Weddings - Moving from Fuji to Sony

woof woof said:
Deep sigh... I think you need to take a look and the advantages and disadvantages and maybe take into account the experience too. For me coming from both an artistic and technical background and after shooting for something over 30 years with film before going digital with a DSLR for another 10 years or so I still made the transition from optical to digital VF very quickly and I just wouldn't go back willingly now as IMO a digital VF is more use as both a technical tool and an artistic aid so that just leaves the experience aspect and to be honest for me the EVF wins here too.

There will be some who will insist that the last DSLR with an OVF will have to be prised from their cold dead hand and these are possibly the same sort of people who said the same when every innovation came along... film in a cartridge, AF, digital... Not that that makes them wrong but it probably makes them niche users and in a small minority.
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That's the problem with some. I would never go back to OVF as I love my EVF but equally I will never recommend an awful EVF to an OVF user just because it's a newer technology. For me you are just trying to justify what you have spent your money on.
 
architectfadi said:
That's the problem with some. I would never go back to OVF as I love my EVF but equally I will never recommend an awful EVF to an OVF user just because it's a newer technology. For me you are just trying to justify what you have spent your money on.
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No sigh this time but maybe a groan...

So just to clarify, I'm not trying to justify anything I've spent my money on. I don't feel the need to justify anything to anyone thank you :D

I'm just posting an alternative and a little balance to the discussion. The view that EVF's are awful is IMO a rather sweeping (some are better than others and the Sony A7 one is not awful) or at least a highly subjective view.

A bit of balance is IMO a good thing.
 
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woof woof said:
No sigh this time but maybe a groan...

So just to clarify, I'm not trying to justify anything I've spent my money on. I don't feel the need to justify anything to anyone thank you :D

I'm just posting an alternative and a little balance to the discussion. The view that EVF's are awful is IMO a rather sweeping (some are better than others) or at least a highly subjective view.

A bit of balance is IMO a good thing.
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I prefer a good evf over an ovf. For me, the earlier evf’s were muddy and fell apart in low light. Now seem to be getting better and better.
 
The first digital camera I had was a Fuji 602 and I don't remember the EVF as being actually awful. I don't remember what it was like in low light but I do remember that the one on my Panasonic G1 was ok in daylight but in very low light it failed to show things which were still visible by eye and yet kicked out so much light that it'd project an image onto a wall.

The Sony A7 one is IMO useable in most situations and even the field sequential EVF on my Panasonic cameras which has its problems is useable too. I'd have taken that G1 EVF over any optical VF in all but near darkness and I can't think of any occasion in which I'd take an OVF over any of my current cameras.

And that's not an attempt to justify what I've bought to a bunch of strangers on line :D
 
EVF vs OVF is interesting. In the right circumstances an OVF may be nicer to view through on FX, but will give the viewer less information about the image he is trying to create compared to EVF, since it somewhat shows how the camera is viewing the scene. EVF wins immediately you put a 10stop + filter on, since it will gain up to show you a perfectly usable scene, and may also be a lot better at low light shooting.

IMO the EVF is my Sony A58 is much nicer and far more usable than the OVF in a Nikon D5300, especially if the Nikon has the kit lens in place. OTOH the EVF on my wife's Oly E-M10 MkI sucks badly, with the image breaking up at times and being dull & muddy even at its best. I can't imagine the A7MkIII EVF is a poor compromise at all.
 
Black out free EVF is certainly amazing and something I was hoping for a while. Only reason I'd want an A9. I am sure the feature will eventually trickle down.
 
decigallen said:
Nice read, but it's comparing the xt2 to sony crop sensor cameras. In which case it does shine. Ergonomically, and performance wise it's no match for the (admittedly more expensive) a7iii.

I do agree with his point on updates. Fuji really breathe life into older bodies with firmware updates. Sony would do well to follow their lead.
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But the a7III is FF and being compared to a DX Fuji ? lol I have 4 FX bodies but in all honesty I don't think there is a massive difference in the images shot even my 4/3rd cameras can produce excellent images in the right conditions.
I think we are really spoilt for choice these days and its about what you find suites yourself and you shooting style :)
Bring on Canon and Nikons next generation of cameras :)
 
decigallen said:
Nice read, but it's comparing the xt2 to sony crop sensor cameras. In which case it does shine. Ergonomically, and performance wise it's no match for the (admittedly more expensive) a7iii.

