Wedding shoot with a twist

artona said:
Some interesting answers. We do not know if the bride has asked the mother to call. Commercial portrait and wedding photography is all about making the subject look better.

Before we stick the axe into the mother too much I am sure she was just getting her message over.....................the bride wants to look a little thinner. Now if every women (and a lot of men too) don't want that then why are the mag shelves heaving with slimming magazines?


stew
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Some good points here but a drop from a size 16 to a 10 is hardly a 'little thinner.' That's a vast difference.

Another thing to keep in mind is, how many photographs does this PP-fest include? By the nature of a wedding, the bride features in a vast number of photos from the big day so I'm taking it that if she magically drops 4 dress sizes for a few photos, you'll either have to do all of them or there'll be a jarring difference and it'll look as if she had a badly selected body-double for half the day's events.
 
zoom said:
Some good points here but a drop from a size 16 to a 10 is hardly a 'little thinner.' That's a vast difference.

Another thing to keep in mind is, how many photographs does this PP-fest include? By the nature of a wedding, the bride features in a vast number of photos from the big day so I'm taking it that if she magically drops 4 dress sizes for a few photos, you'll either have to do all of them or there'll be a jarring difference and it'll look as if she had a badly selected body-double for half the day's events.
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you are right of course, if just a few show a thinner bride it will look odd. Of course if the OP is an experienced pro he will have shot to make the bride look great in camera so it should not be too much work. If he didn't then he has a lot of work ahead. Not attacking the OP as I do not know him

stew
 
artona said:
Now if every women (and a lot of men too) don't want that then why are the mag shelves heaving with slimming magazines?


stew
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That's a whole different dabate Stew! But my very short answer would be in a vain attempt to shoehorn everyone over a size zero into fitting into the very same distorted body image promulgated by the likes of Nuts and Zoo. Witness the recent backlash against Ralph Lauren who have had to distance themselves from some rather over eager PP work.

And as for being in the business to make money. Of course that is true but personally I would not take a penny from doing this because is one of those things that could potentially go either way and could cost business in the future and I don't think it's worth the risk.
 
Earlier this year a bride asked us to close the gap in her husbands front teeth, our reply was yes we will do it but he won't look like the man you just married!

We did a quick sample for her and as soon as she saw it she scrapped the idea.
 
AliB said:
That's a whole different dabate Stew! But my very short answer would be in a vain attempt to shoehorn everyone over a size zero into fitting into the very same distorted body image promulgated by the likes of Nuts and Zoo. Witness the recent backlash against Ralph Lauren who have had to distance themselves from some rather over eager PP work.

And as for being in the business to make money. Of course that is true but personally I would not take a penny from doing this because is one of those things that could potentially go either way and could cost business in the future and I don't think it's worth the risk.
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The size 0 is very much a different debate Ali I agree.

stew
 
Tell her no.....thats her daughter and thats it........end of. Would rather 'p' off the mother than cause a major rift in the family.
 
Silly me. I thought the customer was always right. If the mother wants it done, and you obviously know nothing about her reasons or justification - and she's paying - then who are you to make moral judgements about her? So a bit of nip and tuck is fine, but some more extensive carving is not? Who says? When does right mysteriously change into wrong?

I don't like it either, but TBH my only professional concern is that it would be technically very difficult to go from a 16 to 10 and make it look real. That would then reflect badly on you, but I would take it as far as I could for the paying client.

However, if you object to this on personal moral grounds, ie it offends you and is not something you want to be associated with, that is different. But I don't think you should try and impose your own moral judgement on others. Be professional, do it, get paid, that was the deal.

In future, in order to avoid this kind of difficultly, I think you should put a clause in your trading terms making it clear where you stand morally. No pregnant brides, no divorcees, no mothers or adulters, no ugly munters and certainly no fat birds.
 
:lol:.........:thumbs:
 
HoppyUK said:
Silly me. I thought the customer was always right. If the mother wants it done, and you obviously know nothing about her reasons or justification - and she's paying - then who are you to make moral judgements about her? So a bit of nip and tuck is fine, but some more extensive carving is not? Who says? When does right mysteriously change into wrong?

I don't like it either, but TBH my only professional concern is that it would be technically very difficult to go from a 16 to 10 and make it look real. That would then reflect badly on you, but I would take it as far as I could for the paying client.

However, if you object to this on personal moral grounds, ie it offends you and is not something you want to be associated with, that is different. But I don't think you should try and impose your own moral judgement on others. Be professional, do it, get paid, that was the deal.

