Wedding/ISO Noise

danny_bhoy

danny_bhoy

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Hi all,

Sorry first and foremost for doing something I never thought I'd do.....ask for advice on TP about wedding photography :) Seen some guys getting ripped to pieces on the past! :)

Anyway, it's a simple one really. A friend has asked me to get some no pressure shots of her wedding. We're both 100% clear that it's not normally my thing but expectations have been fully managed. No money involved, purely as a favour to a friend.

My only worry is about the indoor/church shots. How badly will my 7d cope with the noise at high ISO? Anyone used one for such an event?

(If it helps I'll be using a Tamron 17-50 2.8, 50mm 1.8 and possibly my 70-300 IS for some outdoor candid stuff)

Cheers.
 
I would see if you can go to the location and take some test shots if poss, speak to the vicar first, would you be shooting Aparture Priority? you might not need to go as high ISO wise as you think. have fun.
 
Obviously a full frame will be better, and the 7d will be pretty noisy when you start pushing it about iso 1600. If the couple aren't expecting much then you'll be ok.

Shooting with the 50mm wide open will be the best thing to do as you'll be able to keep the iso to a minimum, although you will probably need to manual focus a bit as the focusing on it can be pretty shoddy in low light - it also makes a hell of a noise.
 
7D has the same sensor as my 60D.
My rule of thumb is that it is possible to create a decent A3 print from ISO 2500.
Looks a bit rubbish on screen, but try printing one and see what happens.

Here's one I produced earlier at ISO 2500 and printed to A3.
20110501-121101-_MG_3236-S.jpg

Most of that set were taken on the long lens at high ISO on the 60D and at least 20 of them were printed to A3 - they looked great. Here's the rest of the set, http://www.wild-landscapes.co.uk/Blog/2011-04-29-Bristol-Folk/16837327_VjCnqW

I think you'll be fine with those lenses; but as already suggested, try and get some practice in similar lighting conditions first :)
 
no one will care about noise if the pictures are of people looking bored, unflattering light, or composed badly
concentrate on photography

honestly only photographers care about noise
 
Have to be honest people beast the sensor in the 7d, 60d etc without much reason too.

I have shot A3 prints at 3200 if the exposure is correct.

So to be honest, with a fast lens iso 3200 should easily be enough.

When doing a dark music festival before I have shot at 6400 before and people have been more than happy at a a4 print too.
 
as above, photographers get too carried away by it, ask someone who doesnt know cameras about noise and they more than likely will look at you like " what the hell are you talking about?"
 
Thanks very much guys. All really helpful and reassuring stuff.

I've got a trip to the location planned for this weekend at the same time of day as the wedding is to be held so I'll have a scout about and see what the light is like.

I'll be shooting 99% of the day in Aperture Priority...is using Auto ISO wise or is it best to set it yourself according to light? Only reason I ask is that, being out of my comfort zone, I'd like to concentrate more on getting the shot than fiddling with settings.
 
I can confidently predict you'll get totally contradictory advice as there is no right answer; it depends on what suits you.
That's where experience and practice come in......

Personally, I prefer aperture priority and auto ISO as it allows me to frame (for example) from a well lit bride to a weeping aunt in the dimly lit aisles without doing anything other than a dab of exposure compensation for the white wedding dress; and I'll often not even bother with that as RAW seems perfectly adequate for boosting the exposure a stop in PP.
However, there are times when full manual makes sense; especially in high contrast lighting that isn't changing too much. If you do try manual, have a go with the custom modes on the dial as on my cameras dialling in Manual leaves auto ISO active and you get problems; but using one of the C positions on the dial I don't forget to do this as it is done for me....
 
I've taken perfectly usable photos at ISO3200 on my 7D, just make sure whatever ISO you use the image is exposed properly.

From my experience with a little PP/NR you can get usable images if they're exposed properly, if they're too dark and you try to brighten in PP, that's when it all goes pear-shaped ;)
 
DuncanDisorderly said:
I can confidently predict you'll get totally contradictory advice as there is no right answer; it depends on what suits you.
That's where experience and practice come in......