I do agree with his point on updates. Fuji really breathe life into older bodies with firmware updates. Sony would do well to follow their lead.
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Sony refreshes their bodies so often one would just upgrade to the next body :p
 
decigallen said:
I do agree with his point on updates. Fuji really breathe life into older bodies with firmware updates. Sony would do well to follow their lead.
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Lol no they wouldn't. They add features that are already present in competitors from day one. You rather have A7III with half its features missing? :P
 
addicknchips said:
Fan boy comment of the day. Congrats
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It's the truth.
How am I a fanboy when I shoot multiple brands and multiple formats!
And besides fanboy of what? I never said anything In favour of anything, just mentioned something against your beloved perfect Fuji :p
 
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addicknchips said:
you'd rather not have your camera improved over years of ownership? seems odd.
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Of course I would. But it seems you rather have a half baked products at start when there is an option of having a mostly fully developed product from day 1. That's what is odd really.
 
nandbytes said:
Lol no they wouldn't. They add features that are already present in competitors from day one. You rather have A7III with half its features missing? :p
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But they need to iron out the glitches before putting them into the plastic box :p
 
nandbytes said:
Of course I would. But it seems you rather have a half baked products at start when there is an option of having a mostly fully developed product from day 1. That's what is odd really.
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no i wouldn't. but its nice to know the camera will continue to get improvements year after year. i mean come on - theres plenty of room for improvement in the original sony a7 or a7r for example. would have been nice to get the occasional improvement to the focus system. im not saying it should have an a9 focus system - but some updates at least, even minor would be nice.

so how are fw updates in that regard not welcomed by you? seems odd. hence fan boy comment because sony don't do it.
 
nandbytes said:
It's the truth.
How am I a fanboy when I shoot multiple brands and multiple formats!
And besides fanboy of what? I never said anything In favour of anything, just mentioned something against your beloved perfect Fuji :p
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The perfect camera is like the Holy Grail nudge nudge wink wink know wot I mean
 
addicknchips said:
no i wouldn't. but its nice to know the camera will continue to get improvements year after year. i mean come on - theres plenty of room for improvement in the original sony a7 or a7r for example. would have been nice to get the occasional improvement to the focus system. im not saying it should have an a9 focus system - but some updates at least, even minor would be nice.

so how are fw updates in that regard not welcomed by you? seems odd. hence fan boy comment because sony don't do it.
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I never said Sony is perfect. jeez being critical of Fuji is not same as praising sony!

Sony has its own issues including (not limited) crappy APS-C lenses, no updates for bodies despite them being in production (A7/A7R is a good example), rubbish QC on some (rather expensive) lenses etc etc.

FW updates are always welcome. Fuji is normally playing catch with firmware updates where as competitors (i.e. canon, nikon, sony, pentax not just Sony) normally release bodies that are fully featured and mostly iron out bugs or update already good feature set with updates. An example I clearly remember is it took fuji v4 update to add eye-AF on X-T1. A6000/A7 had it from day 1. Playing catchup via. updates is not anything special which you seem to think it is.
 
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nandbytes said:
I never said Sony is perfect (jeez being critical of Fuji is not same as praising sony!)

Sony has its own issues including (not limited) crappy APS-C lenses, no updates for bodies despite them being in production (A7/A7R is a good example), rubbish QC on some (rather expensive) lenses etc etc.

FW updates are always welcome. Fuji is normally playing catch with firmware updates where as competitors (i.e. canon, nikon, sony, pentax not just Sony) normally release bodies that are fully featured and mostly iron out bugs or update already good feature set with updates. An example I clearly remember is it took fuji v4 update to add eye-AF on X-T1. A6000/A7 had it from day 1. Playing catchup via. updates is not anything special which you seem to think it is.
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yes i get that theres an element of catch up with some of the updates. but look at the x-pro 2 for example - one update introduced something like 100 more focus points into the af system. unlikely you'll see that happen with a canon or nikon. could have just said "if you want more then by the x-t2".
 
