Wedding equipment advise for casual evening photo's

sturs

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Stuart
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This is not another "I am doing my 1st wedding". A good friend of mine is getting married in late Sep this year, they have hired a pro tog for the day inc. the speeches. What he would like is some casual photo's during the evening i.e. on the dance floor and basically everyone having fun getting drunk.

At present I have a 75-300mm and the kit lens. What lens and flash would I need to get some good shots, they are not looking for pro pics but just something to remind them of the night.

Budget is tight so please bare this in mind.
 
I dont know a great deal but you will need a flash and something as fast as possible. the 50mm 1.8 is one option but it would let you change perspective but it is cheap.
 
have to agree with that. you'll need a fast lens, f/1.4 or f/1.8, the nifty fifty being the cheapest option. the sigma 30mm f/1.4 would be another choice but its not as cheap. a flash would be helpful, it depends on how well lit the evening event is.

one thing to remember, being drunk isn't great for your photography. well its true for me anyway. and your less likely to drop your camera too, which appparently i very nearly did. that would have been a very expensive crunch on the floor.
 
Would you consider using a decent compact? A G9 (or G10 if you can't lay your hands on a G9) would be ideal. They are excellent for taking 'family snap' type images if that is what they are looking for.
 
a fast 50 - 1.4? but learn to use manual focus - when the light levels are low you may need to give the camera system a helping hand (disco)
 
If you can scope the venue out to see if you can avoid using flash then do.

I don't know about everyone else here, but speaking with my 'guest' hat on, rather than my photographers hat - I *hate* the constant flare of flash.

I think you'd get much better shots if you could shoot using natural light, but there's every chance the place will be almost pitch black. Not even a D3 is much use then ;)

Cheers,
James
 
For dancing learn to use second curtain synch with a flash.

My settings are usually f5.6 1/30 sec second curtain synch set on the camera (custom function on a canon) and also set on the flash itself. If you try that and shoot into some disco lights it's rather nice :) And you don't need any new expensive glass to shoot it either which might just be good for you :)
 
For dancing learn to use second curtain synch with a flash.

My settings are usually f5.6 1/30 sec second curtain synch set on the camera (custom function on a canon) and also set on the flash itself. If you try that and shoot into some disco lights it's rather nice :) And you don't need any new expensive glass to shoot it either which might just be good for you :)

What are the benefits of this Second curtain synch ?
Thanks
 
To be honest, I would grab a 430EX and an 85 1.8 which makes a great combo for casual shots at a wedding.

I dont have any examples from my 400D when I had it but its such a deadly combo since its quick and allows you to get a good working distance.

Excuse the compression (Facebook)
n506975265_2072988_655.jpg


Or just view the video

Most of these were shot with a flash and 85 1.8.
 
@ Gary

Its the Canon. Combo with a AF assisted flash like a 430EX/580EX(II) the USM kicks ass and just nails shot after shot. For low light, I tend to use centre AF and recompose. I WAS going for the 1.2L but the AF is just not as quick.

Thanks for the comment. :)
 
Is it just me or is the cake not supposed to be white?

The baseboard has also been cut off on the left and half the cake on the right?

????? :shrug:
 
Is it just me or is the cake not supposed to be white?

The baseboard has also been cut off on the left and half the cake on the right?

????? :shrug:

I really dont think it makes much of a diff, heres a diff composition

n506975265_2072981_8936.jpg


n506975265_2072980_8704.jpg


Why does the cake have to be white? Its always nice to muck about and since I shot as a guest, theres no need to get the shots bang on what they should be. I rather be creative than boring.
 
Thanks Mate
No worries. Its odd that you rarely see many of these second hand.

It might be a bit too long on a crop body (equiv of 136mm) so a 50 1.4 MIGHT be a better option. Personally I prefer the length since you can keep a bit of distance for candids. This way also, I was out of the main toggy's way.
 
No worries Teshi, I much prefer the last one. As a wedding tog I suppose I'm just used to having to make it white otherwise the Bride would have chosen a pink one :)

The last one really is much, much better. :thumbs:
 
No worries Teshi, I much prefer the last one. As a wedding tog I suppose I'm just used to having to make it white otherwise the Bride would have chosen a pink one :)

The last one really is much, much better. :thumbs:

Which is why I only focus on wedding receptions rather than the wedding itself. More ambient light to throw around and not having to worry as much for the right colour as it never seems to matters.

Better learn the wedding side as my first toggy job is next year. :lol:
 
If you can, get your hands on "Wedding Photography" by Mark Cleghorn. I've been on a couple of his training courses and his book takes you through the day. From prepararation through each stage of the day and digital workflow too. I think that, other than album design, which is very individual anyway, it is about the most comprehensive "manual" as I've found.
 
