Weddings, in dark places

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jimgreen

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edit - Sorry, just realised probably wrong forum, could someone move this for me please! eek!

After a glut of summer weddings, where portraits are just a piece of cake with all the light available, we have 3 weddings in 5 days over christmas.

The one thing that is really daunting is lighting portraits of more than 2 people indoors. The venues are going to be the ones where not a lot of natural night is available, they'll probably want the photos done on a big dark staircase and the sun will set early anyway! I'm after some tips please everyone, we have pretty much mastered the speedlite on camera, but I think we'll probably have to bring something else in.... Tips and tricks everyone, tips and tricks.

We run a 40d and will probably have a 5D on board too (I really can't keep borrowing my mates d200)
 
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Good technique, whack up the ISO and a slow ish shutter speed
 
Soz jimgreen - but I can see this one going downhill pretty quickly :( - reason - you've done a 'glut' of summer Weddings have 3 in 5 days over Christmas and don't know how to shoot them ??? :(

Here's comes the proverbial... mind the fan :D

DD
 
I use a quantum flash gun it has enough power to singe peoples eyebrows,
(if required) though I use some translucent fliters on it it to soften if it can't be bounced anywhere or off a reflector.

At least with digital you've got an instant "polaroid" not like the old days :)
 
There's always the old trick of pointing flash on camera straight up and placing a piece of white card behind the flash head with an elastic band.
 
SimonM said:
I was resisting the obvious Troll Alert Dave although the on camera flash should have really told me ;)
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I was just making a big bucket of popcorn. This could be fun :)

Srsly - light troubles me more than dark.
 
Love you all :)

I particularly like the high iso tip. How do I do that ? :P
 
jimgreen said:
I particularly like the high iso tip. How do I do that ? :P
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Raise the camera well above your head, an assistant with it strapped to a fishing pole works well :D

You've been lucky so far with the comments here too ;)

DD
 
OK, let's get the ball rolling then.....

Maybe you should do Winter weddings free of charge as you can't guarantee any usable images? :D

.... or perhaps invest in a decent portable lighting system.... :shrug:
 
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I've gone in too low right ? Where's the forum where I can look at 100% enlargements at various isos?
 
My, aren't we a helpful lot.
 
Thanks for your tip Coaster. The Nikon flash I use on the d200 has kind of the same deal that pops out but the 430ex doesn't. Do they rectify this with the 580?

I guess what I was asking was does anyone take additional lighting with them.
 
The 580ex11 has a built in catchlight.

TBH it varies from job to job to togger to togger.

We use 2-3 580#s with pocket wizards/

On camera flash bad, off camera good ;)
 
I guess what folk are trying to say is - if you have taken it on and are getting paid, one would hope you would already know how to do it, if you don't and by using on board flash it suggests you don't then perhaps pass it on and don't ruin a Bride and Grooms big day ?
 
We did one last year in Feb, and it was great. I only asked for other peoples experiences. I guess in the original post I should have said we have got the hang of the speedlite,but wanted to improve. It's like some of you were born awesome :) The bookings we have are from couples who love our work and service.
 
OK so they have booked you to shoot their winter weddings because they love your work but you don't actually know how to light a winter wedding...... Just checking.
 
Jim perhaps it's time to invest in a compact portable lighting set (even one head to begin with) with a softbox a flash/light meter etc and also do portaits or a lastolite Ezy box.

A battery pack/ezy box can do wonders to portraits outside have a look at Tomas Whitehouses' flickr (he comes on here from time to time - love his work)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tyketyler/sets/

http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-Lastolite-EzyBox-Hotshoe-38x38cm/p1016769?cm_mmc=GoogleBase-_-Flashguns-_-Flash-Diffusers-_-Lastolite-EzyBox-Hotshoe-38x38cm_1016769
 
Right OK
You need to get lighting and flash down, have a read of this:
http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/

Have a look at this guy Lloyd Yoon, lighting genius for inspiration http://www.nightanddayphoto.ca/nd/gallerymain.asp

This guy Dave Nunn rocks with lighting too
http://www.davenunnstudios.co.uk/

Plus not forgetting our own Simon Revill http://www.simonrevill.com/ and Guy Collier http://www.guycollierphotography.com/

And my good mate Gareth http://www.heesomphotography.co.uk/

Might be worth doing some lighting workshops if you can

You're going to need Speedlights, wireless triggers, a box as above, umbrella and a load of batteries
 
Buy a Nikon D3s? Shoots a black cat in a coal hole!