addicknchips said:
yes i get that theres an element of catch up with some of the updates. but look at the x-pro 2 for example - one update introduced something like 100 more focus points into the af system. unlikely you'll see that happen with a canon or nikon. could have just said "if you want more then by the x-t2".
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err canon and nikon use a separate PDAF modules. It'd be a hardware change.
If fuji were able to (not add) unlock those PDAF points they could have probably done so from start. Again playing catchup or purposefully keeping it low to make it look like they are adding amazing fw updates.
 
nandbytes said:
err canon and nikon use a separate PDAF modules. It'd be a hardware change.
If fuji were able to (not add) unlock those PDAF points they could have probably done so from start. Again playing catchup or purposefully keeping it low to make it look like they are adding amazing fw updates.
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err i said "unlikely you'll see".

so you think the a7r was maxed out and had no possible room for improvement via fw?
 
nandbytes said:
err canon and nikon use a separate PDAF modules. It'd be a hardware change.
If fuji were able to (not add) unlock those PDAF points they could have probably done so from start. Again playing catchup or purposefully keeping it low to make it look like they are adding amazing fw updates.
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Well at least the mains battery charger comes in the box, and isn't an (expensive) add-on - A7iii :p
 
nandbytes said:
Of course I would. But it seems you rather have a half baked products at start when there is an option of having a mostly fully developed product from day 1. That's what is odd really.
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You're saying this like the sonys couldn't be improved with firmware updates? How about seconds on the camera clock? Lossless compressed raw? Customisable rec button for stills? Dedicated auto iso on/off menu item? Not to mention the tweaks that could be done over time to improve the already great af system? The Sony I have does have many flaws that could be improved with firmware tweaks.

Fuji are building a loyal fanbase by supporting customers in that way.
 
addicknchips said:
err i said "unlikely you'll see".

so you think the a7r was maxed out and had no possible room for improvement via fw?
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I don't if its possible but A7R could have done with add EFCS and possibly adding the uncompressed RAW firmware update. What annoys me more is that its an in production body they don't seem to be supporting anymore.
A7II was IMO the worst update of a body ever.

Mr Perceptive said:
Well at least the mains battery charger comes in the box, and isn't an (expensive) add-on - A7iii :p
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Yeah sucks big time.

Like i said being critical of fuji doesn't mean I am praising sony. I am more than happy to bash Sony too if you guys prefer that lol (you'll see plenty of that on the Sony A7 thread lol).
 
decigallen said:
You're saying this like the sonys couldn't be improved with firmware updates? How about seconds on the camera clock? Lossless compressed raw? Customisable rec button for stills? Dedicated auto iso on/off menu item? Not to mention the tweaks that could be done over time to improve the already great af system? The Sony I have does have many flaws that could be improved with firmware tweaks.

Fuji are building a loyal fanbase by supporting customers in that way.
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jeez for 3rd time being critical of Fuji does not mean i am complimenting sony!!!

Sony could certainly improve a lot of things via. fw update but unlike fuji they aren't playing catch up on basic features. You don't have sub-standard AF system that'll eventually be improved to be half-decent. But the AF system can be improved upon yes and many times Sony have done so (the rest I don't think Sony will provide an update for which is a shame).
 
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You do see a Sony camera brought up in many threads online when comparing with a camera usually way cheaper and aimed at a different market. (Canon G7x ii threads are often invaded by Sony a6500 users for example) BUT I’m pretty sure the Sony A7 system is superb for weddings especially now the lenses have developed. But... for the extra £££s you have to spend I would expect nothing less.

I don’t think it’s so much a competition between fuji and Sony, rather a question of personal taste / budget / needs. This is the internet however :)
 
db247 said:
You do see a Sony camera brought up in many threads online when comparing with a camera usually way cheaper and aimed at a different market. (Canon G7x ii threads are often invaded by Sony a6500 users for example) BUT I’m pretty sure the Sony A7 system is superb for weddings especially now the lenses have developed. But... for the extra £££s you have to spend I would expect nothing less.

I don’t think it’s so much a competition between fuji and Sony, rather a question of personal taste / budget / needs. This is the internet however :)
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In fairness, in this thread, the OP asked specifically about migrating from a Fuji to the more expensive Sony rather than this topic being hijacked.
 
The charger issue is a fair point. A massive own goal for Sony. At £2k you expect a standalone charger for sure. I sincerely hope few give their money over to sony by buying it. I really like the Hahnel procube2 charger that I bought instead.
 
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