wee iPad

The ipad as a device and iOS as an operating system is worse than an Asus Transformer running Honeycomb or Jellybean.

However the iPad overall is a better device for one reason, the app store. The apps are either better or just don't exist outside of iOS, why are they only there? marketing

I have 2 ipads and 2 android tablets. I prefer the android tablets and I prefer the OS, but sadly I'm stuck with the oddities of iOS because the apps are better.

So to sum it up, the bits that apple have done are average, but their marketing has attracted people to the device who produce great apps.

You are wrong. I know because I am a developer for iOS and android.

It's not marketing which makes me develop my apps more for iOS. It's the success, service and tools you get from apple compared to android.

I sell more apps in one day on apple than in a whole month on amazon, nook and google play combined.

Before amazon App Store google play was and is a joke. No reviewing of apps meant that the store was an absolute joke, full of rubbish, hard to navigate etc etc.

Now amazon store is there it's not much better but at least they review the content. But it takes them forever to pay you and you get a cheque, like it was 1990. They don't even offer bank transfer. The fees are higher to be a member and the tools are poorer.

Nook is the only one close to being decent, a very stringent review process but again, terrible tools, and archaic payment schedules.

Apple provide a better service for all, and the best success rates due to combined tools, service to developers and the best App Store for the customer and easiest payment methods.

Marketing has zero to do with attracting developers.
 
£269 to compete with units like the nexus 7 and fire - both £100 or so cheaper.

Yes, but unlike those two companies, Apple doesn't have to sell their hardware at a loss to move huge volumes. They have sold 100,000,000 iPads in two years. When the Nexus 7 or the Kindle Fire have reached 10% of those sales figures then Apple might begin to start thinking about the possibilities of them getting a little bit worried sometime in the future.
 
I wasn't describing people who just aren't drawn to them I was describing people who have an irrational dislike

I never said i had an irrational dislike, i just didn't go into detail about why i don't like them, but i do label myself as an Apple Hater (or rather people label me as one, so i just go with it)

But i have to echo what Trencheel said in that Apple products are great if you don't want to know how things work or tweak how it works

I love Android because i can taylor it to my needs, or even start over with a brand new ROM, not locked down so much like Apple are
 
Surely selling more apps on different platforms has something to do with marketing?

One thing interesting about iOS and OSX is since January this year OSX has not increased its market share in the UK (11%), but iOS has doubled (3% to 6%). It will be interesting to how this will look in a years time.

http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-GB-monthly-201201-201209
 
Do we really have to go round the whole Apple Vs whatever thing and why we like and don't like Apple?

It would be interesting to actually read what people think about the mini and if they'll be buying one and not have to sieve through the usual Apple debate. :)
 
As much as I hate apple, the only current tablets that are really worth buying are Apple ones.

The app stores on the android are very poor in comparison, both in terms of usability and content. The app store is what makes the device.
 
I will 100% be buying one of the iPad Mini's, I've been after a tablet for a while but the iPad was just slightly too big. I am prepared to pay the £100 difference over rival tablets purely because I know it will simply, just work, and work alongside my other Apple devices.
 
I guess this thread is bound to go down the route of having other products thrown into the mix.

Afterall, I heard apple spent 10 minutes or so advertising the nexus 7 themselves. Is that true?
 
Surely selling more apps on different platforms has something to do with marketing?

Well, that's not what we were debating, you had said that their marketing is what attracted developers to the device to produce great apps and that's what I was disagreeing with. It's the service, tools and results that attract developers.

As for marketing, I will not deny that attracts the customers to buy the apps and buy the devices. But what is being said above and what I am disagreeing with is that it's SOLEY marketing which does this. There are people who claim, as has been done in this thread, that it's purely marketing that has made apple successful, nothing else. That's what my post above was all about. I'm not saying they don't do any good marketing, I'm saying that good marketing can only get you so far.

For a developer android is just a joke, for the reasons described in my previous post but there are other complexities which make it less successful too.

1. Devices.

When you build something for an ipad you have one aspect ratio to deal with, no matter what ipad version someone has the aspect ratio is the same, that was the same with the iPhone until the 5, but that's for another day. When you build for android you have a pool of hundreds of different devices that the app is going to be loaded on, this is especially difficult with phones as there are all manner of screen sizes. Optimising your app for every android device is a challenge.

2. Single sign on

For years apple has been selling music to its customers, which means one thing. Credit card on file. When these customers buy an ipad of iPhone or iPod touch the majority already have an account with apple and are purchasing apps in seconds. Android users just don't buy as many apps as apple users for a variety of respasons, but one of them is that the path to purchase is longer.

For a huge majority, even if they never bought music before, they likely bought their I device from the online apple store, thus creating their apple id when they made that purchase. You buy your android device from all manner of different traders so it's impossible for google to grab your details to serve it up to you, then there are different stores to buy the apps from, nook store, blackberry world, amazon, google play etc. it's a minefield for the customer.

