Wedding - HELP!!!!

AliB said:
As for making your point Rob, your point seems to be that it is perfectly acceptable to take a job on with absolutely no experience and from a position of complete ignorance on how to use some of the equipment. Well done.
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Ali, you have a very blinkered view of wedding photography. The OP makes no mention of this being a job, there is no mention that they are being paid for it at all and there is no mention that this is something that the OP would like to get in to again after this wedding.

I shot my first wedding for a friend based on them seeing some holiday snaps of Rome that didn't have any people in them and didn't use flash at all. I did the wedding without really having any proper knowledge of using flash in anything other than TTL mode. I struggled by, I did my best, I'm sure I made loads of mistakes and I certainly came no where near the standard of an experienced professional. What's important though is that the bride and groom were delighted with the photos because they met their expectation. What I think you seem to fail to realise is that B&Gs have differing expectations from wedding photos. Some of them have very little money so they don't want to spend any on a professional photographer and with that comes an expectation of non-professional looking photos and they are perfectly happy with that.

Every credit to you for wanting to push yourself to be the very best wedding photographer you can possibly be but expecting everyone who ever shoots a wedding to be at the same level as you or higher is just ludicrous. Accept the realities of what thought process some bride and grooms go through and you may realise that some people are perfectly happy with just a friend doing their best with the limited camera equipment they have.

A quick analogy for you:
Lewis Hamilton can drive a formula 1 car round a track at 200mph. Well done Lewis!!! If my girlfriend asks me for a lift to work would you expect me to not be capable of it because I don't have a car that does 200mph or mechanics that can change my tyres in 7.4 seconds or I don't have the split second reactions that Lewis does? Actually I can get my girlfriend to work perfectly well and she'll be happy when she gets there.
 
I'd just like to add that if the OP feels themself that they don't have the skills to shoot a wedding then they shouldn't be doing it. If you are pressured in to doing it and you're not mentally ready to do it then you'll probably make a complete hash of it. However if you are a confident outgoing person with good people skills and you have a good knowledge of the use of your camera then give it a shot. Just make sure your friend knows the level you are at and let them make the decision if they want to take the risk or not. It's their day so it's their risk.
 
As you are used to shooting wildlife pics, you could always ask them to dress up as wild animals!! That way, you would feel more confident!! lol
 
What I think you seem to fail to realise is that B&Gs have differing expectations from wedding photos. Some of them have very little money so they don't want to spend any on a professional photographer and with that comes an expectation of non-professional looking photos and they are perfectly happy with that.
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Well said indeed. Too many pros on here seem to think that B&Gs only want top quality creative pics that only they can provide. The reality is the market is very wide, some just want a cd with some record of the day (at a modest cost), others want the full monte and are prepared to pay for it.

I have done a limited amount of Equine photos, and have been asked for prints of pics that I know are not quite up to scratch - the thing is the buyer is happy with them so who am I to go against that.
 
sorry - bad night - feeling crarp - but really .....:shake:
 
I'm with Ali too.

When this question crops up I'll make a judgement based on that persons ability, their equipment and their experience. In this case, I don't think it's a good idea that the OP shoots the wedding.

That's not to say that only established pros should be doing weddings, but in the OP's case I'd suggest running quite fast in the opposite direction. No personal criticism of the OP at all, just a bit of friendly advice.
 
Expectations are not always linked to cost i.e. the B&G could be equally upset if the OP stuffs up when shooting for free!

Bride - "Did you get a shot of the first kiss?"
Tog - "I did, but it's a bit blurred as my lens is only an F4 and high end ISO is not great"

Do you want that pressure?

I'm a true believer in 'you have to start somewhere'. If the OP intended to start up as a wedding tog then I feel that this may be a possible start (given correct equipment, prep, raw talent etc). However, OP has not expressed this intent. Therefore, I'd shy away and offer to take some candids, leaving a pro tog to do the hard work.

Back in Sept I played the 'mate doing candids shots' role (as a pro was hired). This was really enjoyable. I had limited equipment and little (in fact no) pressure. Last month I shot my first wedding - DIFFERENT BALL game!!

Some things to think about -

Equipment - yes bodies, flashes, lenses. Covered already. What about batteries and memory cards. Do you have enough?

Posing - Do you know enough poses?

Groups - Can you 'herd people'? Have you shot large groups before?

PP - The more paid work I take, I realise that having a good workflow system in place is essential. You could easily shoot 1000+ images. This means that the wedding doesn't end on the day! You'll be in LR / PS for many an hour. Do you want this?

