wedding package

[santana007]

Hi

just finished off a weedding package form august ..

the mother in -law came round to pay for the parent album she had !

we gave her a free dvd picture disc set to music and insisted on giving us an extra £50 for it . she said they were all so happy with what had been put together was fantastic .. and we should charge more ...

the thing is i don`t do rip off

we charged around £1000 for this wedding .. we made around £500 ..

ok editing work not taken into account , but to be paid for something you love to do ..... when you don`t have to work is fantastic ......... isnt it ...i just feel we are going wrong somewhere


Rog

 

[sportysnaps]

well done and congratulations - it's really nice when someone really likes the work you do - to me a thank you is worth a lot and an unexpected cash bonus ( i have had one of these to) makes you feel really good.

just out of interest, the £500 you spent in costs; what did this break down as as this seems a lot for an album and printing

 

[GeorgeFirth]

Awaiting to find out the answer to the anbove question!

 

[artona]

It makes you wonder doesn't it? You could do a wedding for £500 to include a dvd of all the images and make about 39p less with a whole lot less work

 

[jolsterj]

I too would like to see the breakdown if I charged £1000 I would make more than £500.

 

[Agger]

I did one recently and did'nt charge the Bride I work with and her Dad is a long time friend, had to tavel about 180miles each way, spent 11 hours at the venue for the wedding, reception and evening do, went back the next day to drop of a flash drive with the images on. I downloaded all wedding photo's pretty much as I shot them and displayed them on a 24" inch and a lappy. For this I got fed on the day £35 for petrol and a £50 voucher, which was much more than I had asked for, I was well pleased with that. I heard nothing but good comments about the photo's I had taken using a 5d with 85mm f1.2 and a d Mk111 with a 17/40 also had a 10d with a 70/200 f2.8 and a tripod with a quick release. I could'nt charge anyone £1000 for what is a pretty simple job, I see people "doing" weddings with compacts FFS and charhing £650 with no album:shrug:

Also used a 50mm f1.2

My moral charge what your happy with, but don't rip people off

 

[artona]

Sounds fun, what do you do for a living?

 

[PeteStewardson]

just out of interest, the £500 you spent in costs; what did this break down as as this seems a lot for an album and printing

Surely that depends on the album. A 40 page 16x12 album with an acrylic cover would eat up most of £500 quickly...

 

[PeteStewardson]

I did one recently and did'nt charge the Bride I work with and her Dad is a long time friend, had to tavel about 180miles each way, spent 11 hours at the venue for the wedding, reception and evening do, went back the next day to drop of a flash drive with the images on. I downloaded all wedding photo's pretty much as I shot them and displayed them on a 24" inch and a lappy. For this I got fed on the day £35 for petrol and a £50 voucher, which was much more than I had asked for, I was well pleased with that. I heard nothing but good comments about the photo's I had taken using a 5d with 85mm f1.2 and a d Mk111 with a 17/40 also had a 10d with a 70/200 f2.8 and a tripod with a quick release. I could'nt charge anyone £1000 for what is a pretty simple job, I see people "doing" weddings with compacts FFS and charhing £650 with no album:shrug:

My moral charge what your happy with, but don't rip people off

You don't earn a living from photography do you? Some people actually do this as a job, and even £1000 from a wedding wont keep you in business.

Pete

 

[Agger]

I work in a warehouse for a pittance I'm 55 and would'nt / could'nt rip people off, there ar'nt many of us decent people left

You don't earn a living from photography do you? Some people actually do this as a job, and even £1000 from a wedding wont keep you in business.

Pete

 

[jolsterj]

I dont charge near a thousand pound but there is a market out there and people charge what people are prepared to pay.

A £1000 for wedding pics is pretty average.

 

[Agger]

I agree but thats because the people doing it are greedy and chasing money, whilst the people who pay them know no better and perceive they will get a better package for the more they pay. I've seen some very average shots from people charging £1500 and I've been to the same venue's so speak from experience (which is part of the problem as you have people with little or no experience thinking because they have a digi slr they are pro's, far from it takes a while for that to happen in most cases anyway)

I dont charge near a thousand pound but there is a market out there and people charge what people are prepared to pay.

A £1000 for wedding pics is pretty average.