3. technical stuff

Each individual App Store for android has their own way of approving stuff, for example. Nook doesn't like your apps running in the background, they want you to close them down when you exit, but they want it to resume where it left off. On apple this is taken care of for you at the os level, in android on nook you have to implement this yourself, but you don't have to on all the versions of android, nook and people like nabi or learn pad etc tweak the is for their own device.

4. Multitouch

All ipad versions from day one have 11 touch points. iPhones have 5. The majority of android devices have 2, then there are a couple which have more, but it means that you can never build an app which has more than 2 touch points for an android device, since you can never tell which device it might be used on. You'd have to restrict it on the store to the tiny proportion of devices, which you won't do because sales would be dismal. In iOS it's the same across all the devices of a particular type, I.e. iPads or iPhones/iPods.

All of the above and more is what attracts developers to iOS more than android. Android just do not measure up for the app developer for the most part, there is no money to be made so largely they walk away. It's not marketing, it's tools, services and technical stuff.
 
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joescrivens said:
Well, that's not what we were debating, you had said that their marketing is what attracted developers to the device to produce great apps and that's what I was disagreeing with. It's the service, tools and results that attract developers.

As for marketing, I will not deny that attracts the customers to buy the apps and buy the devices. But what is being said above and what I am disagreeing with is that it's SOLEY marketing which does this. There are people who claim, as has been done in this thread, that it's purely marketing that has made apple successful, nothing else. That's what my post above was all about. I'm not saying they don't do any good marketing, I'm saying that good marketing can only get you so far.

For a developer android is just a joke, for the reasons described in my previous post but there are other complexities which make it less successful too.

1. Devices.

When you build something for an ipad you have one aspect ratio to deal with, no matter what ipad version someone has the aspect ratio is the same, that was the same with the iPhone until the 5, but that's for another day. When you build for android you have a pool of hundreds of different devices that the app is going to be loaded on, this is especially difficult with phones as there are all manner of screen sizes. Optimising your app for every android device is a challenge.

2. Single sign on

For years apple has been selling music to its customers, which means one thing. Credit card on file. When these customers buy an ipad of iPhone or iPod touch the majority already have an account with apple and are purchasing apps in seconds. Android users just don't buy as many apps as apple users for a variety of respasons, but one of them is that the path to purchase is longer.

For a huge majority, even if they never bought music before, they likely bought their I device from the online apple store, thus creating their apple id when they made that purchase. You buy your android device from all manner of different traders so it's impossible for google to grab your details to serve it up to you, then there are different stores to buy the apps from, nook store, blackberry world, amazon, google play etc. it's a minefield for the customer.

3. technical stuff

Each individual App Store for android has their own way of approving stuff, for example. Nook doesn't like your apps running in the background, they want you to close them down when you exit, but they want it to resume where it left off. On apple this is taken care of for you at the os level, in android on nook you have to implement this yourself, but you don't have to on all the versions of android, nook and people like nabi or learn pad etc tweak the is for their own device.

4. Multitouch

All ipad versions from day one have 11 touch points. iPhones have 5. The majority of android devices have 2, then there are a couple which have more, but it means that you can never build an app which has more than 2 touch points for an android device, since you can never tell which device it might be used on. You'd have to restrict it on the store to the tiny proportion of devices, which you won't do because sales would be dismal. In iOS it's the same across all the devices of a particular type, I.e. iPads or iPhones/iPods.

All of the above and more is what attracts developers to iOS more than android. Android just do not measure up for the app developer for the most part, there is no money to be made so largely they walk away. It's not marketing, it's tools, services and technical stuff.

If I'd wanted to buy a device for apps I would've stayed with apple, seeing as that isn't the reason, I have the Samsung tab because overall it's a better experience. Each to their own.My argument is that Apple are charging inflated prices it's as simple as that. I mean..c'mon..,nearly £600 for an iPhone5 !!!
 
Don't forget that the residuals of Apple products are historically very strong. When you come to sell them you invariably get a good chunk of your initial investment back, even with outdated models... good value if you look at the bigger picture.
 
If I'd wanted to buy a device for apps I would've stayed with apple, seeing as that isn't the reason, I have the Samsung tab because overall it's a better experience. Each to their own.My argument is that Apple are charging inflated prices it's as simple as that. I mean..c'mon..,nearly £600 for an iPhone5 !!!

inflated pricing would indicate that you can get the exact same thing cheaper elsewhere. You can't so their prices are just what they are. No other device offers the entire service that comes with the iphone (including the app store, the customer service, the included apps, the integration with other devices etc etc)

They are allowed to sell something at whatever pricepoint they want. If they continue to be successful at it why would they sell things cheaper?

You don't think that if samsung could sell as many galaxy phones at £600 they wouldn't jump at the chance?

Nobody is telling you that you are wrong for enjoying your samsung tab, it's the implication from you that those of us choosing the idevice are somehow being hoodwinked, thats just silly
 
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Don't forget that the residuals of Apple products are historically very strong. When you come to sell them you invariably get a good chunk of your initial investment back, even with outdated models... good value if you look at the bigger picture.

excatomundo
 
If I'd wanted to buy a device for apps I would've stayed with apple, seeing as that isn't the reason, I have the Samsung tab because overall it's a better experience. Each to their own.My argument is that Apple are charging inflated prices it's as simple as that. I mean..c'mon..,nearly £600 for an iPhone5 !!!

