holdalls.
They have been in constant use in my studio since about March. Really pleased with them. Currently about £580 for the lot.

 

[Mirus Lux]

Well that's a new way of 'saying nothing about them'...

I guess so!

 

[Mirus Lux]

I have three Lastolite Lumen8 400w, two with umbrellas, the other with a 60cm soft box. Came with air damped stands, trigger and three decent holdalls.
They have been in constant use in my studio since about March. Really pleased with them. Currently about £580 for the lot.

Cheers for this. How portable are they have heard rumours about issues with over heating and not being able to replace bulbs but I am guessing you haven't had these issues...

 

[Garry Edwards]

Well that's a new way of 'saying nothing about them'...

I just pointed the OP to a thread in which other people had things to say about them (and about the person who owns the business, and where the owner of the business said a great deal himself that other people were able to comment on)
People can read these things and decide for themselves, I've said nothing about them.

Moving on...
You'll always get different opinions about the same products from different people. Sometimes, people say things based on their personal experience and needs, which may be very different to the experience and needs of other people. For example, people who are only ever going to take shots using umbrellas may not care about the availability or cost of light shaping tools, they may in fact be happy with the very cheapest flash heads, with fixed reflectors. In fact, they may be happy with hotshoe flashes - but people who understand light are far more likely to consider the light shapers to be at least as important as the lights themselves.

The same with fan cooling. If a head isn't fan cooled it can be a major problem for someone who uses fresnel spots, honeycombs and similar, and/or who gives the lights a lot of use, or who needs to have powerful modelling lamps - but someone who only uses umbrellas or softboxes and who only uses their lights for a few minutes at a time, may not see what the fuss is about because, in their situation, the lights are unlikely to blow up or switch themselves off because they've overheated.

Colour temperature and flash energy consistency are good ones too. Many of us can spot a colour shift of 100K but there are lights out there that can shift 1000K - and people STILL say that they're great And the same lights can vary in power by up to 120% from one pop to the next - and the owners don't even seem to notice, let alone feel that it matters...

The same with weight. I like my equipment to be strongly built and able to take the knocks. And I wouldn't put expensive flash heads on top of flimsy stands, etc. But then other people carry my equipment for me, people who need to carry it themselves may be more worried about size and weight than toughness.

 

[photo si]

Cheers for this. How portable are they have heard rumours about issues with over heating and not being able to replace bulbs but I am guessing you haven't had these issues...

Very portable, yesterday I took them in their three padded holdalls to a soft play centre.

Was fully booked from 9:30 - 1:30 then 3:30-5:30. Being as it was toddlers running around like loonies I was shooting constantly to make sure there were some good shots of each child. Two lights with brollies shining through my White muslin backdrop, one out front with softbox. All running nearly full power as using fast shutter and small aperture.

No overheating issues, quick check on Photoshop and colours look consistent.

Modelling lights on full power the whole time. (didn't need to be, but can be seen through the muslin otherwise people think there is only one light out front)!

Lamps should have quite a long life so the issue of sending off is not such an issue in my opinion.

Plenty of modifiers about as they use the bowens fitting.

Don't know why everyone on here seems to be so down on them!
Cheers
Si

 

[Triggaaar]

I don't comment on other firms selling lights, but there are plenty of threads about Elemental if you want to read them. This one is probably the most helpful

That thread isn't the most helpful to the potential customers here, it is just the most helpful from your persepctive of encouraging people to buy your products as opposed to Elemental. And you do/have commented on Elemental before, in your own way.

Well that removes elemental from the choices....!

I wouldn't remove them as a choice, they sell very good units and I've found their customer service to be excellent.

 

[photo si]

Hadn't seen the 'Lencarta vs Elemental' thread before. Wow!

Out of interest and transparency for the good of all users of this forum, how much do lencarta (including it's 'employees' such as Garry etc) pay the forum per year?

It just seems that promoting one company and banning the other on the strength of the above mentioned thread seems harsh and unfair. Maybe there's a lot more I'm unaware of, but it now puts doubt into my mind about the impartiality of the forum admins with regards to products.
Hopefully you can reassure us that there is no bias?

