Wedding Threads

A

AliB

Suspended / Banned
Messages
7,762
Edit My Images
No
These are only my feelings on this subject.

I'm fed up with wedding threads degenerating into two factions.

One that thinks you can shoot a wedding on a box brownie and all of us who invest in good kit are snobs. Not only that but you obviously need no experience whatsoever.

Then the group who think that in order to do the job (and yes that IS what it is) justice you should invest in equipment, take your time learning not only your gear but the genre of wedding photography, invest in training and run it like a proper business.

One faction is never going to agree with the other.

So can we please stop all the sniping and points scoring?

I see people on here who openly claim that they would not shoot a wedding yet contribute in the most derogatory way to anyone who does and quite frankly I'm fed up with it.

It is becoming difficult if not impossible to contribute, even in the most helpful of ways to these threads and I'm fed up with being shot at every time I contribute. Somtimes the advice to not do it IS the right advice! Sometimes it is painfully obvious that the person is not ready to take on a wedding. It is a stressful occupation and one which not only demands high levels of technical skills but also people skills. It is not to be rushed into, you can't mess it up.

So please, people, take a minute and if you really don't like the advice given by the long suffering pros on here (I don't include myself in that) then take a minute to consider WHY they might just be saying the same thing several times over.

They might just have the experience to know what they are talking about. :bang:

Normal service will be resumed shortly. :)
 
AliB said:
One faction is never going to agree with the other.

So can we please stop all the sniping and points scoring?
Click to expand...


I dont see how thats ever going to happen.. given the above two sentances you have written :)
 
KIPAX said:
I dont see how thats ever going to happen.. given the above two sentances you have written :)
Click to expand...

Quite easy, SHUT UP! :D

Seriously, if people don't have anything positive to contribute.......step away from the keyboard!

It would be a great improvement over people constantly restating their opinions. We heard it the first time and saying the same thing over and over again does not make it right. :cuckoo:
 
AliB said:
One that thinks you can shoot a wedding on a box brownie and all of us who invest in good kit are snobs. Not only that but you obviously need no experience whatsoever.

Then the group who think that in order to do the job (and yes that IS what it is) justice you should invest in equipment, take your time learning not only your gear but the genre of wedding photography, invest in training and run it like a proper business.
Click to expand...

Now, I could be wrong but I have a feeling that I know which side of the debate you're on.

But you're right - I hardly ever even read the wedding threads on here now. They all seem to wind up going the same way.

I blame the ...
 
AliB said:
We heard it the first time and saying the same thing over and over again does not make it right.
Click to expand...

Yes but the original poster of these threads may not have heard (read) it before.


Steve.
 
If they read almost any wedding thread on here, they would! lol

Point taken. :)
 
I've written this thread for a reason though.

It will be my last contribution on the subject of weddings. :)
 
AliB said:
Seriously, if people don't have anything positive to contribute.......step away from the keyboard!
Click to expand...


who decides if its a postive contribution? ...the problem you seem to be having is that everyone is different... we all see things in a different way..:)
 
AliB said:
I see people on here who openly claim that they would not shoot a wedding yet contribute in the most derogatory way to anyone who does and quite frankly I'm fed up with it.
Click to expand...

I agree but it happens all over the place, not just wedding threads, it's just the general nature of some folk, they don't mean any harm by their compulsiveness but fail to see that it's of no use to anyone.

AliB said:
So please, people, take a minute and if you really don't like the advice given by the long suffering pros on here (I don't include myself in that) then take a minute to consider WHY they might just be saying the same thing several times over.

They might just have the experience to know what they are talking about. :bang:
Click to expand...

:clap: Couldn't agree more. To be be quite blunt, I cherish the more experienced advice, opinions and guidance. I would advise others to act likewise.

I worry that all this whinging, defensive behavior and retaliation will eventually wear them down and stop them from contributing.
 
AliB said:
They might just have the experience to know what they are talking about. :bang:
Click to expand...

They probably have....but it doesn't change the fact that you have a vested interest in the subject and most rational people will (rightly) always take what you have to say on the matter with a pinch of salt! Don't take it personally.

