what a plonker

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Just Dave said:
Everyones saying £5000 of kit its not he bought a computer and other perif, obviously he didnt have some of those in the car, so in reality he got a camera and a lens/flash nicked :shrug:
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I suppose he could have had 5ks worth of camera and lenses :shrug: but whether it was 5 grand or 5 hundred isnt really germane - this is supposed to be the freindliest photography forum on the net or some such.... and yet we have a thread about some poor bloke getting his gear nicked entitled 'what a plonker' :bang:

what next a set of shots from a car accident entitled - 'should have looked where you were going'

may be some nice shots of disabled people so we can take the p out of their misfortune too.

personally i think the OP should be throughly ashamed of himself , and the thread ought to be binned.
 
The comments of some in this thread are so self righteous it's verges on being pathetic :shake: it's really sad that people start calling someone names over a mistake, **** up error of judgement that they've made that they're having to live with :nono: I think this really shows the very worse of society when people sit on a forum judging people for this, I seriously hope the person being talked about in this thread isn't a member here :shrug:

Matt
MWHCVT
 
Some people must have a real nice view from up high on their perfect little pedistools.

He had finance, so what has no one heard of a business loan?

But yes mistakes happen, ive left a car unlocked with the door not actually shut before. Id be lying if I said I'd never forgotten to shut a house window or lock the front door. Poo happens. Some people need to wind their necks in rather than gloating otherwise they'll find themselves on the receiving end if something bad ever happens to them that could have been avoided.

/rant
 
agree with Pete and Matt

matt hope hes not a member or better still could give his side of the story

we arent infallible, I once though Id locked my car pushed the button, when I got back to it it was open :bang: luckily it was parked out side the visitor centre of our local reserve so they keep an eye out.

Also hows this,

a guy who I know from being around the reserve, well his car broke down, to cut it short I put my 400D and a 500mm lens attached in his boot, to give him a push start, brrrrm the car started and with a wave from the window he drove of, luckily he came back when he realised my cam and lens were in his boot, a full hour of that sinking feeling, Im ot thick , but misfortune can strike at any time. anyway thats why I feel for the poor guy who cant defend his misfortune on here
 
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joescrivens said:
If you read back I have already said that leaving a car unlocked is a mistake.

Travelling with £5k of uninsured gear at the same time whilst hou do that in my opinion is a choice. I don't see not insuring your equipment as a mistake. It's a choice. You either insure something or you don't. Simples.

And whether the insurance is void or not is irrelevant to me. The point that makes him a fool is the lack of insurance. Whether it would have saved him or not is up for debate but not having it at all is foolish.
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Joe, I will say only this:

A bad choice IS a mistake!

In this instance, he made the mistake of not putting his gear in the boot

In this instance he made the mistake of failing to lock his car

In this instance he DIDN'T make the MISTAKE of CHOOSING not to insure the gear as it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference.

He has paid for his mistakes with the loss of his gear

You posting

joescrivens said:
What a loser
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on an internet forum is of no help to him, is of no help to anyone else. In fact, all it does is to make you feel good about yourself.
 
hard lesson learnt it think, but i to think that its easy to sit here and slag the bloke off, but if it was a friend you would not be to fast to slag them off, at the end off the day the guys started out taking a chance, he obviuosly has no pl insurance but they maybe he could not afford £30 a month at the poin in time.
mistakes happen, and just hopefull next time he will take i little more time to think about it.
 
Maybe he had a Megane....

It's all very well being smug about locking your car but you are increasingly relying on dodgy electronics that can be hacked. Beckham had his posh car stolen as the central locking was compromised with a laptop. There have been quite a few cars that you could open without a key. Passats/golfs were famous for being discovered at airports with windows open. There are many cars you could open the boot with a good whack in the right place.

If there is no sign of the locks being forced you'd never get insurance to pay out even if you *did* lock your car.

PL insurance with a modest amount of eqiupment cover was all of £300 max for me. It's not worth not having. Yeah, he's a plonker for that.

Just because someone is daft enough not to lock their car does not give scum the right to steal from it though.
 
fabs said:
Joe, I will say only this:

A bad choice IS a mistake!

