Wedding Threads

Radiohead said:
See my common sense response above.

To clarify:

'I'm shooting my first wedding and have one body and a 400mm f2.8' - common sense replies ahoy.

'I'm shooting my first wedding. I've got this lot, have sorted out a contract with the couple and have been to see the location. I'm a little nervous and should do with some advice regarding managing groups, timings etc. - experienced wedding shooters ahoy.

As always with these damn threads people put words into our mouths, and like Godwin's Law for wedding shooters, accusations of elitism are slung around.
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Sorry, that reply was posted while I was typing.

Often common sense needs to be injected because it isn't as common as we would often hope. Your examples are pretty clear but generally the type of threads that degenerate are more along the lines of 'I've been asked to do a wedding, should I' or 'Ohbugger I've agreed to do a wedding what should I use'.

Personally I have never through of wedding togs as being elitist until hints of 'Non wedding togs need not post' were suggested in this very thread.
 
So we are all agreed then.. wedding threads arnt just for pro wedding togs to answer.. yes? :)
 
KIPAX said:
here



I am saying no such thing and to be honest a sensible debate just deteriorates when it comes down to stuff like this :(
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And that was in reply to someone other than you.
 
When people ask these questions on this forum it is usually for equipment advice. Any ethical questions such as 'should they really be doing it?' are between them and the bride and groom.

There was a thread recently where someone had been asked to photograph a friend's wedding. The friend getting married had recently been made redundant and could not afford to pay a photographer. In this case, the only pictures they were going to get were from the kind gesture of a friend doing it for them.

In this case, no amount of 'don't do it, leave it to a professional' advice is going to help.

What will help is positive advice about the best types of lenses to use and other techniques such as fill flash and how to make the best use of the equipment available if getting anything extra is not an option.

Obviously someone fairly new to photography who up until now has only taken the odd landscape photo and pictures of his children and pets is not going to do as good a job as an experienced professional. However, there are couples getting married on very small budgets for whom this is the only option and in these cases some pictures are better than no pictures.

With a continuing recession, low or zero budget weddings are going to be more common so we can expect even more of these threads.


Steve.
 
I don't think you can ever avoid the two factions from taking pot shots at one another because the two have such differing views with the others being sceptical of those views.

Some pros think anyone with a DSLR attempting wedding photography is trying to 'cheapen their art' 'steel their livelyhoods' 'earn a quick buck' etc etc and in a way fair play - However, every business no matter which sector it is in always has to compete with other people undercutting to try and break into a market with inexperience and using substandard equipment - so deal with it!!!!

The majority of seasoned pros were in this position at some point in their careers, and I have noted some respected members on here who are pro's commenting themselves on how their wedding photography has improved over the last year or so, does this mean to say their earlier work was inferior and they shouldn't have been charging pro rates or even photographing a wedding????

On the other hand, I have seen threads on here from people, who clearly have not thought about what equipment they need to do a wedding or thought past the fact they are going to shoot a wedding at all!!!! That for me shows a real disrespect for the couple and people experienced or not, who are actually putting time and effort into their photography.

People entering the market (and I class myself in that bracket) are all (usually :naughty: ) adults, who should be responsible enough to know when they feel right and competent enough to begin their wedding photography career / part time job / way of funding upgrades to their equipment etc etc and are probably charging rates that reflect this - Therefore they should be no threat to seasoned pros, because they are in a totally different price bracket. If they screw things up, then yeah no one wants to see a couples day spoiled, but it is they that shall have to face the consequences and live with it on their conscious.

I like to think of the forum as a place for people to meet and most importantly share their views, experiences and advice with all other members. I would much rather just not respond to a thread if I don't think I can add anything constructive to it.
 
Steve Smith said:
When people ask these questions on this forum it is usually for equipment advice. Any ethical questions such as 'should they really be doing it?' are between them and the bride and groom.
.
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I agree ...But if they ask then....


I made a big mistake on a recent thread.. using the NEW POSTS button i saw a thread from someone saying they dont do wedding.. they have x y z equipment what would you do. NOT what should they do and not seeing it was in equipment.... i posted exactly what i would do.... then I found out later it was posted in the equipment area... i hadnt clicked and that threw a whole new light on the question...
 
FWIW - if I see a wedding post in the business forum then I approach it as a business question. If it's in the equipment forum, I'll approach it as an equipment question......
 