The more I think about it, just do the candid role. That way you can be artistic, play and enjoy. Flying from the left hand seat (aviation term), being the tog in charge - you will miss the day!

Of course it could be that the B&G just want snaps and nothing special - but heh, knowing exactly what they mean by that..... difficult to assess.

Good luck which ever route you take :)
 
-Rob- said:
A quick analogy for you:
Lewis Hamilton can drive a formula 1 car round a track at 200mph. Well done Lewis!!! If my girlfriend asks me for a lift to work would you expect me to not be capable of it because I don't have a car that does 200mph or mechanics that can change my tyres in 7.4 seconds or I don't have the split second reactions that Lewis does? Actually I can get my girlfriend to work perfectly well and she'll be happy when she gets there.
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Um, that's a very flawed analogy! My mobile phone has a camera, should I use it at weddings then? No, it's a case of 'fit for purpose'.
 
FlyTVR said:
I'm a true believer in 'you have to start somewhere'. If the OP intended to start up as a wedding tog then I feel that this may be a possible start (given correct equipment, prep, raw talent etc). However, OP has not expressed this intent. Therefore, I'd shy away and offer to take some candids, leaving a pro tog to do the hard work.
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:agree:
 
I'm not sure if I'm ready to do a wedding on that timescale:
people are my thing
I have backups of everything (apart from 70-200 unless 85 counts)
I have assisted at one wedding and have another coming up
Its where I want to be so I follow wedding blogs, look at images. deconstruct how, plan ways and solutions

Personally I'd look to take up Ryans offer, let them down gently, be ill, or explain that your results will likely be dodge (and stress the **** out of you)
 
DDP said:
Um, that's a very flawed analogy! My mobile phone has a camera, should I use it at weddings then? No, it's a case of 'fit for purpose'.
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Actually every wedding I have been to recently there have been numerous people there using their mobile phones to take photos and I bet a lot of them will end up on Facebook and the Bride and Groom will love seeing them as a record of their happy day. For some weddings then mobile phone cameras and point and shoots will be the only cameras there, they won’t have a professional or a DSLR in sight. It’s clearly nowhere near the standard of a pro but the fact remains that it gets the job done.

As I said before, it’s all about differing expectations.
 
-Rob- said:
What I think you seem to fail to realise is that B&Gs have differing expectations from wedding photos. Some of them have very little money so they don't want to spend any on a professional photographer and with that comes an expectation of non-professional looking photos and they are perfectly happy with that.

Accept the realities of what thought process some bride and grooms go through and you may realise that some people are perfectly happy with just a friend doing their best with the limited camera equipment they have.
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I've cut out some bits that I felt weren't relevant to me.

Have you considered the risk of final results not meeting expectations (regardless of how high or low these may be). I think AliB has a good grasp of your logic here, however I think what you are not fully tuning in to here, is the risk to the clients that someone who has never shot a wedding before may fail to deliver the results the clients had expected. This is why most people start of as assistants so they can gain the experience without having to deliver anything major to the clients. Whatever your views of the skills required in wedding photography may be, it is tough work and there is an acceptable level of standard in the industry because it is a paid profession, regardless of client expectations, a common standard exists as with any other profession.
 
-Rob- said:
Actually every wedding I have been to recently there have been numerous people there using their mobile phones to take photos and I bet a lot of them will end up on Facebook and the Bride and Groom will love seeing them as a record of their happy day. For some weddings then mobile phone cameras and point and shoots will be the only cameras there, they won’t have a professional or a DSLR in sight. It’s clearly nowhere near the standard of a pro but the fact remains that it gets the job done.

As I said before, it’s all about differing expectations.
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....and nailing what those expectations are!!!

Having potentially viewed crisp wildlife shots from the OP, who knows what the B+G expect!
 
-Rob- said:
Actually every wedding I have been to recently there have been numerous people there using their mobile phones to take photos and I bet a lot of them will end up on Facebook and the Bride and Groom will love seeing them as a record of their happy day. For some weddings then mobile phone cameras and point and shoots will be the only cameras there, they won’t have a professional or a DSLR in sight. It’s clearly nowhere near the standard of a pro but the fact remains that it gets the job done.

As I said before, it’s all about differing expectations.
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but not of them were ASKED to do it, that throws a whole load of expectation on top.