 

[santana007]

well done and congratulations - it's really nice when someone really likes the work you do - to me a thank you is worth a lot and an unexpected cash bonus ( i have had one of these to) makes you feel really good.

just out of interest, the £500 you spent in costs; what did this break down as as this seems a lot for an album and printing

hI GUYS

the bulk of the money going out was for a digital album A4 100 page and a parent album hard back same as the main wedding album . sim2000 metal cover . i know some people charge £1500 for this kind of album .
the dvd set to music is nothing , disc £1 and a fancy cover £4 . it`s so cheap to put together , but looks great as a gift from us to them .
working it out again it was closer to £600 we made . i`m happy with what we made and yep to get a nice comment is better than a back hander .

we charge £250 for coverage . no hidden charges and we won`t do night time . then we make a little on Albums , we put a little on the albums to cover the work done on edditing . and extra`s sold if they want them .

the couple have said they would like a canvas , so that will take the profit up a bit more . + they are coming over for portraits again . so from the one family it is the spin off`s as well .

i hate gold /silver/bronze package etc .
and would never consider just giving photo`s on a disc . i want my work to have a wow factor so when others look they want to book us .
it was just the comment that we had not charged enough . it makes you think , should we charge more . but thinking about it and the answer is no .
i never earned anything like that kind of money in one day before . and to be paid for something you love doing is fantastic .

when she brought us the money last night , she said her son in Ireland said " do you think they would come over and do the photo`s for our wedding "
my answer was yes " but we would have to add travel and hotel .

she said he wants to come and discuss it with us at xmas . so all in all i think it was a result .

Rog

 

[jolsterj]

Well done there Rog its all good.


I totally agree with AGGER ABOUT RUBBISH TOGS CHARGING £1500 BUT SURELY the client would want to look at portfolios of previous weddings before deciding on a tog.


[sorry about my caps]

 

[PeteStewardson]

I work in a warehouse for a pittance I'm 55 and would'nt / could'nt rip people off, there ar'nt many of us decent people left

Basing a price simply on hours worked ( 2 hours time to meet a client before the wedding at a minimum, 12-18 hours of shooting time including travelling time, time to visit the venue before hand to check the place out for shooting locations etc, time spent on the phone checking details with other vendors ) I don't see how you can say someone charging £1000 for a wedding is ripping people off.

Oh and I haven't included in that travel expenses, photographic equipment costs ( which runs into many thousands for anyone seriously doing weddings ), Computer equipment ( including software), media ( backups, and drives to hold all the data ), other back office tasks, oh and hosting for a website to keep an online presence and for client proofing.

And even more, I haven't included the hours of retouching work that goes into photos people order prints and albums of. Or the cost of a quality album...

I'm tired now, and as an asside I think I've just convinced myself I need to put my prices UP...

Pete

 

[santana007]

Well done there Rog its all good.


I totally agree with AGGER ABOUT RUBBISH TOGS CHARGING £1500 BUT SURELY the client would want to look at portfolios of previous weddings before deciding on a tog.


[sorry about my caps]

cheers m8


there are some fantastic pro togs out there , some one TP . jason cole`s work blows me away .
i`m not saying what some charge is wrong . i agree when it is a main income , you have to charge more . i`m lucky at 48 that i don`t have to go out to work .

at the moment i get my work via word of mouth so no advertising cost`s .but i want to try and turn it into a small business so my wife can down grade in her job .

we have been to a few wedding fairs and have seen the same bride in many albums . i`m sure they have been put together on some course and the bride and groom were actors . so with no real experience they charge £1500 for an album . so a couple go along and think wow . but these weddings albums are put together in false conditions with no real pressure of a big day .

we have real weddings we show in our portfolio .

also with the public some people want to say how much they have paid for something .

example - a woman at school said you should see the photo`s Roger(me) has done of the boys . the reply from the person she was talking to was . we had ours done at venture we had won a free portrait sitting . the one we brought is fantastic it was £1000 but they gave us easy payment terms . fcuk me £1000 for one big photo with 4 little ones in the same frame.

people pay it so they can say oh yes we had ours done at venture .. i just don`t get it .

Rog

 

[jolsterj]

Basing a price simply on hours worked ( 2 hours time to meet a client before the wedding at a minimum, 12-18 hours of shooting time including travelling time, time to visit the venue before hand to check the place out for shooting locations etc, time spent on the phone checking details with other vendors ) I don't see how you can say someone charging £1000 for a wedding is ripping people off.