In future, in order to avoid this kind of difficultly, I think you should put a clause in your trading terms making it clear where you stand morally. No pregnant brides, no divorcees, no mothers or adulters, no ugly munters and certainly no fat birds.
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:lol::lol::lol:

love the last sentance
 
my personal opinon is one no way

why would you ask to do something like this

what effects would it have to potential clientel

this could cause you lots of issues very bad one's every bride that found out you can do this will expect you to do the same

and if it comes out wrong it's your reputation on the line

def a no no
 
wegotitugetit said:
my personal opinon is one no way

why would you ask to do something like this

what effects would it have to potential clientel

this could cause you lots of issues very bad one's every bride that found out you can do this will expect you to do the same

and if it comes out wrong it's your reputation on the line

def a no no
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Brilliant grasp of the moral dilemma.
 
Just thought I would stick my oar in on this one. Of you alter the bride so heavily are the shots not gonna just look unnatural?

As others have said I would have thought this could end up backfiring on you and damaging your reputation.

Also this is going to involve a lot of pp work which presumably was not agreed on in your original contract?
 
I'm a big lass, if my Mam did that there'd be hell on!

Maybe ask why she wants you to do that?

It's plausable that for some reason the bride had issues with her weight and is a little upset (like an illness for eg and where she used to be thinner, she's not now). Maybe suggest that any bumps etc be smoothed but overall, it's unethical IMHO.

Personally if they were my pics, things like bumps smoothed, arms tucked a little, colours smoothed, that's fine. Things that are subtle but will enhance the image, but to do that....well it's unethical. My gut feeling is that the mother wants to shame the daughter into losing weight TBH
 
snapalot said:
Earlier this year a bride asked us to close the gap in her husbands front teeth, our reply was yes we will do it but he won't look like the man you just married!

We did a quick sample for her and as soon as she saw it she scrapped the idea.
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Thats interesting... Perhaps the OP should look into doing somthing along these lines...

Although I agree that photoshopping someones weight is very wrong.
 
I'm not sure I see the issue as being as complex as most here. As a business person, you should do all that you can to satisfy the customer. Which in this case I would see as the couple getting married, even if someone else is paying.

If I was requested to alter the images by anyone else other than the couple, I would tell them only the customer could authorise alterations.

This is the perfect place for us to debate the moral and ethical aspects of these requests but if the client wants the image adjusted, in my book, it should be done. After all, what gives anyone the right to remove their choice?
 
Update - spoke with the Mother of the bride today, she only wants the changes done to the few prints she wants for herself.

I have explained I cant get her daughter looking that thin, shes asked me to do what I can, also to touch up her own face in the main bridal party shots to take her wrinkles out !!!!

this is just getting bloody silly.

I would love to post a few shoots, but for obvious reasons would never do that.
 
EOS_JD said:
Although I can see the morals of everyone here, at the end of the day as a photographer, we need to be in the market to make money. Yes I would be horrified too BUT my morals are put to one side when dealing with clients.
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I disagree with you. Sure I'm in bussiness to make money, but I won't sacrifice my morals and ethics to do so. As soon as you start doing this you end up in the sort of mess the banks did.

For what its worth, I wouldn't touch this request and would politley and firmly turn it down. I photograph people, not what somebodies mother wishes them to be.

Hugh
 
Tell her you are a Photographer, not a Special Effects company and does not offer such services.
 
boyfalldown said:
I disagree with you. Sure I'm in bussiness to make money, but I won't sacrifice my morals and ethics to do so. As soon as you start doing this you end up in the sort of mess the banks did.

For what its worth, I wouldn't touch this request and would politley and firmly turn it down. I photograph people, not what somebodies mother wishes them to be.

Hugh
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I appreciate your view. Many photographers are faced with moral dilemas when taking images Even shooting portraits and weddings there are dilemas for those who have particular beliefs. I don't have any particular beliefs but if I believe something is very wrong and could hurt someone I would stay away. Having seen that the MOB is asking for this for herself, I'd be inclined to say NO THANKS as well (unless she gets her daughter's consent to change it).

I have been asked by many brides to make them look slimmer (which I've done to a few images), to fill in missing teeth (I see I'm not the only one with that)! We all change images in a number of ways and so long as the client are happy, I would pretty much try anything they request - When the request comes from someone else though I'd be inclined to say no (which I believe I said in my original post). - You decided not to use that part of my post.