My tuppenth :)
 
That's the point though!

If you write a post about wedding photography and you are based in Hammersmith, it's absolutely no threat to me. I'm responsible for my own business, my own photography. I'm not vain enough to think for one moment that I have any influence over anyone else who decides to do it. I've tried giving helpful advice and I'm fed up being insulted, told we are all rolling around in pots of money, ripping people off, gear snobs, crap photographers and any other insult imagineable.

If anyone wants any advice from me from now on, it will still be freely given but they will just have to Pm me. :)

I won't be contributing any more.
 
mid_gen said:
They probably have....but it doesn't change the fact that you have a vested interest in the subject and most rational people will (rightly) always take what you have to say on the matter with a pinch of salt! Don't take it personally.

My tuppenth :)
Click to expand...

Where do you draw the line with that?

Anyone saying a lens is good who owns it has a vested interest?

I'm with AliB on this - we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. I'm constantly amazed that we are criticised for taking what we do seriously. It goes back to comments I've made earlier where people need to grow some stones and take the advice being given without taking it personally. The answer to every wedding thread is not going to be 'go for it, what's the worst that can happen'.

That's about as useful as the 'great shot' response to photos.

I'm worn out by it all.
 
i agree with the pros, it a lot of hardwork. and when you get the A***hole customer and terrible conditions or a failure, the pros will deal with it and keep going.

i do understand the market seems to have segregated recently as well, as in "credit crunch" weddings and "normal" weddings. the only problem comes from the credit crunchers expecting the "normal" wedding quality and service.

my advice to all. if you are confident you can do it, and got the necesary kit to cope with the conditions, the bride and groom are happy with your experience and what they might get, then go for it(if you are being given any money towards it, make sure you have some insurance in place just in case). if not, back away and let someone who can do it better handle the hassle:thumbs:
 
I think the factions are irrelevant here. I think the point that needs to be made is that there are a number of people who's responses are just negative and unhelpful. ie. "You've been asked to do a wedding? Well don't even think about it"

Perhaps what would be more useful would be "you've been asked to do a wedding? Well done - you must have impressed someone enough for them to ask. However, if you haven't done it before there are a lot of thing you are going to need to know about in order to make it a sucessful day ... blah blah"

If you're a pro tog then it makes no odds what gear you use - the fact you're a pro means you understand the kit you have and know how to turn it to good use, also that you understand the wedding business. So when Mr Newbie comes along with a D40 and is planning to shoot a wedding - instead of completely knocking him off his high, what's wrong with simply advising of the best way to use what he has and explain why most wedding togs would have more to work with.

This forum works pretty well in most cases. People ask questions and others offer answers and opinions. It just seems to be the wedding thing where some people come accross as being less than contructive (it may not be intended that way but it certainly comes accross that way)

Perhaps AliB has the right idea - if anyone wants helpful and realistic advice there are certain individuals on the forum who will happily reply to PMs on the subject. Perhaps there needs to be a 'sticky' in the forum directing newbies to address questions to a list of voluteers who are happy to help with wedding questions. That way we won't need to get into the same old same old everytime.
 
I have also seen the wedding threads degenerate in entirely unhelpful ways.

I always try to offer helpful advice - I'm not a wedding pro and I would not do weddings. I have however been in business as a photographer in the past and I know when to turn a job down.

I see too many replies based only on what the OP has started with, when in fact more clarification is needed on the job before judgement can be passed. If there is not enough information there ASK FOR MORE before you reply.
 
AndyB said:
I think the factions are irrelevant here. I think the point that needs to be made is that there are a number of people who's responses are just negative and unhelpful. ie. "You've been asked to do a wedding? Well don't even think about it"
Click to expand...

Sometimes with good reason. There's a big difference between someone who wants to make a go of it and asks as such, and those who simply see it as a way to make a fast buck.

And some of the questions show that some, not all, are woefully underprepared.
 
Perhaps we should have an elite set of wedding pros and only allow them to answer questions ?