Oh and I haven't included in that travel expenses, photographic equipment costs ( which runs into many thousands for anyone seriously doing weddings ), Computer equipment ( including software), media ( backups, and drives to hold all the data ), other back office tasks, oh and hosting for a website to keep an online presence and for client proofing.

And even more, I haven't included the hours of retouching work that goes into photos people order prints and albums of. Or the cost of a quality album...

I'm tired now, and as an asside I think I've just convinced myself I need to put my prices UP...

Pete

Good points a lot of people think the wedding tog only works for the actual wedding day.

I probably spend 30 - 40 hours on one wedding.

Which includes

meeting the couple a couple of times [and travelling]

going to the venue and reception a couple of times [once when they booked and again a few days before.

time spent on the day


time spent sorting through the pics [usually 10 hours work]

and it goes on and on.




mmmmmmmmm maybe I should put my prics up too:shrug:

 

[Deleted member 9479]

If it's any consolation I recently attended a family wedding as a guest (was asked to be the TOG but said no). The photographer charged £1500 for the shoot, and.... £2k for the finished albums (1 large one - looked like a wallpaper sample book in size, and a mini carry around version).

He did a complete survey of the venue the week before, came to meet the bride and groom in the evening to discuss the shoot, was there all day on the day and all evening, and was a very nice bloke too - you can imagine we had a lot to talk about between shoots!

The albums were stunning - ok very large, but absolutely stunning. The bride and groom are very happy with what they got, and have never queried the price, or questioned me about my thoughts on it. For what its worth, some of his photos were very inspiring.

Quality and service cost - its his job, not a hobbie, and it shows in his finished work. Unless you make it to the dizzy heights of becomeing a 'named' TOG whereby people are just paying to say 'so and so' took our photos, you have to charge accordingly. If you really weight it up correctly...

time (pre and post event too) + investment in kit + investment in skill + software + travelling costs + profit (it is not a bad word!) = COST TO CLIENT

Try and convince me that any decent wedding shoot with a decent end product (albums, DVD etc..) can come to less that £1500-2000.

 

[Deleted member 9479]

cheers m8


people pay it so they can say oh yes we had ours done at venture .. i just don`t get it .

Rog

DON'T TALK TO ME ABOUT VENTURE !!! :thumbsdown: My mother almost got seriously conned by them. I am so pleased I said I'd sit in on the 'sales presentation' after the shoot. I'm gonna stop there 'cos this will end up going off thread :bang:

 

[santana007]

Basing a price simply on hours worked ( 2 hours time to meet a client before the wedding at a minimum, 12-18 hours of shooting time including travelling time, time to visit the venue before hand to check the place out for shooting locations etc, time spent on the phone checking details with other vendors ) I don't see how you can say someone charging £1000 for a wedding is ripping people off.

Oh and I haven't included in that travel expenses, photographic equipment costs ( which runs into many thousands for anyone seriously doing weddings ), Computer equipment ( including software), media ( backups, and drives to hold all the data ), other back office tasks, oh and hosting for a website to keep an online presence and for client proofing.

And even more, I haven't included the hours of retouching work that goes into photos people order prints and albums of. Or the cost of a quality album...

I'm tired now, and as an asside I think I've just convinced myself I need to put my prices UP...

Pete

i don`t think £1000 is riping people of , i have spent around £10`000 on cameras and studio gear .

it`s the quality some people offer for £1000 that is the problem . as you say alot of work goes into it . we always travel to the venue to check it out and meet with the couple to discuss what they want .

spicer hallfield ablums are quality and cost . and as i say the couple we have just done the last wedding for said we don`t charge enough .

as i say it`s the ones out there that get paid for poor quality .

rog

 

[PeteStewardson]

Good points a lot of people think the wedding tog only works for the actual wedding day.

And those same people go out and shoot weddings for peanuts with little regard for how much work goes into ensuring the photos come out. I've actually spoken to a lot of married couples who spent a silly low amount of money ( < £700 ) and just think they're photos are OK, and having seen the photos realise they're of the quality I cull out and would be embarrassed to show.

mmmmmmmmm maybe I should put my prics up too:shrug:

Funny how typing it out like that makes you realise how much you're undercharging. I think tonight will be spent reviewing my prices.