Radiohead said:
FWIW - if I see a wedding post in the business forum then I approach it as a business question. If it's in the equipment forum, I'll approach it as an equipment question......
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correct.. but when you use NEW POSTS and dont realise what forum its in then you can be missled... A lesson learnt for me today :)
 
Radiohead said:
FWIW - if I see a wedding post in the business forum then I approach it as a business question. If it's in the equipment forum, I'll approach it as an equipment question......
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KIPAX said:
I made a big mistake on a recent thread.. using the NEW POSTS button...
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That's a good point as I only ever use the NEW POSTS button and don't often read the post knowing which forum it is being asked in. It usually doesn't matter but sometimes it is relevant.





Steve.
 
The_Bulb said:
I have noted some respected members on here who are pro's commenting themselves on how their wedding photography has improved over the last year or so, does this mean to say their earlier work was inferior and they shouldn't have been charging pro rates or even photographing a wedding????
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Nope - I rather think it means if they are getting better, then their prices can justifiably go up :)

I doubt Mr Lovegrove et al started in business at their current £5,000 minimum, but as they improved and improved their services (added to gaining a rep for being good) they simply put their prices up

DD
 
Of course us pro's can strike back - I'm doing a wedding this weekend for free, maybe a few quid for beers but that's all.

Mwha ha ha... revenge is sweet! :lol:
 
pxl8 said:
Of course us pro's can strike back - I'm doing a wedding this weekend for free, maybe a few quid for beers but that's all.

Mwha ha ha... revenge is sweet! :lol:
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You swine - robbing a 'mate with a camera' of his first opportunity :nono:

:D

DD
 
KIPAX said:
correct.. but when you use NEW POSTS and dont realise what forum its in then you can be missled... A lesson learnt for me today :)
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Not misled. It still tells you, you're just not looking.

For what its worth, I would never comment on a "Should I do a wedding" thread as for me it is as simple as a "Should I claw my own eyes out thread"

But, each to their own...
 
The point I was making was that it doesn't really matter who gives the advice - it's the manner in which the advice is given. I don't deny some non-wedding togs can give good advice but it is logical that most people asking questions would be more likely to seek answers from someone who has experience in the field.

Elitism doesn't come into it. Comon sense and courtesy does.
 
I'm thinking about setting up a traditional wedding photography business but I can't decide which camera to use. I already have a Thornton Pickard half plate double extension model but I was thinking about buying a Kodak Masterview. Which do you think would be best?

Also I need some advice on flash powder. I have been using a 50 - 50 mixture of aluminium and magnesium but someone suggested I should use 60% magnesium. Also, is it o.k. to use highly explosive mixtures in churches?


Steve.
 
Over the years I have seen loads of threads from people who say things like" I just bought a camera and I have a wedding on Tuesday, what lens should I use" or something equally as basic. Or my all time favorite "what exposure should I use in the church?" What f*****g church! I'm tempted to say 10 seconds at F2.8 at 3200 iso just for fun.
Lets be honest here, theres no way on earth these people should be doing a wedding, if they don't know even the basics of photography.
Weddings can be very difficult, it's often raining or poor light, people can be difficult (or worse) equitment can fail. beginners may not be able to cope with this without proper planning and back up, and more importantly the people and photography skills needed, thats way some of us wedding togs give the very good advise to walk away, it's not because your taking money from me, most are not even in my area, it's because I don't want some beginner to screw up somebodies special day.
Wayne
 
swanseamale47 said:
Lets be honest here, theres no way on earth these people should be doing a wedding, if they don't know even the basics of photography.
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This is absolutely true in the cases you mention but these people don't post threads asking if they should be doing it, they ask how they should do it.


Steve.
 
Radiohead said:
So, we can't win.
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The thing is mate, you win the consideration of those who take advice from the experienced and lose the attention of those who would rather listen to the inexperienced.

Who's loss is that?

It's upsetting but sometimes we just have accept that there are folk who actually want to make mistakes in order to understand better.

There are people listening, learning and using the knowledge wisely.

As for the accusations of elitism, there is really nothing elitist in listening to the voice of experience. It's logic.

In the words of sorely missed George Carlin:

'There's a whole load of bull-**** in this world that needs to be identified and then avoided.'
 