But seriously... for example.. a NONE weding photographer asks the whole of TP what they would do on being offered a wedding... I as a person scared of doing wedding would run a mile.. so being asked the question I answer honestly that i would run a mile..

It seems to me that all you pro wedding togs are now saying people like me shouldnt be allowed to make a reply..
 
Nope, but for the same reasons that I'd think very carefully about replying to a 'I'm shooting my first football match for money' posts.....I've never done one, I might run a mile, I might not. But I'd let others with far more experience take the lead and listen to them. But at the same time, it seems acceptable for someone who doesn't shoot weddings to tell someone to not do it, but not for a wedding pro to give the same advice.

People might not like it, but people that shoot weddings for a living have more knowledge, expertise and advice to give on the subject of weddings. Some of that advice might be tough love, but that's a different matter entirely!
 
Radiohead said:
People might not like it, but people that shoot weddings for a living have more knowledge, expertise and advice to give on the subject of weddings. Some of that advice might be tough love, but that's a different matter entirely!
Click to expand...

But surely a none wedding photographer looking for advice on wether to take a job or not will want advice from other none wedding photographers as well..

The world and TP is made up of very different people with very different views and different advice.. all can be given wiht the best intentions... But it seems a few people around here have decided that only pro wedding togs should offer the advice... Sorry but that stinks of eliteism :( and I dont care if its spelt wrong :)
 
Maybe, but if they've never done one either how valuable is that advice in all honesty?

If I was asking about that football match I'd want advice from people who've been at the sharp end. People like you, and not a bunch of wedding togs.

Where you get the idea that this is some sort of elitism is beyond me. A thread full of wedding advice from people who've never shot one seems fairly useless to me.
 
Radiohead said:
Nope, but for the same reasons that I'd think very carefully about replying to a 'I'm shooting my first football match for money' posts.....I've never done one, I might run a mile, I might not. But I'd let others with far more experience take the lead and listen to them. But at the same time, it seems acceptable for someone who doesn't shoot weddings to tell someone to not do it, but not for a wedding pro to give the same advice.

People might not like it, but people that shoot weddings for a living have more knowledge, expertise and advice to give on the subject of weddings. Some of that advice might be tough love, but that's a different matter entirely!
Click to expand...



I shoot weddings and people on here have told me I don't have the knowledge or expertise but I still shoot weddings and in fact took another booking just an hour ago after they viewed my portfolio and after being recommended.

lol
 
And what does that tell you?

That you're good enough and have a portfolio to back it up.
 
Radiohead said:
And what does that tell you?

That you're good enough and have a portfolio to back it up.
Click to expand...

Why thank you:nuts:


but still some peeps on here dont think so lol

so I say ''pants'' and just get on with my life.
 
Seriously though. I could tell you you're not good enough (I'm not btw) and what would it matter. Paying customers think otherwise.

Good job :)
 
Radiohead said:
If I was asking about that football match I'd want advice from people who've been at the sharp end. People like you, and not a bunch of wedding togs.
Click to expand...

if you where to pose the question that you had been asked to do a football match and you only have wide angle equipment.. why wouldnt a wedding tog telling you your equipment would be useless run a mile... be valid advice?


Radiohead said:
Where you get the idea that this is some sort of elitism is beyond me. A thread full of wedding advice from people who've never shot one seems fairly useless to me.
Click to expand...

depends on the question.. if someone asks the best way to shoot a wedding they are doing.. the best lineups or lighting.. i wouldnt even try to answer.. but if someone who like me!!! hasnt done one and asks... what would you do givent x y z? then i would answer..

your saying wedding threads should only be answered by experienced wedding togs..... noooo thats not right..
 
Radiohead said:
Maybe, but if they've never done one either how valuable is that advice in all honesty?

If I was asking about that football match I'd want advice from people who've been at the sharp end. People like you, and not a bunch of wedding togs.

Where you get the idea that this is some sort of elitism is beyond me. A thread full of wedding advice from people who've never shot one seems fairly useless to me.
Click to expand...