Personally, I prefer aperture priority and auto ISO as it allows me to frame (for example) from a well lit bride to a weeping aunt in the dimly lit aisles without doing anything other than a dab of exposure compensation for the white wedding dress; and I'll often not even bother with that as RAW seems perfectly adequate for boosting the exposure a stop in PP.
However, there are times when full manual makes sense; especially in high contrast lighting that isn't changing too much. If you do try manual, have a go with the custom modes on the dial as on my cameras dialling in Manual leaves auto ISO active and you get problems; but using one of the C positions on the dial I don't forget to do this as it is done for me....
Click to expand...

Thanks Duncan. From what you've said re Auto ISO it just re-enforces what I was thinking. Anything that lets me concentrate more on getting the required shots has to be a good thing.

Some really sound advice. Thanks again.
 
Russ77 said:
I've taken perfectly usable photos at ISO3200 on my 7D, just make sure whatever ISO you use the image is exposed properly.

From my experience with a little PP/NR you can get usable images if they're exposed properly, if they're too dark and you try to brighten in PP, that's when it all goes pear-shaped ;)
Click to expand...

Thanks Russ. That seems to be the mantra with the 7d: .....as long as you get the exposure right.

I've just downloaded a trial of Topaz De-Noise plug-in for photoshop as a safety net. I've heard good things.
 
I have imagined it or did I not read somewhere that noise because largely reduced in print? Either way, I agree that you should worry more about the actual photography than bumping your ISO. The 7D is a solid camera and will serve you well for weddings!
 
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noise is in the eye of the ........photographer lol!!

Watch Neil van de neurk (spelling??) re wedding photography on you tube.

Bump the noise as high as you are comfortable with ie 1600 2500...if its to grainy in print convert to black and white and call it art!!!

As mentioned above....worry less about the settings and more about the subject. Catching a laugh, moment, look...even iff slightly grainy or soft is far better than no look , laugh at all!!!

The less i worry about settings and camera capabilities the more creative and free i feel!!!

Take your camera, go to some dark places, take some sample images at different noise levels and print them... then you will see what level of noise you are comfrotable with.


HAVE FUN
 
mrjames said:
no one will care about noise if the pictures are of people looking bored, unflattering light, or composed badly
concentrate on photography

honestly only photographers care about noise
Click to expand...
this^

nothing to add.

get the shots sharp, the slower lens might be a bit useless indoors.
 
Eddzz!! said:
I have imagined it or did I not read somewhere that noise because largely reduced in print? Either way, I agree that you should worry more about the actual photography than bumping your ISO. The 7D is a solid camera and will serve you well for weddings!
Click to expand...

Thanks Eddy. You may well be right about noise being less noticeable in print as some of my landscape stuff looks quite grainy in PP but less so in print.
 
gpc1 said:
noise is in the eye of the ........photographer lol!!

Watch Neil van de neurk (spelling??) re wedding photography on you tube.

Bump the noise as high as you are comfortable with ie 1600 2500...if its to grainy in print convert to black and white and call it art!!!

As mentioned above....worry less about the settings and more about the subject. Catching a laugh, moment, look...even iff slightly grainy or soft is far better than no look , laugh at all!!!

The less i worry about settings and camera capabilities the more creative and free i feel!!!

Take your camera, go to some dark places, take some sample images at different noise levels and print them... then you will see what level of noise you are comfrotable with.


HAVE FUN
Click to expand...

Cheers Greg,

Checked out that guy on YouTube....took me a while to track him down with a name like Neil van Niekerk :lol: Some really helpful stuff.

I'm off to the venue this weekend to have a nosey round and see what's what. I've just actually taken a punt on Topaz De-Noise and it's fantastic. Like witchcraft :) That's there as a safety net now at least.
 
Fast lenses are the way to go.....you might find 70-300mm on a crop sensor a bit too long for a wedding. My 70-200mm doesn't get used very much, even using full frame.

This was taken at ISO3200 on a 7D.....no special noise reduction software being used. I'm lazy with my PP.


Amie & Gary - 5 by Damien Light Photography, on Flickr
 
Not sure what you're worried about? ok I shoot with a 5D mk2 but normally my ISO doesn't go any higher than 400 in the church.. again it depends upon how dark it is...

 
Jonm said:
Not sure what you're worried about? ok I shoot with a 5D mk2 but normally my ISO doesn't go any higher than 400 in the church.. again it depends upon how dark it is...
Click to expand...