We need details about what the BnG are expecting/wanting, I mean **** pictures might be fine
 
.
55 posts - no response......:thinking:

this is a wind-up ...right..?.:shrug:
 
Yardbent said:
.
55 posts - no response......:thinking:

this is a wind-up ...right..?.:shrug:
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Yep... or like you know, the OP has a job or something? :p

May be a wind up bu I think as it was only posted yesterday evening it's possible they went to bed and then to work this morning too.
 
If Kiki is a troll then that was a bloody good fishing trip.
 
littlemonster said:
Yep... or like you know, the OP has a job or something? :p

May be a wind up bu I think as it was only posted yesterday evening it's possible they went to bed and then to work this morning too.
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You mean some people get up and go to work without checking their mail (TP posts)? Or am I the odd one out ;)
 
The reason I haven't replied is that I have only just had chance to get onto a computer! Just had a meeting with the B&G.

Thank you for all the replies - even if some have been a little negative ;)

In my initial post, one of the things I asked was "Will this be enough or do I need to borrow something else for the day?" which, some people have attempted to answer.

The B&G have booked video for the day and are more bothered about that than the stills. Lots of people will be taking pics but, they would like some reasonable quality pics of key family members, groups, themselves.

I am going to borrow my SO's 1D MKIIIN and 24-70. I also have a 60mm that I can take, which seems to be something I might need. I have a friend who has a 70-200 and a flash, which he will probably let me use, might rope him in to be assistant on the day!

@Hypnotic - I said wildlife photography - not zoo shots!

@Dave (and others) - thank you - very helpful :thumbs:

@Ryan - thanks but, I think I'm a bit far away from you to make it reasonable (Isle of Man, not so good for commuting)
 
Thanks for the positive reply Keren. Too many people in the past have started threads like this and reacted badly to the responses and things have gone down hill quickly. You seemed to have picked the positives from everyone so hopefully it will help you with the wedding which it sounds like you've decided you are going to shoot.

Good luck with it all and make sure you come back after the wedding and let us know how you got on.
 
No worries Keren - good luck with it all. It sounds like the kit you'll have available will be pretty decent. Just make sure that you're REALLY familiar with it all so that you get some decent pictures on the day without constantly "fighting" the gear you're using.

Best of Luck.

Ryan

P.S it took me 10 minutes to work out what SO stood for :eek:
 
Sounds like you want to do and can get the kit to do it. As long as the B&G understand the situation fully, then go for it! I wouldn't!

Kiki said:
The reason I haven't replied is that I have only just had chance to get onto a computer! Just had a meeting with the B&G.

Thank you for all the replies - even if some have been a little negative ;)

In my initial post, one of the things I asked was "Will this be enough or do I need to borrow something else for the day?" which, some people have attempted to answer.

The B&G have booked video for the day and are more bothered about that than the stills. Lots of people will be taking pics but, they would like some reasonable quality pics of key family members, groups, themselves.

I am going to borrow my SO's 1D MKIIIN and 24-70. I also have a 60mm that I can take, which seems to be something I might need. I have a friend who has a 70-200 and a flash, which he will probably let me use, might rope him in to be assistant on the day!

@Hypnotic - I said wildlife photography - not zoo shots!

@Dave (and others) - thank you - very helpful :thumbs:

@Ryan - thanks but, I think I'm a bit far away from you to make it reasonable (Isle of Man, not so good for commuting)
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Good luck kiki I dont think its up to anyone to tell you what you can and can't do, you have obviously met the B&G and they are aware of your abilitys, and different B&G's have different expectations and priorities for their day.

Before you certainly didnt have the equipment and but now you most certainly do....... so no excuse's ;). Since you say you haven't done much work with "humans" how about going away for a morning or afternoon with the couple and take some shots, particularly the specific ones they are looking for. Try them indoors, out doors and in different lighting that way you will know what to expect.

I do see where AliB and the rest are coming from, I have quite a few portraits for family members, more for experience than anything else with I and they being more than happy with the results. I have also been a 3rd (yes that low down) at a wedding and gotten good shots, however I wouldnt even consider doing a wedding at the minute. Thats just me though, I know my abilities and I know that if I was to do a wedding I want to be 150% confident I can do it.
 
ryanyboy said:
I wonder how many IO's Keren has :D

:coat:
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That would be telling :naughty:

I was invited to the full day anyway - now just means I'll be working for the first half ot it.

As far as the B&G are concerned, once the reception starts, my 'job' has finished.

I am planning a couple of visits to the various locations and am attending the rehearsal so hopefullly things will be OK.

Thanks again for the positive comments and suggestions. :clap:
 
Kiki said:
The reason I haven't replied is that I have only just had chance to get onto a computer! Just had a meeting with the B&G.