 

[Triggaaar]

Out of interest and transparency for the good of all users of this forum, how much do lencarta (including it's 'employees' such as Garry etc) pay the forum per year?

It doesn't really matter how much does it. They pay to advertise here, and that's what they do, and Garry promotes his products. If you search this forum for threads with 'elemental' in the title, you'll see a few relevant threads. I don't think either company came out looking great. If buying, just try to look beyond that and find indepenant reviews to help you decide.

It just seems that promoting one company and banning the other on the strength of the above mentioned thread seems harsh and unfair.

I don't think it was that simple. Admin say that Elemental had tried to flout the rules on advertising etc, and it's their rules. We just have to try and make our own minds up.

it now puts doubt into my mind about the impartiality of the forum admins with regards to products.
Hopefully you can reassure us that there is no bias?

You don't really need that reassurance. When someone recommends a product, see who that recommendation is from and take that into account. Most people here are obviously not admin. Lencarta will have more fans here due to their presence on the forum, so take that into account too.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Hadn't seen the 'Lencarta vs Elemental' thread before. Wow!

Out of interest and transparency for the good of all users of this forum, how much do lencarta (including it's 'employees' such as Garry etc) pay the forum per year?

It just seems that promoting one company and banning the other on the strength of the above mentioned thread seems harsh and unfair. Maybe there's a lot more I'm unaware of, but it now puts doubt into my mind about the impartiality of the forum admins with regards to products.
Hopefully you can reassure us that there is no bias?

I'm not an employee.
Both Lencarta and I (trading as Photolearn) pay to advertise on this forum, and what we get for it is a banner advert and the right to display a link in the signature. That's it, as far as benefits go.

I can also link to products if they are relevant and in reply to a question, just as other users can.

Obviously neither I nor any other advertiser has any say in who is or is not allowed to be an advertiser, that's a matter between the admins, who own the site, and the advertisers themselves.

As for one particular business being banned from the site, from looking around TP generally it's pretty obvious to me that they are not the only ones to be banned. You will see from the thread I linked to that there were threats of various kinds made against TP, Lencarta and myself, and claims that solicitors' letters that had not been sent had been sent, and so on. And, unknown to me, it seems that that particular business is believed by TP to have made a number of spam posts under false names. Maybe that's where the 'bias' comes from, but that's just a guess on my part, only the site admins know why they won't have any dealings with that particular business or person, and they may or may not wish to share it.

All that I can say is that I have no influence, nor do I wish to, and I don't know any more about it than anyone else.

I just get on with being me. I answer questions where I feel that I have something to offer, sometimes that involves recommending Lencarta, sometimes it involves recommending a different manufacturer and sometimes it's all about technique and equipment doesn't come into it. People can be as cynical as the like, it doesn't matter to me because I know who I am, what I do and why.

 

[Triggaaar]

I'm not an employee.
Both Lencarta and I

I think that's misleading. It suggests that you have little to do with Lencarta.

and what we get for it is a banner advert and the right to display a link in the signature. That's it, as far as benefits go.

I don't think that's correct is it? You can promote your products in threads and post links, while I don't believe other manufacturers can do the same, unless they pay.

You will see from the thread I linked to that there were threats of various kinds made against TP, Lencarta and myself, and claims that solicitors' letters that had not been sent had been sent, and so on.

I don't really understand why you are going over this old ground again. You are making allegations and giving your side of the story in a thread that has nothing to do with what happened. Someone has simply asked forum members what they think of a few brands, and here you are throwing mud about.

 

[JonathanRyan]

Yeah, there's no way this ends well.

 

[Garry Edwards]

I think that's misleading. It suggests that you have little to do with Lencarta.

I say that I'm not an employee because I'm not an employee. It doesn't suggest that I have little to do with Lencarta, it's clear from the words "Advertiser, Lencarta customer services" under my name in every post that I'm connected with Lencarta.

Both Lencarta and I

I make that distinction because I don't own the Company and don't make any decisions

I don't think that's correct is it? You can promote your products in threads and post links, while I don't believe other manufacturers can do the same, unless they pay.