Alternatively learn to light larger spaces. It depends on the size of the space and the ceiling height. I have speedlights AND studio lights for larger venues. If I need to put 30 people on a big wide staircase there is no way I'm lighting that lot with speedlights.
 
AliB said:
Buy a Nikon D3s? Shoots a black cat in a coal hole!

Alternatively learn to light larger spaces. It depends on the size of the space and the ceiling height. I have speedlights AND studio lights for larger venues. If I need to put 30 people on a big wide staircase there is no way I'm lighting that lot with speedlights.
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your kung fu is weak

go forth and read McNally and Hobby then come back and shoot the moon with speedlights :D
 
pragmatist said:
This guy Dave Nunn rocks with lighting too
http://www.davenunnstudios.co.uk/

Some interesting videos on this website on how he goes about shooting a wedding. Was interested in the continuous lighting lamp, Any tips on which type to get and what portable power pack to power it?
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The Lowel ID here is about the most popular hereabouts

There are of course cheaper versions, but that's the dog's danglies :)

DD
 
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Winter weddings seem very popular this year, I have 5 myself in December, including a triple header the weekend before Xmas best do my xmas shopping early :)

Key thing with big groups indoors and particularly with a group stood on a staircase is to get the light even across them. If you keep the flash on camera the people at the front of the group are gonna end up very bright compared to the people at the back of the group because of the inverse square law.

A large group stood on a staircase is gonna be quite a distance from front to back of group so in that situation I would look to be using multiple flashes with umbrellas and getting the lights fairly high so that they are lighting the group evenly. The other key thing to remember is to get sufficient DOF in the shot so that everyone's sharp, shoot this at a wide aperture and some people will be out of focus again because of the distance from the front to the back of the group.

Easiest way to get your flash off camera is via an ST-E2 or 580EX used as a controller for the remote flashes, I have pocket wizards and still end up using my ST-E2 quite a bit for off camera flash indoors because the focus assist is very useful when its really dark!

Practice before the wedding is the key of course, you don't want to be messing around learning this stuff at a wedding with 30 guests looking at you. You don need a big group to practice on, just g et a couple of mates and space them out on a staircase as if there were people filing in between them and practice getting the lighting even on them.
 
Wedding-Photos said:
If you keep the flash on camera the people at the front of the group are gonna end up very bright compared to the people at the back of the group because of the inverse square law.

The ISL doesn't apply indoors (and if you speak to Garry Edwards he'd say virtually anywhere!) due to light bouncing around from the floors, ceilings & walls; that and as are you are generally pointing the flash towards your subject (even if you bounce it off the ceilings or wall behind you). There is of course fall-off of light from front to back but the easiest way to minimise that is to raise your ISO and open your aperture too

The other key thing to remember is to get sufficient DOF in the shot so that everyone's sharp, shoot this at a wide aperture and some people will be out of focus again because of the distance from the front to the back of the group.

Yes, but, shooting a big group indoors usually means shooting with a pretty wide-angle lens. If we assume the most popular as the 24-70 FX or 17-55 DX then shot widest even a group starting just 10 ft away will have all in sharp focus at just f4 from about 6ft to 27ft away. Using f8 will increase that DoF but increase the flash drop-off across the group. So shoot as wide as you can to maintain sufficient DoF will help to more evenly light them even with a single flash


Practice before the wedding is the key of course, you don't want to be messing around learning this stuff at a wedding with 30 guests looking at you. You don need a big group to practice on, just get a couple of mates and space them out on a staircase as if there were people filing in between them and practice getting the lighting even on them.