Cool :thumbs: as soon as I saw the title with "weddings" in the the title I just knew we were
in for a Mexican stand off.Even a thread about "threads" was bound to cause argument

I don't "do" but have a passing interest in the advice given as one day who knows? I just "might"

I will be honest and just say that I have cherry picked my way around the thread
but a couple of points that I noted

When there is fierce completion you will always get conflict

ask 3 falconers for advice and you will most likely get 5 different answers
as for perceived elitism its no where stronger than the falconry world.

I can see both sides here, those "that do" I can understand their frustration
at trying to help when they get " what settings do I need?"

such a basic question for any form of togging, landscapes and the like, can be re-shot
if the setting are wrong. Weddings are a one hit only, and I agree that the "poster" in this instance should seriously re-consider their motives
and go and practise on something " less important" for awhile

There are a lot of very knowledgeable people on here and they ( mostly) are keen to help
and freely give ( generally) very good advice.
So I say to the enquirers you do need to meet these people at least "half way"

To "some" of the pro tog's I would say that those with a genuine need to learn maybe
Try not to be quite so harsh at times.
I know that its frustrating but I am speaking from experience, I have mentored a few would be falconers
and quite frankly sometimes wonder why I bother as
they would never make a falconer as long as they have a hole in their ass.

These people need to be politely and firmly dissuaded from continuing

Ah well there you have it I have been rambling quite long enough, and shall return to sitting firmly and squarely on the fence :D
 
Can you lot not see the irony of arguing on a thread about arguing on threads!!! :thinking::clap::clap::clap:
 
AliB said:
Can you lot not see the irony of arguing on a thread about arguing on threads!!! :thinking::clap::clap::clap:
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Nope - we're all American :naughty:

Anyway - I thought AliB had 'left the building' on Wedding threads? Or did you mean only those you don't start :thinking:

:)

DD
 
Radiohead said:
Where do you draw the line with that?

Anyone saying a lens is good who owns it has a vested interest?
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Erm, no, they don't :thinking:....but anyway....

Whenever anyone pitches in an opinion you should take into consideration and potential bias, pro wedding photographers advising people not to shoot weddings is no exception :) Not saying you should ignore everything they say, but it may save some frustration if you just accept that people won't believe what you say 100% for that reason.
 
mid_gen said:
Erm, no, they don't :thinking:....but anyway....

Whenever anyone pitches in an opinion you should take into consideration and potential bias, pro wedding photographers advising people not to shoot weddings is no exception :) Not saying you should ignore everything they say, but it may save some frustration if you just accept that people won't believe what you say 100% for that reason.
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I've read advice that people aren't ready and need to understand whats involved but never a blanket don't shoot weddings. :shrug:. Can you point to a pro tog saying that?

I think the frustration comes if you look at some of the fantastic advice that is given on here that just gets ignored by people who assume you are just giving that advice because of a vested interest.

I currently work 3 days a week for a pharma company and shoot weddings the rest of the time. This year it'll split my income 2/3rd pharma 1/3rd weddings. Next year the weddings make up more :D I'd gladly give advice - if I felt I'd be listened to - on either job, but to be candid I wish I'd had some of the advice on here as I started covering weddings.

Hugh
 
I'm not sure any Pro on here would give advice with any 'vested interest' - I very much doubt if any TP member could really be considered competition, let alone a threat to income, for any other TP member

Barnsley is a small place - yet there are almost 1,000 Weddings in this wee borough every year; sure many of them have Uncles or Mates with cameras, but there are also over 35 Pros hereabouts too

I can't imagine giving advice on here based on protecting my income interests, and I seriously doubt any others would consider it a problem too

Honestly, 'Weekend Warriors' aren't the problem many seem to think, and those doing Weddings for a mate who can't possibly afford a Pro are only doing a service to someone who wouldn't be our client anyway - we'd just like you to do it eyes open and well :thumbs:

DD
 
I have gleaned so much information from the wedding threads which has given me the confidence to do my first wedding this year. I knoiw one end of a camera from another and I've got good people skills and no, I'm not doing it form a sausage roll and a beer either. ;) I certainly would have said no if it wasn't for the wedding threads on here, I even gave DD a good grilling on Saturday! :D

It is a shame when they go down the tubes as most of them do contain some real gems of information and for that I'm grateful. :thumbs:
 
fabs said:
I certainly would have said no if it wasn't for the wedding threads on here, I even gave DD a good grilling on Saturday! :D

It is a shame when they go down the tubes as most of them do contain some real gems of information and for that I'm grateful. :thumbs:
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what you and Dave got up to on Saturday is nowt to do with the rest of us :D:D:D
 