I (or Lencarta) can promote products/services by creating threads about them, with the prior approval of the admins. I believe that other manufacturers can do the same, there have been a few threads recently by someone offering training workshops, and as far as I recall he isn't an advertiser.

I don't really understand why you are going over this old ground again. You are making allegations and giving your side of the story in a thread that has nothing to do with what happened. Someone has simply asked forum members what they think of a few brands, and here you are throwing mud about.

No, I simply linked to a couple of threads. One was to a very similar question a few days ago, and one was to the thread that you seem to be complaining about me linking to. From memory, someone in that thread actually said that he was happy with their products/service.

As with all other forum answers that I give, I just provide the info. People can like or not, make use of it or ignore it, accept it at face value or ascribe their own motives to it. I really don't care.

 

[Mirus Lux]

Before this thread goes way off track, I have done quite a bit of research and I am well aware of Gary's position. It is clear he is an advertiser so obviously will push lencarta. However his first comment does also support the DLites and simply points out the cost of modifiers which is an important consideration for me.

To me such a strong presence and from what I can see a large amount of technical knowledge is a very good thing from a customer perspective.

I am in a position to make up my own mind and when spending what to me is a large amount of money would obviously take advice from various areas and actually try out the kit too.

For me the thread re elemental was useful and following other research supported my opinion that they are a company I personally would not have confidence in dealing with. This decision was not made on Garys comments alone.

The comments re lastolite likewise are very helpful and the video tutorials by Mark Cleghorn and photosi comments also provide confidence. I have used items of lastolite and always been happy. My concern is cost of replacing bulbs ie not just the bulb but also sending the item to them seems excessive and if it occcurs on a shoot you are stuffed!

Question to Gary could lencarta modifiers be used in the Dlites theoretically?

 

[Triggaaar]

I say that I'm not an employee because I'm not an employee.
...
I make that distinction because I don't own the Company and don't make any decisions

It seems unclear because you say don't own (any part of) them, and that you are not an employee, yet you do get paid by them.

It doesn't suggest that I have little to do with Lencarta, it's clear from the words "Advertiser, Lencarta customer services" under my name

That's cool, regardless of what your role is, you're linked with them.

I (or Lencarta) can promote products/services by creating threads about them, with the prior approval of the admins. I believe that other manufacturers can do the same, there have been a few threads recently by someone offering training workshops, and as far as I recall he isn't an advertiser.

I believe that admin assess each case, and some are allowed to make the odd offer on the forum. I don't think manufacturers are allowed to promote their products in every thread that discusses their products unless they are paying for the privelage (no doubt admin will put me right if that's wrong). So, as I said, this is not correct: "what we get for it is a banner advert and the right to display a link in the signature. That's it, as far as benefits go."

No, I simply linked to a couple of threads.

My personal view is that advertisors here should just reply to threads like this highlighting the positives of their products, and leave it at that (regarding competitors). You chose to post a link to a thread that makes your competitor look bad, bad enough that the OP immediately crossed that brand off of their wish list. I'm sure there are threads here where people have made some criticisms of all brands, so would it be ok if Elemental kept a record of those threads and replied to the OP with a couple of links to threads that made Lencarta seem like a bad choice? I personally don't think that would be ok, and I don't think you should be doing so either.

 

[Mirus Lux]

Trigaar it seems some people have an issue on various thread with Gary and Lencarta and the way he provides advice.

It clearly states he is an advertiser and as a potential customer I note that. Sure highlighting threads about other companies is positive for them, however the other company was given the option to operate legitimately and didn't.

If you would like to post some threads that are negative about lencarta I will take those into consideration along with other information I know about the company to make a balanced choice.

My reply about removing elemental may have seemed knee jerkish but it wasn't.

 

[JonathanRyan]

Question to Gary could lencarta modifiers be used in the Dlites theoretically?

Theoretically yes.

For example you cold buy this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bowens-S-...ltDomain_3&hash=item3cbd76ec86#ht_2158wt_1232 (though some mods are very sensitive where they sit WRT the tube and I can see that not working for all/many mods).