Pete

 

[a1ex2001]

spicer hallfield ablums are quality and cost . and as i say the couple we have just done the last wedding for said we don`t charge enough .

It's always best to leave the customer feeling they got a good deal, gives them double satisfaction and when they tell there friends they will say 'X' did a great job of our wedding photos and was really good value for money making people more likely to ask for you photos than if they said 'X' did a great job but certainly wasn't cheap. It seems everyone wants a cheaper wedding these days so I'd rather have a rep for being good and value for money than just being good.

Fortunately I'm not a pro tog and never want to be so won't have to worry about setting fees!

 

[santana007]

Surely that depends on the album. A 40 page 16x12 album with an acrylic cover would eat up most of £500 quickly...

Hi m8 we use sim2000 . as you say this kind of album ain`t cheap , but is quality , but the photo has to play it`s part other wise it is money wasted .

who do you use

Rog

 

[PeteStewardson]

I'm using Loxley but have been looking into sim2000 as they do a big range of cards etc too. Having said that I got an email from loxley about christmas cards this week so am going to be having a look at those.

 

[santana007]

It's always best to leave the customer feeling they got a good deal, gives them double satisfaction and when they tell there friends they will say 'X' did a great job of our wedding photos and was really good value for money making people more likely to ask for you photos than if they said 'X' did a great job but certainly wasn't cheap. It seems everyone wants a cheaper wedding these days so I'd rather have a rep for being good and value for money than just being good.

Fortunately I'm not a pro tog and never want to be so won't have to worry about setting fees!

this is the point i have been trying to make and somehow i havn`t . the weddings and portraits we have done over the last 3 years have all come from recommendation and people looking at the work we have done .
i don`t think we charge enough , but i also don`t want to charge more just because we can . i want people to say we had a great deal and love what we had done .

i get a massive buzz knowing someone loved what we did , or to know a photo is hanging on their wall .

but people need to pay bills are are in a very different position than i am . i don`t treat it as a hobby but a part time business . for which when i do the odd wedding and portrait i feel i am fairly paid . more weddings/portraits = more money .

my wife works 5 days a week for the same money each month . and it`s good money . i wouldn`t have to get too many more weddings/portraits a month to earn what she earns .

rog

Rog

 

[santana007]

I'm using Loxley but have been looking into sim2000 as they do a big range of cards etc too. Having said that I got an email from loxley about christmas cards this week so am going to be having a look at those.

we use loxley for prints / point 101 for canvas and sim2000 for digital albums .

the one we just had back was damaged . they replaced it with in a week and knocked £65 off . quality Albums and a great service ... well worth getting a sample pack done as part of a portfolio .

i`ll have to have a look at the xmas cards


Rog

 

[PeteStewardson]

Guys I think we're all in agreement, apart from Agger who thinks everyone else is ripping off their clients.

Can we all feel the love...

 

[PeteStewardson]

we use loxley for prints / point 101 for canvas and sim2000 for digital albums .

the one we just had back was damaged . they replaced it with in a week and knocked £65 off . quality Albums and a great service ... well worth getting a sample pack done as part of a portfolio .

i`ll have to have a look at the xmas cards


Rog

It's the one thing I forgot to ask about when I saw them the other week was sample packs. Will have to give them a shout

Pete

 

[WeddingHack]

i don`t think we charge enough , but i also don`t want to charge more just because we can . i want people to say we had a great deal and love what we had done .

Clients thinking that you were good value and loving your work has no relation to your prices ...

Value is the perception that a client feels that they got what they paid for (or better), regardless of what they actually paid.

e.g. it is not good value if someone pays £500 and feels that the product provided is not worth even that.

If the client leaves with the feeling that their money was well spent, then you are providing a good value service. Regardless of the price.

If you feel that you are consistently providing a service above and beyond the price point you are currently at, then you are not providing 'good value' to yourselves and should put your prices up. This does not make you 'rip off', it means you are in business.

Duncan

 

[Agger]

Not at all some have justified their charges however there are many who hav'nt or can't, I use quality kit, I produce a really good package for my customers however I just don't rip them off, as I say I work in a warehouse where wages are poor but I could set myself up as a full time wedding photographer if I wanted, the money is no object as I have "enough" but I would'nt want to settle for charging what others charge, I actually agree with many of the points above and can see why some people get into weddings, for many it's just a lucrative way to obtain easy money

Guys I think we're all in agreement, apart from Agger who thinks everyone else is ripping off their clients.