I disagree.

If advice is well thought out from someone with a good smattering of common sense then it is very valuable - and quite often also impartial. The fact that you appear to be saying that this would be of no use IS elitism.
 
KIPAX said:
if you where to pose the question that you had been asked to do a football match and you only have wide angle equipment.. why wouldnt a wedding tog telling you your equipment would be useless run a mile... be valid advice?
Click to expand...

I'd put that in the common sense category to be honest.


KIPAX said:
depends on the question.. if someone asks the best way to shoot a wedding they are doing.. the best lineups or lighting.. i wouldnt even try to answer.. but if someone who like me!!! hasnt done one and asks... what would you do givent x y z? then i would answer..

your saying wedding threads should only be answered by experienced wedding togs..... noooo thats not right..
Click to expand...

No I'm not saying that at all. I;m saying that it's just possible that the advice we give, warts and all, maybe carries a little more weight. No?
 
Radiohead said:
No I'm not saying that at all. I;m saying that it's just possible that the advice we give, warts and all, maybe carries a little more weight. No?
Click to expand...

Absoloulty agree wiht you.... but and this is the big BUT! ..it doesnt mean other peoples views should be supressed :( Like I say.. its a big world.. we all have views and we may post them with the best intentions.. but then along comes the elite few saying we should all shut up and only they should answer... thats just sad and thats exactly what this thread is saying :(
 
RichardtheSane said:
I disagree.

If advice is well thought out from someone with a good smattering of common sense then it is very valuable - and quite often also impartial. The fact that you appear to be saying that this would be of no use IS elitism.
Click to expand...

See my common sense response above.

To clarify:

'I'm shooting my first wedding and have one body and a 400mm f2.8' - common sense replies ahoy.

'I'm shooting my first wedding. I've got this lot, have sorted out a contract with the couple and have been to see the location. I'm a little nervous and should do with some advice regarding managing groups, timings etc. - experienced wedding shooters ahoy.

As always with these damn threads people put words into our mouths, and like Godwin's Law for wedding shooters, accusations of elitism are slung around.
 
RichardtheSane said:
If advice is well thought out from someone with a good smattering of common sense then it is very valuable - and quite often also impartial. The fact that you appear to be saying that this would be of no use IS elitism.
Click to expand...


oh good god man!!! when or where have i said good advice is no use... good grief :( :(
 
KIPAX said:
Absoloulty agree wiht you.... but and this is the big BUT! ..it doesnt mean other peoples views should be supressed :( Like I say.. its a big world.. we all have views and we may post them with the best intentions.. but then along comes the elite few saying we should all shut up and only they should answer... thats just sad and thats exactly what this thread is saying :(
Click to expand...

NO I'M NOT saying that.

I'm simply saying that if I, as a wedding photographer, come along and my honest response is 'walk away, you're under-prepared, whatever' then almost by default will I accused of being elitist. It's not often I actually say that, by the way.

So, we can't win.
 
KIPAX said:
It seems to me that all you pro wedding togs are now saying people like me shouldnt be allowed to make a reply..
Click to expand...

I hope you didn't include me in that sweeping statement :nono:

Of course you can reply




You're just wrong :lol:

JOKE !!!

DD
 
DiddyDave said:
I hope you didn't include me in that sweeping statement :nono:

Of course you can reply




You're just wrong :lol:

JOKE !!!

DD
Click to expand...


:) my sweeping statment is aimed at the thread.. not at anyone :)
 
KIPAX said:
oh good god man!!! when or where have i said good advice is no use... good grief :( :(
Click to expand...

Where or when did I imply you said good advice is of no use?
 
RichardtheSane said:
Where or when did I imply you said good advice is of no use?
Click to expand...

here

RichardtheSane said:
If advice is well thought out from someone with a good smattering of common sense then it is very valuable - and quite often also impartial. The fact that you appear to be saying that this would be of no use IS elitism.
Click to expand...

I am saying no such thing and to be honest a sensible debate just deteriorates when it comes down to stuff like this :(
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top