Or you could do this http://jrphotography.com.au/blog/bowens-to-elinchrom-speedring-conversion

Realistically the situation isn't as bad as it used to be. Basically the Ely fit is patented. So you either buy from Ely, from somebody who has licensed the mount or from somebody who isn't bothered by intellectual property There are plenty of the latter on eBay.

But really if you want a quality softbox etc for an Ely they you're probably going to buy from Elinchrom and they ain't cheap. If you want a quality box for a Bowens fit light there are more companies to choose from. And with choice price tends to decrease.

 

[Triggaaar]

If you would like to post some threads that are negative about lencarta I will take those into consideration along with other information I know about the company to make a balanced choice.

No, I don't have anything against their products, so for me to search out negative threads wouldn't be fair. But when one of the members here does feel compelled to highlight a negative thread about any manufacturer, I don't think that member should be a competitor, that's all.

 

[Mirus Lux]

Cheers for that. Now I know there is no way I can afford bowens but the wider availability of accessories is an important consideration. I don't really want to be mucking around with adapters, I just want it to work, so I will look at the various costs for elinchrom v bowen s fit

Thanks for the pointer!

 

[Mirus Lux]

Just had a useful conversation with Lastolite their kit has a 2 yr warranty and they state in 5 years it is very rare for a flash bulb to go, but if it does it would be £50 to replace not including shipping to them.

Anyone have any idea how much it costs to replace a Lencarta or Elinchrom bulb?

 

[JonathanRyan]

I honestly wouldn't worry too much about bulbs with any of those makes. There are a couple of notorious lights that cost a fortune to fix but most are fairly reasonable.

IIRC I've never replaced a tube because it's worn out. It has always been impact damage They are generally rated to 10s or 100s of thousands of pops.

Lencarta a bit cheaper than Lastolite - Elinchrom a bit more. Both DIY in 5 mins.

http://www.lencarta.com/lighting-store/spares
http://www.theflashcentre.com/spare-parts-c334.html

But it's not like you're replacing them every week If anything the Ely mount makes clumsy damage to the tube while changing mods IMO slightly less likely than other makes.

 

[wippers]

My personal view is that advertisors here should just reply to threads like this highlighting the positives of their products, and leave it at that (regarding competitors). You chose to post a link to a thread that makes your competitor look bad, bad enough that the OP immediately crossed that brand off of their wish list.

I have to say that I agree with Triggaaar here. Just promote your brand. The link is unecessary. :nono:

To address the balance and for what it's worth, I bought an Elemental set-up a couple of years ago and have found both the service and quality superb. Nothing has gone "bang" and everything works perfectly well. The build quality is excellent and I had no problems getting advice on which lighting etc would best suit both my budget and requirements. I was new to studio lighting at the time and had little knowledge.

My decision was made based upon a review on TP from someone who had just purchased from Elemental. I am not an employee of Elemental.


Gareth

 

[Garry Edwards]

Just had a useful conversation with Lastolite their kit has a 2 yr warranty and they state in 5 years it is very rare for a flash bulb to go, but if it does it would be £50 to replace not including shipping to them.

Anyone have any idea how much it costs to replace a Lencarta or Elinchrom bulb?

All of the various Lencarta flash tubes are user changeable and the prices are here, the prices range from £40-£60. I expect you'll find the Elinchrom prices on their website.

Personally I don't like flash tubes that aren't user changeable, partly because if they do need changing it becomes expensive and inconvenient, and partly because they plug-in flash tubes seem to survive shocks much better - they often bounce out instead of breaking. I did have one flash tube (not user changeable) break once, the manufacturers wanted £287.50 to replace it
But, generally they don't usually fail unless they are physically damaged. Depending on the quality of the tube, it's reasonable to expect at least 50,000 perfect flashes with maybe another 50,000 increasingly discoloured and reduced power ones before the tube fails - and the discolouration and power loss isn't usually critical.

 

[Mirus Lux]

That's great thanks for those links. Hmmm choices, choices!

 

[Mirus Lux]

Gary you seem to know a lot about the lencarta gear a few questions.