In this instance, he made the mistake of not putting his gear in the boot

In this instance he made the mistake of failing to lock his car

In this instance he DIDN'T make the MISTAKE of CHOOSING not to insure the gear as it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference.

He has paid for his mistakes with the loss of his gear
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a bad choice is a mistake? Ok so how about this bad choice:

A man drives to the pub on a Friday night, has 5 pints of ale and at midnight he calls a cab. The cab company tell him they have no cars to pick him up as they are too busy right now. He can wait till 2am or find his own way home. He decides to drive home and on the way he hits another person killing them.

Would you feel sorry for him? Did he accidentally drive home? Or did he CHOOSE to drive home under the influence of alcohol? Anyone who did this would get zero sympathy from me. It's not an accident, it's not a mistake, it's downright foolishness and he deserves to be punished for it.

And I know that someone is going to say that it's not the same thing, we're talking about lenses not someone's life, I realise this. But my point is the guy in question hasn't accidentally not insured his kit, he has CHOSEN not to. That's not accidental, that's a foolish judgement. It's not like he just bought it and hadn't got round to it. He's done at least one wedding with the kit.

What if he hadn't got round to insuring his car and he had a car accident killing another passenger? Whilst the car accident could be just that, he hasn't accidentally forgot to insure his car, he's been foolish.

fabs said:
You posting
on an internet forum is of no help to him, is of no help to anyone else. In fact, all it does is to make you feel good about yourself.
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I don't see how it is of harm to this fellow, he's not on this forum as far as I know so how does it even affect him?

I'll take back the loser comment as that's not in the spirit of the forum, but I'm not going to feel sorry for someone who makes a choice not to buy insurance. If it had happened a little differently and this story was about a guy who had his car stolen of equipment which was stored in the boot out of sight on his way to a job, but the insurance didn't cover it because he accidentally left his car open. I'd have some sympathy for sure.
 
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the blokes a knob for leaving his gear in a car , locked or unlocked , and Joe you're a ****** for driving the wrong way on the m5
 
joescrivens said:
a bad choice is a mistake? Ok so how about this bad choice:

A man drives to the pub on a Friday night, has 5 pints of ale and at midnight he calls a cab. The cab company tell him they have no cars to pick him up as they are too busy right now. He can wait till 2am or find his own way home. He decides to drive home and on the way he hits another person killing them.
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It's difficult to compare the two, one is him being punished for making a mistake, the other is someone else being punished.

However :

mis·take

   /mɪˈsteɪk/ Show Spelled [mi-steyk] Show IPA noun, verb, -took, -tak·en, -tak·ing.
noun 1.an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc.

2.a misunderstanding or misconception.



So, yes, in your example it was an error in judgement so it was a mistake.
 
Hmmm thinking'
There are some pretty vicious people on this forum, in particular in this thread.

I think quite a few are missing the point and using this thread to either score points or raise the ante.

I think in my own personal opinion yes he should have had insurance, albeit irrelevant as his car was unlocked. I don't think him not having insurance is stupid or anything else, he was just starting out in this field, because its unregulated, possibly never even knew he needed this.

Read through the last 4 pages with disgust to be honest, this forum is going from bad to worse with circling vultures who are very very quick to destroy the naive prey who make innocent genuine naive mistakes.
Think of that poor guy who is now paying for his naivety, it's killed his business right at the start, he is now paying a debt for something he doesn't own.
Think the OP should have chosen his opening words more carefully ie slating his shots, that's not very fair on someone who is starting out, we all have to start somewhere and a lot people don't know these forums exist, so for them it's even harder to crawl about in the unknown.


This forum needs people on every level, hope this vulturesc habit that keeps appearing gets stamped out soon
 
joescrivens said:
Ok.

Well we aren't going to change each others minds so no point going round in circles. I think anyone who makes a choice not to insure equipment is acting foolishly not making a "mistake" and you disagree. Not much else to say
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A long as you expect the same lack of empathy when you make mistakes, Joe.
 
srichards said:
Just because someone is daft enough not to lock their car does not give scum the right to steal from it though.
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out of everything that has been said and reading through over 50 posts, this for me is the one thing that hardly anyone has actually commented on!