Can we all feel the love...

 

[santana007]

Clients thinking that you were good value and loving your work has no relation to your prices ...

Value is the perception that a client feels that they got what they paid for (or better), regardless of what they actually paid.

e.g. it is not good value if someone pays £500 and feels that the product provided is not worth even that.

If the client leaves with the feeling that their money was well spent, then you are providing a good value service. Regardless of the price.

If you feel that you are consistently providing a service above and beyond the price point you are currently at, then you are not providing 'good value' to yourselves and should put your prices up. This does not make you 'rip off', it means you are in business.

Duncan

Hi Duncan

good point if someone pays £2000 and are happy then , job done . as i said the couple we have just done the latest wedding for said we didn`t charge enough for the package and service we gave .

that said it looks like we will pick up another wedding from it . so we have done our job .

the good thing about any kind of job is there is a place for most people .
another wedding we did this year the couple mother brought the album . i would have sooner got them to have a spicer hallfield album , but it was what they wanted . the customer is all that matters . if they are happy we have done our job regardless of what we charge .

Rog

 

[artona]

Maybe you have never been self employed Aggar but doing an average of 40 weddings per year would mean working fulltime and after expenses give a wage of approx £14000. You would not get paid holidays or sick leave or paid coffee breaks or lunch breaks.

Sorry if you are not charging for your services you cannot really claim you have customers. Customers demand professional service delivered on time because they are paying for it

 

[santana007]

Not at all some have justified their charges however there are many who hav'nt or can't, I use quality kit, I produce a really good package for my customers however I just don't rip them off, as I say I work in a warehouse where wages are poor but I could set myself up as a full time wedding photographer if I wanted, the money is no object as I have "enough" but I would'nt want to settle for charging what others charge, I actually agree with many of the points above and can see why some people get into weddings, for many it's just a lucrative way to obtain easy money

i also use quality gear . my one regret is not getting into it many years ago when people were telling me to .

for people to pay me good hard earned money for something i love to do makes me smile .

i have just done some portraits for a family . 4 family's and 6 kids in total .
she saw me today and said i have an order for you from all 4 family's . i showed her a metallic print in b&w we have just had back from loxley .

she said bl**dy hell . it was really hard trying to decide which we wanted in color and which in b&w now there is this ! it looks stunning . i walked home with a big smile . knowing we have done our job again . and more of our photo`s will be in different homes in pride of place .
the reason she booked us was word of mouth then looking at what we did . she made a comment our stuff looked like venture style shots but a fraction of what venture charge .

one point i don`t agree a wedding is easy money . :nono:

 

[Agger]

Thats your opinion which of course you entitled to, however if I wish to charge 1p they are still customers, even if I do it for free they are customers in my mind.

All of my work is done by WOM

Maybe you have never been self employed Aggar but doing an average of 40 weddings per year would mean working fulltime and after expenses give a wage of approx £14000. You would not get paid holidays or sick leave or paid coffee breaks or lunch breaks.

Sorry if you are not charging for your services you cannot really claim you have customers. Customers demand professional service delivered on time because they are paying for it

 

[Hacker]

I did one recently and did'nt charge the Bride I work with and her Dad is a long time friend, had to tavel about 180miles each way, spent 11 hours at the venue for the wedding, reception and evening do, went back the next day to drop of a flash drive with the images on. I downloaded all wedding photo's pretty much as I shot them and displayed them on a 24" inch and a lappy. For this I got fed on the day £35 for petrol and a £50 voucher, which was much more than I had asked for, I was well pleased with that.

*snip*

My moral charge what your happy with, but don't rip people off

So you travelled 180 miles each way which I presume would take you 3 hours per leg of the journey which makes for a 17 hour day.

You say you didn't edit the images so shall we say 1 hour for downloading? Another three hour journey the next day to show the clients and I'll assume an hour with them to show them the images followed by a three hour journey home. Just on those two days you have racked up 25 hours.