Do the smartflash have modelling light modes ie can the be switched off etc, what is a slave cell? I understand the beep can't be switched off do they have an audible recharge confirmation or is there a ready light? What's a fresnel spot and why can't it be used? Do they gave auto dump and what does this do? Do they have umbrella fittings and do they come with spare fuses? Phew! Sorry!

 

[Garry Edwards]

Yes, they have a modelling lamp, it's 150 watts which is plenty for most people. However, a 250 watt lamp can also be used. The modelling lamp isn't proportional, it's either on or off

A slave cell is a little sensor (placed on the top of the head) that 'sees' the flash from another head and then fires instantaneously. It can be switched off if required.

The beep can't be switched off on the SmartFlash but is pretty quiet and unobtrusive. The beep is the audible recharge confirmation.

A fresnel (pronounced frennel) spot is an attachment that produces a bright light in the centre, becoming less light towards the edges, in collumated rings. It's used widely in fashion photography, stage photography and similar - in fact its origin is in stage lighting. It can't be used easily with the SmartFlash because the swivelling mechanism and stand fitting gets in the way and fouls the back/forward focus/light spread adjustment on the fresnel spot. But remove 2 screws holding on the mechanism and it will work - but tbh 200Ws, although fine for most uses, isn't a lot when it's going through any kind of spotlight.

Auto dumping reduces the power when the power is turned down and no, it doesn't have it. Many flash heads do but personally I always dump the power manually when reducing power - I trust my finger on a button much more than electronic circuitry

Yes, it has an umbrella fitting and will take any normal 8mm umbrella. It will also take 7mm.

Yes, there is a spare fuse behind the main fuse, and there are plenty in stock, although you will probably never need one.

 

[photo si]

I'm surprised there's no auto dump on the Lencarta. Seems such a basic feature.
Also the lack of proportional modeling lamp would irritate me. Again it seems such a basic thing.
The beep would really annoy me! Glad I can turn mine off.

 

[Mirus Lux]

Cheers Gary for that. I don't think I will need the fresnel accessory anytime soon (suddenly saw the link on the site too!) Good info re the fuses thanks.

So as far as i understand it I can trigger by either radio triggers such as the lencarta, yongnuo or other wireless trigger, or by using a sync lead which is provided and goes to one light which then optically triggers the other light, is that right? Which would be a more reliable way of firing the flashes?

When using the flashes should I use a special sort of extension lead or something if using them in a client home ie to protect their home circuit (and my gear!)? Also I have public liability but if my kit affected their home electrics do I need some other form of insurance to protect me?

Another question about future use is there a way I could use the smartflash out on location with a portable power pack or similar?

 

[Mirus Lux]

I'm surprised there's no auto dump on the Lencarta. Seems such a basic feature.
Also the lack of proportional modeling lamp would irritate me. Again it seems such a basic thing.
The beep would really annoy me! Glad I can turn mine off.

I know what you are thinking Si but then it is easily cleared by a quick test flash. I thought the lastolite would have fans. Do you ever have any issues with them over heating? Seen a few reviews saying occasionally they don't fire on low power too..

 

[Triggaaar]

I'm surprised there's no auto dump on the Lencarta. Seems such a basic feature.
Also the lack of proportional modeling lamp would irritate me. Again it seems such a basic thing.
The beep would really annoy me! Glad I can turn mine off.

Likewise with all of the above. I like the auto dump feature, there's just no need to have to think about it, you have plenty on your mind when working so it's better to have the auto dump feature, and I see no reason not to trust the electronics. The proportional lamp is useful, but not essential. And being able to turn the beep off is a must, one beep after each shot is enough for me, I don't want four beeps after every shot (ie, with 4 lights I turn at least 3 beeps off).

I know what you are thinking Si but then it is easily cleared by a quick test flash.

Yes it is, but who wants to have to do that every time you reduce the output, when some flashes do it for you? If it means saving money on a cheaper flash, fair enough, but if all else was equal you'd be better with a flash that auto dumps.

 

[JonathanRyan]

Likewise with all of the above. I like the auto dump feature, there's just no need to have to think about it, you have plenty on your mind when working so it's better to have the auto dump feature

Then pay the extra money.