Everyone seems happy to ridicule or stick up for the guy with their own opinions which is great and we all know crime is out there whether we like it or not, but more than anything, I feel sorry for the guy regardless of insurance or not, locking the car or not etc.

The fact that some t**t nicked it in the first place is the real issue for me! Like I said, I am not naive enough to think this doesn't happen, but a shame people would rather judge the victim!
 
cameradaft said:
....Read through the last 4 pages with disgust to be honest, this forum is going from bad to worse with circling vultures who are very very quick to destroy the naive prey who make innocent genuine naive mistakes.
Think of that poor guy who is now paying for his naivety, it's killed his business right at the start, he is now paying a debt for something he doesn't own.
Think the OP should have chosen his opening words more carefully ie slating his shots, that's not very fair on someone who is starting out, we all have to start somewhere and a lot people don't know these forums exist, so for them it's even harder to crawl about in the unknown.......
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Spot on.

Joe (scrivens) has admitted that the word 'loser' was the wrong choice (and what I had the beef with originally) so fair play to him doing that publicly, but nonetheless, these threads that kick off with opening gambits where someone is slagged off are getting more common and that's worrying because A) they can be tasteless (and pointless), and B) it shows the OPs the be very unsympathetic. The fact that in the start of this thread the OP also passed judgement on the guy's photographic skills (saying he could have done better with an instamatic) shows a smugness and obnoxiousness that is making me like TP less and less as this behaviour becomes more widespread.

I like a laugh like most people and I'll happily laugh at people's misfortunes on YBF, but in real life you have to take a step back and think what you'd feel like if your peers were mocking and deriding you. Just because it's done from behind a keyboard doesn't make it any less cutting - would these people say it to the guy's face? I doubt it.....
 
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Harvey_nikon said:
It's difficult to compare the two, one is him being punished for making a mistake, the other is someone else being punished.

However :

mis·take

   /mɪˈsteɪk/ Show Spelled [mi-steyk] Show IPA noun, verb, -took, -tak·en, -tak·ing.
noun 1.an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc.

2.a misunderstanding or misconception.



So, yes, in your example it was an error in judgement so it was a mistake.
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yeah you're right it is still a mistake. I guess thats not the word I mean. It's the accident part that i don't have empathy with. I personally dont think that someone who doesn't insure their equipment is doing so by accident. I think its a choice they have made.

I have little sympathy for someone who makes a foolish choice
 
The23rdman said:
A long as you expect the same lack of empathy when you make mistakes, Joe.
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if i didnt insure my gear and i lost it.

I would expect to receive no sympathy

i know the guy would have likely lost it anyway and like i said even if he had it packed hidden away out of sight I would have some sympathy for him. but to leave his gear in the car in plane sight for no reason and then do the accident bit - not for me.

as for everyone who is talking so much about malice and nastiness etc. I think you're all being a bit melodramatic to be honest :shrug:
 
Shame there's some self righteous people on here. I prefer to remember the time that when a disabled photographer fell from his chair and broke his camera, this forum rallied around and helped provided replacement kit. We didn't crow about his accident.
Everyone's human, therefore we make mistakes and bad decisions. It's what defines us as a race (and probably brings religion into the discussion). What we need to learn from this story is the lessons of kit insurance if you can't afford to replace it and hiding your stuff appropriately if leaving it.
 
a few years a go I lost a canon 30E and a 28-135 IS which I left on the passenger seat of my car while i nipped in to pay for fuel

was leaving it there the best idea i'd ever had ? - nope

did i make a mistake (in assessing that at a rural petrol station there wouldnt be a problem) - yep

Was I foolish in making that choice ? - you bet

But would i have been happy with a self righteous thread laughing at my misfortune - :bat: :boxer:

(and for the record the car was locked - some theiving scrote put the window in, grabbed it and drove off , and I was insured but they refused to pay because it was in an unattended vehicle)

These days i have a locking steel box built in under the passenger seat and have specifically cleared and confirmed in writing with the insurers that gear left there is covered.
 
big soft moose said:
But would i have been happy with a self righteous thread laughing at my misfortune - :bat: :boxer:
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theres a difference between laughing at you and not having any sympathy. I'm not laughing i just have no sympathy. I wouldn't have had sympathy for you then either.