I'll make another assumption that your car gets 40mpg, so 720 miles divided by 40 means you would require about 18 gallons which is roughly 81 litres, the average price today of Unleaded is 95.6p per litre which means that fuel has cost you roughly £77.43. In total you received £85 (£50 of which is a voucher) so take the £77 pounds of that and it transpires you are 'working' for 32p per hour. Each to their own I suppose but I think you will find that this is slightly below the minimum wage and I don't know many who could run a business on those figures.

Okay, maybe I have been a bit facetious but I thought it would an interesting way to get the point across.

Not at all some have justified their charges however there are many who hav'nt or can't.....

May I ask why they have to justify their prices to you, if the work they produce is what the client wants and the client is happy to pay for that service/product then what is the problem.

....for many it's just a lucrative way to obtain easy money

Easy money? I think I'll just sit back and let others comment on that one.

You certainly have an interesting approach and viewpoint to business and who am I to criticise that, if you are happy that is what matters. However, insinuating that working professionals are rip off merchants is a very sweeping statement.

One final question, would you still be happy charging the above if this was your sole source of income? If so, how would you upgrade equipment, pay for advertising, webspace etc etc.

 

[PeteStewardson]

for many it's just a lucrative way to obtain easy money

Yeah weddings are easy money...

 

[PeteStewardson]

one point i don`t agree a wedding is easy money . :nono:

Easy money? I think I'll just sit back and let others comment on that one.

Oh come on guys... I mean can you not see his point? I mean all we do is turn up to a wedding with a camera, push the shutter button a bit and then hand them a CD full of beautiful images... :bonk:

Pete

 

[Agger]

I agree I worked on that occasion for very little but doing it for a "friend" is the keyword, to answer your question below, of course not but most of the so called wedding photographers I meet are supplementing income and not full time proffessionals, to those who do it full time of course they have to make money to pay bills relace kit etc, however you only have to view the "how much do I charge" posts on this and many other forums to know that many are viewing it as easy money, to those of you who work hard at it, well done I have no problem with you guys, it's the jumpers who try to get on the band wagon that are the problem, they are letting us all down

One final question, would you still be happy charging the above if this was your sole source of income? If so, how would you upgrade equipment, pay for advertising, webspace etc etc.

 

[PeteStewardson]

I agree I worked on that occasion for very little but doing it for a "friend" is the keyword, to answer your question below, of course not but most of the so called wedding photographers I meet are supplementing income and not full time proffessionals, to those who do it full time of course they have to make money to pay bills relace kit etc, however you only have to view the "how much do I charge" posts on this and many other forums to know that many are viewing it as easy money, to those of you who work hard at it, well done I have no problem with you guys, it's the jumpers who try to get on the band wagon that are the problem, they are letting us all down

Which puts me in your category. I have a full time job, and I charge for weddings I do so at the moment then maybe I am supplementing my income. But how am I meant to turn this into a full time job ( which is my intention ) if I don't charge the right amount for my work?

IMHO ( and it's just me ) if you are good enough to be competing against someone doing this full time you should be charging full time prices. It is people that don't charge enough that do the damage. If someone is prepared to shoot a wedding as a hobby, and charge nothing or very little, but is of the same standard as a good pro, then are they not doing the pro a disservice?

Pete

 

[TG.]

I work in a warehouse for a pittance I'm 55 and would'nt / could'nt rip people off, there ar'nt many of us decent people left

Agger i also work in a warehouse and in that type of industry I'm guessing we probably earn the same sort of pittance , however weddings are in no way shape or form an easy way to make money, i did my friends back in february and while it was just a favor and i didn't charge them i found it nerve racking, i daresay the more you do the easier it becomes and the more confident you get, fortunately they where very happy with the results although i wouldn't say i was entirely happy but that's another story.


I'm sure your fully aware as you have done weddings the amount of work that goes into it, not just on the day but more so the preparation beforehand and the work on the PC after the event, your obviously in a position to do it for free even though you earn a pittance in the warehouse, a nice position to be in i guess, and I'm sure we all would like to be in such a position, however as has already been said people do who have to charge do so to make a decent living, and if a person has a achieved a good level of skill in what they do why shouldn't they charge a a price to reflect that skill, as does a plumber, a dentist, an electrician and so on, if i had the level of skill in photography that some of the guys here who do weddings do i know i wouldn't be working in a bloody warehouse for a pittance, maybe you should think of doing it full time.