If you can practice at one of the venues all the better :)
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Just wanting to add some clarification to Nick's points that I feel need a little more explanation :)

DD
 
Wedding-Photos said:
A large group stood on a staircase is gonna be quite a distance from front to back of group so in that situation I would look to be using multiple flashes with umbrellas and getting the lights fairly high so that they are lighting the group evenly.
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And I'd be looking to use a single light to avoid cross shadows. Fact is that everybody's different which is one of the reasons that "tell me how to do this" threads get so messy.

@jimgreen - what is it about the dark that worries you? Personally I find it less challenging than bright sun because I can light it with a candle and still get good effects. SB will rule when it's dark but not so much when it's very bright.

>> we have pretty much mastered the speedlite on camera

Then you'll be fine. Pretty much all I use indoors when it's dark.
 
JonathanRyan said:
And I'd be looking to use a single light to avoid cross shadows. Fact is that everybody's different which is one of the reasons that "tell me how to do this" threads get so messy.

@jimgreen - what is it about the dark that worries you? Personally I find it less challenging than bright sun because I can light it with a candle and still get good effects. SB will rule when it's dark but not so much when it's very bright.

>> we have pretty much mastered the speedlite on camera

Then you'll be fine. Pretty much all I use indoors when it's dark.
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I only ever use one too to avoid shadow issues - but as you say, each to their own :)

DD
 
jimgreen said:
edit - Sorry, just realised probably wrong forum, could someone move this for me please! eek!

After a glut of summer weddings, where portraits are just a piece of cake with all the light available, we have 3 weddings in 5 days over christmas.

The one thing that is really daunting is lighting portraits of more than 2 people indoors. The venues are going to be the ones where not a lot of natural night is available, they'll probably want the photos done on a big dark staircase and the sun will set early anyway! I'm after some tips please everyone, we have pretty much mastered the speedlite on camera, but I think we'll probably have to bring something else in.... Tips and tricks everyone, tips and tricks.

We run a 40d and will probably have a 5D on board too (I really can't keep borrowing my mates d200)
Click to expand...

Hi Jim

Lighting inside can be daunting, but there are certain things you can do to make it easier for yourself. If you have to do group shots inside, try to avoid stairs ... ! Also, explain to the B&G that lighting is difficult and ask them to cut down the size of the group shots, even if it means doing a few more as a result. I never use extra lighting other than 580EX's (for formals), the power these things can throw is amazing when you push them.

With the smaller groups, try to shoot them on the level, grab a chair to stand on just to give you that little bit of height. If the B&G insist on stairs shots, always try to position people in a line rather than spreading them up the stairs (3 deep max), much easier to light evenly (hence cutting down the size of the groups). You say you have mastered flash on camera, so it's just the positioning of the groups that you have to work on.

Hope this helps Jim, and many thanks to those who have mentioned the site and videos.

Cheers

Dave.
 
DaveN said:
Hi Jim

Lighting inside can be daunting, but there are certain things you can do to make it easier for yourself. If you have to do group shots inside, try to avoid stairs ... ! Also, explain to the B&G that lighting is difficult and ask them to cut down the size of the group shots, even if it means doing a few more as a result. I never use extra lighting other than 580EX's (for formals), the power these things can throw is amazing when you push them.

With the smaller groups, try to shoot them on the level, grab a chair to stand on just to give you that little bit of height. If the B&G insist on stairs shots, always try to position people in a line rather than spreading them up the stairs (3 deep max), much easier to light evenly (hence cutting down the size of the groups). You say you have mastered flash on camera, so it's just the positioning of the groups that you have to work on.

Hope this helps Jim, and many thanks to those who have mentioned the site and videos.

Cheers

Dave.
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Welcome Dave - nice plug too ;)

DD
 
Thanks for the comments everyone. Basically I knew we had to invest in a bit more gear, and I was interested what other people use. I think another couple of Speedlites would do the job well. We have been bouncing the flash a lot in the past, but after visiting the venues they are all high ceiling/wood paneling jobs!
 
danmon_81 said:
WOW....true inspiration right there....your work is stunning!! Im glad someone posted your link!!! Brilliant!
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Are you married to him ??? :suspect::suspect::suspect:





:D

Better go look myself it he warrants such a reply

DD
 
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