I don't see where I have laughed once in this thread
 
joescrivens said:
theres a difference between laughing at you and not having any sympathy. I'm not laughing i just have no sympathy. I wouldn't have had sympathy for you then either.

I don't see where I have laughed once in this thread
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fair enough - but then you didnt start the thread .... titling it 'what a plonker' does implicitly say come and look at this prat and have a good giggle.

To be fair i wouldnt have expected sympathy - it was my own stupid fault (except is as much as it was really the fault of the theiving ****) and doesnt in that sense differ much from the time i killed a 10D while shooting from a RiB , or killed a pentax MZS rolling a floating hide over (the insurers paid out on the latter two though)

The thing is theres a difference between sympathy - feeling sorry for the guy, and empathy - being able to imagine how you would feel about this thread if you were in his place.

imo you and more particularly JSER seem particularly lacking in the latter
 
big soft moose said:
fair enough - but then you didnt start the thread .... titling it 'what a plonker' does implicitly say come and look at this prat and have a good giggle.

To be fair i wouldnt have expected sympathy - it was my own stupid fault (except is as much as it was really the fault of the theiving ****) and doesnt in that sense differ much from the time i killed a 10D while shooting from a RiB , or killed a pentax MZS rolling a floating hide over (the insurers paid out on the latter two though)

The thing is theres a difference between sympathy - feeling sorry for the guy, and empathy - being able to imagine how you would feel about this thread if you were in his place.

imo you and more particularly JSER seem particularly lacking in the latter
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I agree there is a difference and I do have empathy in that I know what it feels like to lose something. But I still think he is a fool and if I were the person who did what he did I would call myself a fool too
 
joescrivens said:
not insuring your kit and leaving it visible in a car is very different to falling out of a wheelchair
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Ah joe, assumptions again without knowing the whole story. Who knows where the bag was? It may be a sneak thief saw the unlocked car and tried his chance, it might be they saw a satnav mark on the windscreen, went after that and tried the boot and got lucky? We just don't know from the original post.

We gave my old boss his brand new laptop and someone bricked his window in waitrose carpark just on the off chance. BMW x5 with boot up in a supermarket carpark doesn't look suspicious. Luckily the CCTV caught the action and it was a known thief. Never got the laptop back though.
 
joescrivens said:
I would call myself a fool too
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yeah sure - and the guy in question probabaly is doing right now

but can you honestly say you'd be happy with a thread about your misfortune full of people falling about and saying ' that joe, what **** , :lol: lost his camera :lol: , and now he's out of business, what a knob "

theres also a difference between knowing you did something daft , and having it publicly pointed out
 
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Byker28i said:
Ah joe, assumptions again without knowing the whole story. Who knows where the bag was? It may be a sneak thief saw the unlocked car and tried his chance, it might be they saw a satnav mark on the windscreen, went after that and tried the boot and got lucky? We just don't know from the original post.
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I wasn't making assumptions. The OP went on to say

JSER said:
it was on view, not even in the boot, otherwise it would not have been seen and the car would probably not even have been opened.
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big soft moose said:
yeah sure - and the guy in question probabaly is doing right now

but can you honestly say you'd be happy with a thread about your misfortune full of people falling about and saying ' that joe, what **** , :lol: lost his camera :lol: , and now he's out of business, what a knob "

theres also a difference between knowing you did something daft , and having it publicly pointed out
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I agree that the OP is wrong for telling this story. When it actually is nothing to do with him. But since the story was told I expressed my opinion to not having sympathy. If the argument against me is that I shouldn't have even posted in the thread then fair enough. But i'm not going to apologise for having an opinion that differs from someone elses

It personally wouldn't bother me what a bunch of complete strangers thought about something I did - after all they are just people I don't know so it's not like it affects my life in any way.
 
What I find incredulous is that the OP bleats on in posts about consideration, manners, not being rude etc in quite a "I'm holier than thou" manner then creates a thread like this.