Thank you for all the replies - even if some have been a little negative ;)

In my initial post, one of the things I asked was "Will this be enough or do I need to borrow something else for the day?" which, some people have attempted to answer.

The B&G have booked video for the day and are more bothered about that than the stills. Lots of people will be taking pics but, they would like some reasonable quality pics of key family members, groups, themselves.

I am going to borrow my SO's 1D MKIIIN and 24-70. I also have a 60mm that I can take, which seems to be something I might need. I have a friend who has a 70-200 and a flash, which he will probably let me use, might rope him in to be assistant on the day!

@Hypnotic - I said wildlife photography - not zoo shots!

@Dave (and others) - thank you - very helpful :thumbs:

@Ryan - thanks but, I think I'm a bit far away from you to make it reasonable (Isle of Man, not so good for commuting)
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sounds good, do practice with the 1d lots, mine behaves very differently to my 5dII

again LOTS of time put into leaning how the flash works and how to make it look good (a nice cheat for just filling and pulling up shadows is ttl -3 (flash) and Av +1/3 camera which I stole from the chap I assist (as weddings are the only real time I use onshoe flash)

an assistant is very very useful for this kind of thing, they can marshall for you, grab the details while you're covering the important stuff ect
 
oh I missed that bit, but it WILL be stressful, very. Even when you know all the kit and the skills its stressful (but can be amazingly fun) I would expect learning on the job to be very stressful

any chance of seconding for someone first?

if you take an assistant watch you aren't getting in each others shots as this looks really really unprofesional
 
Lets be fair here

You have to start somewhere, we all did. We dont know the expectations of the couple. My first wedding was for a couple who were very close to me, and very broke. It was a no-brainer, get me to do it, or have no photographs at all. I worked with them, and they worked with me, and we produced a superb set of images

If somone has the required technical skills, the camera craft, and is fairly good at dealing with people... there is no reason why using first principles that they should not make a decent job of it. Really all the OP will need to learn (if the tech skills are up to scratch) is how to pose people and how to get a decent variety of shots quickly and fast. There are a few other very wedding specific practacle things he will need to know / cover off, apart from that, it is pretty much the same principle as any other social phootgraphy

Yes ideally they should second shoot with someone first (*hint) Yes ideally they should have 2 lots of "all the kit on the prefered list" However, we dont live in an ideal world, and sometimes the comprimise is pretty damm good

I am not saying shooting a wedding is easy, it is bloody hard work, and you need to be ahead of the ball at all times - it just seems at hat at the moment anyone asks for a little bit of help, a deluge of negativity is thrown at them

As Ii said earlier, we all started somewhere, and most of our starts were not perfect or ideal
 
tell them to hire a wedding monkey for the posed shots and you'll take informal snaps of the wedding and reception. I did this for a friends wedding recently (even though I do shoot weddings) it ment I could relax, drink and record their day.

Kiki said:
I usually do wildlife/ scenery photography and have a number of albums on Facebook that friends look at and comment kindly on.
After seeing these pics, a friend has asked me to be photographer at her wedding in September. They are having video of the day but have very specific ideas of what pictures they want (which I suppose will be a help).

I have a Canon 40D, 100-400IS and 17-70. Will this be enough or do I need to borrow something else for the day? Do I need flash - the only problem is that it's not something I'm used to using. Very few of my pics have people in them!

Having seen some of the standard of wedding pics on here, I am hoping to get some useful advice.

Thanks
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i shot my first wedding about a month ago, and it was pretty much the hardest single thing i've ever attempted. I worked my arse off making sure i knew enough about wedding photography so that i'd be reasonably confident, and even with a very hard work groom - it all worked out well. Granted i did make sure i had the right equipment which nearly bankrupted me - but i (and more mportantly the B & G) now have a fantastic set of images, and most of that was down to genuine old school graft.

I have to say though, I worked incredibly hard for a very long time to make sure i didn't mess things up. we're talking studying and reading and going out practisng in nearly all of my spare time in the 3 months leading up to the shoot. By all rights i shouldn't have taken the job on - but i like a challenge. If you're willing to put some serious hours in between now and then and get the right equipment then there is no reason why you can't get some great images.

Oh and to back up what someone else said - don't just go thinking you can 'get a few nice photos for the day' - either you're in or you're out as the wedding photographer - and if you do a half arsed job there's only one person the B&G are going to blame if they don;t get the photos they want.

best of british to you.
 
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