It's really simple. You're looking at an entry level light and wishing it had all the bells and whistles on a more expensive one. None of those bits cost much to add to the light but (1) in total they do (2) it's called differentiation. If your entry level has everything on it then (1) it costs more and (2) you won't sell the more expensive ones.

So when you buy a basic car you might decide you want the cup holder from the "L" model or the built in CD player to a little light that comes on when the washer fluid is empty or more seriously curtain airbags and ISOfix. Do you (a) buy a car within your budget (b) decide that in fact those extras matter enough to you that you will pay for the L or (c) go and bitch about it on a forum and say "well xxx company sucks because they don't lemon scent their ash tray".

I've used, demonstrated and advised on Smartflash for a while now (though to be clear - I'm not speaking on behalf of Lencarta or anybody else now - this is all me....) and I didn't know until 10 mins ago that they didn't have auto dump. Even on high end lights I always dump the power when turning them down and expect assistants to do the same. It's faster and more accurate. Other people work differently. If you want a feature on a light then choose one that's got it.

Bottom line: I stood at Focus for 3 days talking to people about flash (and yes, being paid by Lencarta). I really struggled to think of reasons that most hobbyist users should pay the extra for Elite Pros.

[Warning: I may be in a bad mood as I type this - the morning drive cost an extra £300 this morning due to a nail in the road. Could have cost me £120 but I chose extra features in my tyres and decided I was prepared to pay the extra for them.]

 

[Garry Edwards]

Cheers Gary for that. I don't think I will need the fresnel accessory anytime soon (suddenly saw the link on the site too!) Good info re the fuses thanks.

So as far as i understand it I can trigger by either radio triggers such as the lencarta, yongnuo or other wireless trigger, or by using a sync lead which is provided and goes to one light which then optically triggers the other light, is that right? Which would be a more reliable way of firing the flashes?

When using the flashes should I use a special sort of extension lead or something if using them in a client home ie to protect their home circuit (and my gear!)? Also I have public liability but if my kit affected their home electrics do I need some other form of insurance to protect me?

Another question about future use is there a way I could use the smartflash out on location with a portable power pack or similar?

Yes, a radio trigger (any) or the provided sync lead is all that's needed.
Radio triggers are easy and convenient and will work with any flash/camera combination (except for Minolta/Sony models that have their own proprietory hotshoe, they need an adapter). Sync leads are the 'old' way of doing it. They're a good backup method if your camera has a PC socket for the sync lead to plug into, and they're fine for still life photography - but radio triggers are much easier for any kind of people photography, where we don't want extra wires for people to trip over, or which can pull out of the camera connection.

I can't answer questions on insurance but I would guess that your business policy would cover the very low risk of your lights damaging someone else's property or vice versa.

Yes, you can plug the SmartFlash heads into one of the products that produce mains voltage power from a battery.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Then pay the extra money.

It's really simple. You're looking at an entry level light and wishing it had all the bells and whistles on a more expensive one. None of those bits cost much to add to the light but (1) in total they do (2) it's called differentiation. If your entry level has everything on it then (1) it costs more and (2) you won't sell the more expensive ones.

So when you buy a basic car you might decide you want the cup holder from the "L" model or the built in CD player to a little light that comes on when the washer fluid is empty or more seriously curtain airbags and ISOfix. Do you (a) buy a car within your budget (b) decide that in fact those extras matter enough to you that you will pay for the L or (c) go and bitch about it on a forum and say "well xxx company sucks because they don't lemon scent their ash tray".

I've used, demonstrated and advised on Smartflash for a while now (though to be clear - I'm not speaking on behalf of Lencarta or anybody else now - this is all me....) and I didn't know until 10 mins ago that they didn't have auto dump. Even on high end lights I always dump the power when turning them down and expect assistants to do the same. It's faster and more accurate. Other people work differently. If you want a feature on a light then choose one that's got it.

Bottom line: I stood at Focus for 3 days talking to people about flash (and yes, being paid by Lencarta). I really struggled to think of reasons that most hobbyist users should pay the extra for Elite Pros.