JD
 
I think the biggest issues here is what other people are going to say when they see the photos, you may get the "Oh he did a lovely job, Doris looks wonderful" or you may get "Oh he was crap, Doris looks painfully thin" What they say if they see both sets of pics and the difference is anybodies guess.
 
We "improve" loads of our images. I reckon the words most mirrors hear is "I don't look like that do, I am not that fat".

Womens minds stop at age 18, they do not accept aging after that. Even though they may be size 16 they still see size 10.

So whats photoshop for - its for creating a mind-like view :D:D:D:D:D

Womens minds stop at age 18, we men are just as bad. It took me seeing myself in a photo earlier this year to accept that 24s 7lb really was double the size of most people. I have now shed almost 3st, gee I feel better.

artona
 
This is probably the one and only time the mother has the chance to buy some professional photographs of her family. So she sees some wrinkles and a little extra weight, and thinks, "why not make us look a bit better"? These photos will probably take pride of place in her house, and get shown to visitors, and she wants to look as good as possible. Don't we all?

There are no issues around consent if you've retained copyright in the images. If you're being paid for your time, take the money and do whatever they want. As long as you're happy to put your name to the quality of the work (ie only thin down the daughter by as much that she still looks human), the only ethics here are whether or not you're letting your customers down by not giving them what they want.
 
artona said:
Womens minds stop at age 18, they do not accept aging after that. Even though they may be size 16 they still see size 10.
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I know you have lost weight Stew and well done on that from the health benefits but I have to say mate, that's one heck of a generalisation on how women think!

I have found a few who have somewhat robust body image but lots and lots who don't. Have you ever watched "how to look good naked"? I'd wager that young Gok would tell you different. :thinking:

And when dealing with such sensitive issues then step very, very carefully!
 
I would do it. If she wants to spend that much, she will only buy a large print form you, and then pay someone else to alter it afterwwards. And regardless of copyright, someone will do it for her. take the money, buy don't go OTT.
 
AliB said:
I know you have lost weight Stew and well done on that from the health benefits but I have to say mate, that's one heck of a generalisation on how women think!

I have found a few who have somewhat robust body image but lots and lots who don't. Have you ever watched "how to look good naked"? I'd wager that young Gok would tell you different. :thinking:

And when dealing with such sensitive issues then step very, very carefully!
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Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus :D:D Gok just has not worked it out yet :D:D:D

stew
 
My biggest issue with this would be forget about the moral side, what about your reputation if the bride didn't want it? I'd definitely wait for her say so first. If she was the instigator then it's down to whether or not you are morally ok with it. And then just add whatever hefty charge that you should invoice them for making you do something as rediculous as this!
 
biggreyhorse said:
Update - spoke with the Mother of the bride today, she only wants the changes done to the few prints she wants for herself.

I have explained I cant get her daughter looking that thin, shes asked me to do what I can, also to touch up her own face in the main bridal party shots to take her wrinkles out !!!!

this is just getting bloody silly.

I would love to post a few shoots, but for obvious reasons would never do that.
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Even if its just for her I still wouldn't, people will end up seeing them anyway.

As for the wrinkles, don't touch them but say you did :D that should put the frighteners up her :p
 
To the OP: Make the bride bigger lol

Joking aside, I'd say no. I value my referrals and having done a great job I could ruin the bride's perception of me in no time at all by doing something like this.

From what the OP has said, the mother of the bride is moments away from causing her daughter much distress - I would happily let someone else take the work on and deal with that, not me, I've got better things to do.
 
Has nobody considered that it might be a private joke or something? Unlikely but... we are speculating here.
 
I have watched ''how to look good naked' and none of them look good....they just are told they do and they beleive the hype.
 
To me this is ethically incorrect. Of course looking money wise, you should do it, since it will earn you a fair bit of extra cash and let them worry about it, but in a personal matter.... NO WAY! It is sick! How could a mother want to change her daughters WEDDING photos.

Wrong :/
 
If you "enhance" her to look slimmer in a few shots, it will make her look larger in others and she may then dislike the rest.

Anyway, my experience is that women only ever get larger after marriage, and they tend to be more than happy with whatever their size was on the Big Day, several years later.
 
no way. i cant see what use an edited picture of the bride could have, it sounds a little bit sick tbh. then again no one knows the full story, so i guess if it was me, id tell the mum that i'd only do that type of editing if i spoke to the bride and it was what she wanted, for whatever reasons.
 
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