What a hypocrite.
 
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joescrivens said:
....It personally wouldn't bother me what a bunch of complete strangers thought about something I did - after all they are just people I don't know so it's not like it affects my life in any way.
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Which is why you have 5,000+ posts on an internet forum, many of those asking for people's (read: stranger's) opinions on your work....
 
specialman said:
Which is why you have 5,000+ posts on an internet forum, many of those asking for people's (read: stranger's) opinions on your work....
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Are you saying that me posting photos and asking for opinions means I care about what someone thinks if I do something foolish?

I don't understand what you mean, how is asking people to crit my photos relevant to what they think about other areas of my life?
 
Rather a lot of opinions posted.........opinions are like arseh*les........we all have one :)
 
Joe, seriously, you would argue with yourself in an empty room.

I was merely illustrating the point that despite your protests that the opinions of strangers are of no relevance to you, you do actually care what these strangers think of you. Otherwise, you wouldn't be asking for their advice in terms of crit and others posts where you want to make your opinion known....
 
joescrivens said:
if i didnt insure my gear and i lost it.

I would expect to receive no sympathy

i know the guy would have likely lost it anyway and like i said even if he had it packed hidden away out of sight I would have some sympathy for him. but to leave his gear in the car in plane sight for no reason and then do the accident bit - not for me.

as for everyone who is talking so much about malice and nastiness etc. I think you're all being a bit melodramatic to be honest :shrug:
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I said empathy, not sympathy.
 
I remember when it was all fields round here. :|
 
specialman said:
Joe, seriously, you would argue with yourself in an empty room.
.
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Lol. Actually my wife would agree with you there.

specialman said:
I was merely illustrating the point that despite your protests that the opinions of strangers are of no relevance to you, you do actually care what these strangers think of you. Otherwise, you wouldn't be asking for their advice in terms of crit and others posts where you want to make your opinion known....
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I don't see how that's relevant. Asking for crit is not me caring what strangers think of ME. Its caring what they have to say about photos I take. A chef cares what his customers think of his food, not what he likes to watch on telly
 
joescrivens said:
Lol. Actually my wife would agree with you there.
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She is a wise woman ;):thumbs:*

joescrivens said:
Asking for crit is not me caring what strangers think of ME. Its caring what they have to say about photos I take....
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That's obviously where we differ, as my photographs are an extension of me. Otherwise, what's the point in taking photographs?...

(*the same applies to me TBH - my missus has me down to a tee)
 
Harvey_nikon said:
It's difficult to compare the two, one is him being punished for making a mistake, the other is someone else being punished.

However :

mis·take

   /mɪˈsteɪk/ Show Spelled [mi-steyk] Show IPA noun, verb, -took, -tak·en, -tak·ing.
noun 1.an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc.

2.a misunderstanding or misconception.



So, yes, in your example it was an error in judgement so it was a mistake.
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Another Americanised voice telling us how to speak English.....this is what 'mistake' reads like in Manchester ...... '**** up'........:D
 
big soft moose said:
just to mention that even if he'd been insured and locked his car - most policies dont cover theft from an unattended vehicle unless the gear is locked in the boot and the boot is seperated from the passenger compartment by a bulk head.

that said starting a thread crowing about someone's misfortune is tasteless and petty - especially given that the Op is quick to bang on about his own misfortunes in life
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Besides that, household or regular car insurance likely wouldn't have covered it anyway - JSER stated that the guy had taken a business loan to buy the equipment, therefore it is business equipment, and pretty much no household policy would touch it, nor would regular car insurance.

It's a folly that many of us that have musical instruments fall into too, if you even casually gig for drinks, insurance won't touch it because 'you should have business insurance if you want to be covered'. Unfortunately many don't discover this until it's too late.

Edit to add:

Also, for anyone here where photography is simply a hobby and they telecommute, double check that your insurance covers your computer equipment, many policies don't for the above reasons, and it's another hidden cost of telecommuting that many overlook (since you probably use the computer for 'work purposes' 8*7/week which counts as more of your waking time than for personal use)
 
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