[Warning: I may be in a bad mood as I type this - the morning drive cost an extra £300 this morning due to a nail in the road. Could have cost me £120 but I chose extra features in my tyres and decided I was prepared to pay the extra for them.]

I think that Jonathan's bad luck is good example - runflat tyres may be important to some people but they're expensive to replace. They are also very hard and give poor grip on wet grass

I also have lights of another brand that do have auto dumping - but like Jonathan I never rely on it, it's just habit (and good practice) to press the magic test button to dump the flash when reducing power. There are basically 2 different engineering solutions to achieve auto dumping.
1. When you turn down the power the flash fires, dumping the excess power. This achieves exactly the same result as firing the flash manually.
2. When you turn down the power the excess energy is 'leaked'. This isn't instantaneous and I feel that it's unreliable. I'm told by an engineer that it also places extra strain on the capacitors.

The thing is, nobody is right and nobody is wrong because features that may be important to one person may not matter at all to someone else, and vice versa. Often, when someone is trying to decide which make or model (of anything) to buy, they can get confused by marketing bumph, which tries very hard to dress features up as real benefits. It's pretty tempting to assume that a product with 10 bullet points of features is better than one with just 3 - what matters to most people is performance, not features that masquerade as benefits.

As an example of good features coupled with poor performance, my Blackberry phone has an unbelievable number of ring tones, most of which are totally useless to me. I can assign different ring tones to different people in my address book of course, but if the bloody thing decides to change the ringtone all by itself that can be awkward - so I no longer answer the phone 'Hello love' without looking at the name when a certain assigned ringtone goes off, because it may have changed the ringtone to her ringtone

 

[Triggaaar]

[Warning: I may be in a bad mood as I type this - the morning drive cost an extra £300 this morning due to a nail in the road.

That warning belonged at the start of your email. I promise I didn't put the nail there.

Then pay the extra money.

It's really simple. You're looking at an entry level light and wishing it had all the bells and whistles on a more expensive one.

I'm not buying lights, I don't need to pay the extra and I'm not looking at one light wishing it had something another light has. I was simply commenting on features that some lights have, because that's what was being discussed. Like I said:

If it means saving money on a cheaper flash, fair enough, but if all else was equal you'd be better with a flash that auto dumps.

And that goes for other features too. If you're saving money, fair enough. But we don't need to make out that non of the features have any value.

 

[JonathanRyan]

Tyre update (I know you're all worried about me)....actually thinking about it, it was good luck. Just last night I was looking on the web for new tyres because I've scrubbed the front ones. Miraculously it was one of those that got a puncture £300 gets me two Sport Contact 3s.

And in a vague way to bring this back to topic.....I paid more for the Sport Contacts because I drive, um, quite fast and I also cover a lot of miles - they grip pretty well and last longer than most "sports" tyres. If my mate who almost never drives was buying tyres he'd probably go for budget ones because he'll sell the car before he wears a set out. My brother in law drives across the Snake Pass every day so has just paid an extra £100 per tyre to get winter tyres. When I drove a Chimaera then wet grip and stiff sidewalls was everything and I used SO2s even though they might only last several weeks. If I was in any doubt that I could change a tyre in less than 10 minutes then I'd have runflats - some times I need to get to places with very little leeway. Churches for example....

Choose what you want and buy that. If a feature is important to me I'll pay for it. If I won't pay for it then it can't be that important.

Re triggering: I generally use RF602s. Pretty reliable and cheap enough if you buy a pack that you have spare receivers. Usually I use one receiver and everything else on slaves but at the first hint of trouble I can whack extra receivers in. I don't like mains powered receivers because they are useless on battery powered lights.

 

[arad85]

I'm surprised there's no auto dump on the Lencarta. Seems such a basic feature.
Also the lack of proportional modeling lamp would irritate me. Again it seems such a basic thing.
The beep would really annoy me! Glad I can turn mine off.

Two of these features (proportional modelling and ability to turn off the beep) are available on the ElitePro models. It's why I have ElitePros over the SmartFlash as the beep would have driven me to distraction too.

As has been said above, you pay your money and make your choice (although that has always seemed the wrong way around as a saying to me - surely you make your choice before paying your money...)