I think it also partly comes down to the fact that Apple have no direct competition, and by direct i mean anyone else using the same operating system

It's not like HTC could bring out a new product in the same price range as a technically equivalent Apple product as they also have direct competition in the for of Samsung for example

As Apple would never let anyone else use their operating system, they will always have no direct competition, again, another good marketing strategy (for which they are extremely good at)
 
Again Joe, my deepest apologies for not using the correct terminology, please send the Grammar Police round to my work place straight away
 
Again Joe, my deepest apologies for not using the correct terminology, please send the Grammar Police round to my work place straight away

no need to be crass.

I'm correcting you because in this thread you were adamant that all Apple do well is marketing. There is a huge difference between marketing and business. It's not just terminology.
 
Having never jumped into the hype and bought something on launch day, can anyone tell me how it normally works? Will they release the pre-orders at 9am tomorrow? Also, does the Apple website tend to cope as I was planning on going through Boots Treat Street to get Boots Advantage Points too, it will be a pain if I needed to reload as i'd have to go back through Treat Street?
 
joescrivens said:
inflated pricing would indicate that you can get the exact same thing cheaper elsewhere. You can't so their prices are just what they are. No other device offers the entire service that comes with the iphone (including the app store, the customer service, the included apps, the integration with other devices etc etc)

They are allowed to sell something at whatever pricepoint they want. If they continue to be successful at it why would they sell things cheaper?

You don't think that if samsung could sell as many galaxy phones at £600 they wouldn't jump at the chance?

Nobody is telling you that you are wrong for enjoying your samsung tab, it's the implication from you that those of us choosing the idevice are somehow being hoodwinked, thats just silly


In your opinion Joe ,think I'll leave it at that.
 
As I said.... I'll leave it at that ;-)

Admirable restraint......

.......Joe, you could cause an argument in an empty house!


Almost £600 for a phone is absurd, even if it made toast!
 
As I said.... I'll leave it at that ;-)

and to clarify - yes, when I post things into threads I am expressing my opinion

Admirable restraint......

.......Joe, you could cause an argument in an empty house!

If you can't debate sensibly without assuming that its an argument then I'm sorry but that's just silly. I think I've backed up everything I have said with reason and evidence. But as always, people seem not to be able to maintain a sensible demeanor without assuming arguing is occurying.

Do you honestly think Samsung wouldn't try and sell a £600 phone if they could?

A phone that makes toast on the other hand? That's money waiting to be made!!!
 
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joescrivens said:
and to clarify - yes, when I post things into threads I am expressing my opinion

If you can't debate sensibly without assuming that its an argument then I'm sorry but that's just silly. I think I've backed up everything I have said with reason and evidence. But as always, people seem not to be able to maintain a sensible demeanor without assuming arguing is occurying.

Do you honestly think Samsung wouldn't try and sell a £600 phone if they could?

A phone that makes toast on the other hand? That's money waiting to be made!!!

Chill chill..... Man...

There's debating and there's nick picking,the latter you are very good at,your debating skills I'll have to think about and get back to ya oky doke ;-)

Anyways your entertaining none the less

Oh.. A phone with a toaster although handy ,unfortunately the battery wouldn't last,guess it wouldn't sell very well
 
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joescrivens said:
I'll have you know that I am a master at debating!

I almost misread the last three words there... Phew :-D

Would that be an anagram thingy ma jig?
 
People should stop comparing products just on spec and price, with Apple your paying for design, build and brand name. Saying they rip you off because you have to pay a premium for these is just like say BMW or Jaguar are ripping you off, because a fiat punto is just the same with 4 wheels, 2 door and and engine .

Residuals have to be taken in to account too, how much will an 18 month old ipad mini be wroth compared to the same ages kindle or nexus.

Maybe apple could have priced it lower, but doing so would kill off the android tables give us no completion, which is bad for everyone.
 
People should stop comparing products just on spec and price, with Apple your paying for design, build and brand name. Saying they rip you off because you have to pay a premium for these is just like say BMW or Jaguar are ripping you off, because a fiat punto is just the same with 4 wheels, 2 door and and engine .

Residuals have to be taken in to account too, how much will an 18 month old ipad mini be wroth compared to the same ages kindle or nexus.

Maybe apple could have priced it lower, but doing so would kill off the android tables give us no completion, which is bad for everyone.

Bingo
 
Anyone know if it's likely to go live for pre-sale at midnight or 9am?
 
I think we can sum this thread up by saying Apple products are like Marmite, you either get it, or you don't.................... simple as that :D
 
Almost £600 for a phone is absurd, even if it made toast!

i'll quote this post but mainly aimed at others saying the iPhone5 is ridiculously priced (£600/32gb)..

isnt the S3 £499 sim free, then you have to buy a microSD (£30 for a 32gb class 10).

its not really a huge difference is it in the grand scheme of things?
 
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