DiddyDave said:
I'm not sure any Pro on here would give advice with any 'vested interest' - I very much doubt if any TP member could really be considered competition, let alone a threat to income, for any other TP member

Barnsley is a small place - yet there are almost 1,000 Weddings in this wee borough every year; sure many of them have Uncles or Mates with cameras, but there are also over 35 Pros hereabouts too

I can't imagine giving advice on here based on protecting my income interests, and I seriously doubt any others would consider it a problem too

Honestly, 'Weekend Warriors' aren't the problem many seem to think, and those doing Weddings for a mate who can't possibly afford a Pro are only doing a service to someone who wouldn't be our client anyway - we'd just like you to do it eyes open and well :thumbs:

DD
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So.....Dave.....gonna tel me yet :D;)
 
AliB said:
Can you lot not see the irony of arguing on a thread about arguing on threads!!! :thinking::clap::clap::clap:
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I did :thumbs:
Hence my "opening line" :D
 
DiddyDave said:
Nope - we're all American :naughty:

Anyway - I thought AliB had 'left the building' on Wedding threads? Or did you mean only those you don't start :thinking:

:)

DD
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This is my last one so I'm blooming well saying what I want. :D

My thread................all mine....mwah ha ha! :woot:
 
Tomas Whitehouse said:
As for the accusations of elitism, there is really nothing elitist in listening to the voice of experience. It's logic.

In the words of sorely missed George Carlin:

'There's a whole load of bull-**** in this world that needs to be identified and then avoided.'
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I agree there is nothing elitist in listening to the voice of experience. However what I found was leaning towards elitist were suggestions that no other opinion apart from that of a pro mattered.

Left Georges quote in there due to it's relevence, I like it.
 
RichardtheSane said:
I agree there is nothing elitist in listening to the voice of experience. However what I found was leaning towards elitist were suggestions that no other opinion apart from that of a pro mattered.
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I apologise richard I seem to have taken you the wrong way earlier .. Sorry.. big SORRY :).

Your saying exactly the same as me.. I agree 100% with you..
 
Ali is completely right of course, and probably totally wrong at the same time.

All advice given here has to be taken with a large dose of salt, when it comes to A wedding. As it's all down to the clients wishes and if we've not heard them ourselves, it's all guesswork.

If someone wants to be driven to the service in 1940's drop top roller, then no matter how great you think you are, in your perfect, worlds most expensive hummer limo, you're not up to the job.

If another bride just wants to go along with a friend, in whatever they have to drive, then that IS the right person for the job. Even if it's their first time driving.

General business advice obviously doesn't fit under the same rules.

The other point about most questions asked on the internet is that the asker will keep asking until the answer they want turns up. :lol:
 
My sister in law once told me to duck my head when I went down the stairs in her cottage. I cracked my head on the beam once and then I understood why she told me to duck.

My brother in law said I wasn't ready to go down the stairs on my own but I knew I had to get down there sometime and I accepted there might be things about it all that I didn't know.

I could have asked advice from someone who lived somewhere else but I'm not sure they would have helped much since they had never been down that staircase
 
RichardtheSane said:
I agree there is nothing elitist in listening to the voice of experience. However what I found was leaning towards elitist were suggestions that no other opinion apart from that of a pro mattered.

Left Georges quote in there due to it's relevence, I like it.
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Gotta love Carlin! :thumbs:

I see your point Rich, personally everyone's opinions matter to some extent with me, but when it comes to making developments and progression, I turn to the folk with experience predominantly. There's just too much BS in daily life to wade through as it is without having to decipher more.

If I had a water main burst, flooding the rooms of my gaff and saturating my delicates, I'd seek the help of someone who knows rather than someone who reckons.

During my years at secondary school I had a wood work teacher who was missing the tip of his index finger and had a constant blood stain in the corner of his overalls pocket.
Can you understand the fear in my heart when I was to be demo'd the correct use of power tools by this man?

Going back to the nature of George's worthy advice:

With every internet based community (and others too), there's folk who waffle and flap their lips without really knowing or understanding what's coming out exactly, they are entitled to do so but I have a hard time putting my trust in pontificators and speculators.
It's my livelihood at stake here :lol:

Can you trust the words of a photog when you've never seen any of their stuff? No matter how much it seems to originate from the bowels of common sense, I need to see the walk before I can buy the talk. :thumbs:

All MHO ;)
 
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