When people shot weddings with film, it was ISO 160 and occasionally 400. Do wedding photographers not use flash in churches any more?


Steve.
 
ISO400. Wow, you're either shooting with primes wide open or the churches in your part of Staffordshire are better lit than my part. I'm regularly at 1600 & 3200
 
Steve Smith said:
When people shot weddings with film, it was ISO 160 and occasionally 400. Do wedding photographers not use flash in churches any more?


Steve.
Click to expand...

Not normally no.
When people shot weddings with film did they shoot through the ceremony or just the mock up signing? My wedding photographer used film & we got no ceremony shots
 
That's a good question. I can't even remember what church shots are in my wedding album!

I don't think you would need to take many during the ceremony. It's not as if there is a lot going on.


Steve.
 
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I'll guess it was processional, mock up signing & recessional with the couple stopped in the aisle in which case flash away.

You're wrong about not a lot going on

a. Its the most important part of the day
b. The emotions you can capture through the ceremony are great
 
paul_g said:
Not normally no.
When people shot weddings with film did they shoot through the ceremony or just the mock up signing? My wedding photographer used film & we got no ceremony shots
Click to expand...

We use to shoot the ceremony too, usually only a few shots, often with a 1.4 lens.
 
I would like to see those photo's in colour

As knocking something to black and white hides a lot of noise
 
Steve Smith said:
When people shot weddings with film, it was ISO 160 and occasionally 400. Do wedding photographers not use flash in churches any more?


Steve.
Click to expand...
Flash was rarely allowed, neither was shooting the ceremony generally considered 'normal'
Steve Smith said:
That's a good question. I can't even remember what church shots are in my wedding album!

I don't think you would need to take many during the ceremony. It's not as if there is a lot going on.


Steve.
Click to expand...
As above - it's the marriage, it'e the event of the day.

IMO it's the biggest difference between modern coverage and the old stuff. It was all posed and frankly emotionless. Digital with higher ISO's allows us to capture everything that happens, and that means the emotion and all the important moments.

I had this out with Martin and he had to admit that despite his mocking of the reliance on 'processing', wedding photography now is generally miles better than it was 10 or 20 years ago. And as it transpired, miles better than he was shooting it nowadays too :eek:.

As a general rule, people who try to make favourable comparisons from then to now usually have no idea about either ;). The only 'advantage' of the old days was that being barely competent was enough to get you hired and you'd be guaranteed sales because there weren't hundreds of cameras at every wedding.
 
not read all posts here, but if you're able to get a good exposure at a high ISO, it won't be too much trouble esp when printed imho.
 
My parents have been married over 60 years. They had pictures from during the ceremony. No flash ;)

It wasn't too long ago I was shooting ceremonies on a D2X which I didn't trust over 640 ISO. Far, far too easy now.....
 
I've been told numerous times that a 70-200 f/2.8 IS is perfect on a crop sensor for the ceremony. I'd probably stick to my 24-105 in decent light and then switch to some primes when things get a bit darker.
 
Eddzz!! said:
I've been told numerous times that a 70-200 f/2.8 IS is perfect on a crop sensor for the ceremony.
That would very much depend where the person taking the ceremony tells you to sit.

For me it's a 24-70L a 50 1.4 and for something a little longer a 135 F2. I generally know within a minute or two of being in there which I'll be using most.

I only look for 2 or 3 bankers in the church. Sometimes it takes a good few shots to get them though.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Richard King said:
I would like to see those photo's in colour

As knocking something to black and white hides a lot of noise
Click to expand...


Here you go, links to the full posts with colour and B&W images

http://www.jonmorganphotography.co.uk/blog/wedding/carden-park-wedding-photography/

http://www.jonmorganphotography.co.uk/blog/wedding/upper-house-wedding-photography-michelle-richard/

http://www.jonmorganphotography.co.uk/blog/wedding/andrea-paul-wedding-photos/


Never had any trouble shooting with iso400 using the 24-70mm L on a 5D mk2 & mk1
 
Eddzz!! said:
I've been told numerous times that a 70-200 f/2.8 IS is perfect on a crop sensor for the ceremony. I'd probably stick to my 24-105 in decent light and then switch to some primes when things get a bit darker.
Click to expand...


Full frame yes... crop no... I tend to use the 24-70 L & 70-200 L only...
 
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