If you can, get your hands on "Wedding Photography" by Mark Cleghorn. I've been on a couple of his training courses and his book takes you through the day. From prepararation through each stage of the day and digital workflow too. I think that, other than album design, which is very individual anyway, it is about the most comprehensive "manual" as I've found.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wedding-Photography-The-Complete-Guide-Cleghorn-Mark_W0QQitemZ260344983765QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Books_NonFictionBooks_NonFictionBooks_SM?hash=item260344983765&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

is this what your on about mate
 
If you can, get your hands on "Wedding Photography" by Mark Cleghorn. I've been on a couple of his training courses and his book takes you through the day. From prepararation through each stage of the day and digital workflow too. I think that, other than album design, which is very individual anyway, it is about the most comprehensive "manual" as I've found.

Cheers, ive got a few things lined up already, its more finding the time to fit it all in. Most of my work revolved around nightclub work so its just a difference scene. Most family weddings, im involved in the whole toggy process :lol: and tend to just shoot as a backup.

I just need to start saying yes to assistant positions. Think there is one in my calendar, better check. :lol: Cheers for the link
 
:thumbs: Oh yes.

I think I have about 6 books on this subject now, from Annabel Williams through to American ones and honestly Mark's no nonsense approach to it and breaking down of key skills at each stage is absolutely invaluable.

I must remember to ask the sod for commission! lol

His DVD's are pretty good too and he has a new training venture for the next year. It's £200 for the year and on offer at £150 right now. For that you get at least one training video each week with bonus ones as he manages to get them on the site. It's phototraining4U.co.uk

If you are just starting out I can think of a lot worse in terms of training that you can take at your own pace. (20 mins a day). I've paid a lot more than that for a single day's specialist training.
 
If you can, get your hands on "Wedding Photography" by Mark Cleghorn. I've been on a couple of his training courses and his book takes you through the day. From prepararation through each stage of the day and digital workflow too. I think that, other than album design, which is very individual anyway, it is about the most comprehensive "manual" as I've found.
good tip this is a great book - got mine from the local library
 
This is not another "I am doing my 1st wedding". A good friend of mine is getting married in late Sep this year, they have hired a pro tog for the day inc. the speeches. What he would like is some casual photo's during the evening i.e. on the dance floor and basically everyone having fun getting drunk.

At present I have a 75-300mm and the kit lens. What lens and flash would I need to get some good shots, they are not looking for pro pics but just something to remind them of the night.

Budget is tight so please bare this in mind.
In my experience you'll be needing a short/standard zoom/prime of f/2.8 or faster and a body that can deliver useable images at 1600 ISO. You'll also benefit from a decent flashgun that has a tilt/swivel feature and the knowledge to use it properly. I would expect to be shooting at 1600 ISO, f/2.8 and between 1/40 and 1/100 (probably about 1/60 most commonly) for indoor evening shots. Fast (f/1.2-f/1.4) primes are all well and good, if they deliver sufficient DOF to be useful. I reckon that all in all f/2.8 is a good compromise between lens speed and DOF.

Here are a couple of examples, with EXIF. I'm not citing these as great examples or anything, but simply to show the necessity for high ISO and fast glass...

50D and 17-55 lens at 55mm, f/2.8, 1600 ISO, 1/40, bounced flash (not that there was much to bounce off) with small index card reflector. This has almost certainly been edited for WB but probably nothing else. It was shot at 13:44 on 30th November, so the light can be monumentally bad even during daytime :
20081130_134440_2481_LR.jpg


30D and 17-55 lens at 31mm, f/2.8, 1600 ISO, 1/60, bounced flash, no edits :
20080829_202854_2980_LR.jpg


I've shot in situations, at a wedding, where I was shooting with a 50D at 200mm, f/2.8, 3200 ISO, 1/60 and could not use flash due to the nature of the environment. The example here was taken at 14:21 in the afternoon, with overcast daylight through the windows on camera right and feeble tungsten within the room itself. The room had a low, sculpted, coloured ceiling, making bounced flash a no-hoper, and the picture on the wall reflected back with a vicious hotspot if I used direct flash. The room was so tightly packed that I had no option to pick a different angle to remove/reduce reflections, so all I could do was use the miserable available light. Now that is a tough gig....

20081130_142146_2612_LR.jpg


The common theme for me in these conditions is manual exposure, f/2.8, 1600 ISO and bounced flash to make up the exposure shortfall. If you have a slower lens, or use a lower ISO then you will be more dependent upon your flash to supply the missing light. This approach may destroy the natural ambience of the scene, or cause problems with colour casts if the ceiling/walls are not neutral, or just generally cause problem with mixing light of different temperatures (tungsten = yellow, flash = blue). Of course, you can gel your flash to match the ambient colour teperature, but the more complex you make things the more challenging you make life for yourself.

So, to answer your question, if you want a fair crack at doing the job well, you need to be able to use 1600 ISO comfortably, have glass of f/2.8 or faster, a tilt/swivel flash gun, perhaps some flash gels/modifiers, and the skill to adapt to the environment and use it all together. With a "tight budget" I'm not sure how easily you will accomplish those goals.

That said, if the environment you are in is kind (nice pale/neutral surfaces for bouncing) and/or you are happy to use direct flash and sacrifice the background ambience then you might get away quite well with more modest kit. Plenty of nightclub photography (I don't do it myself) delivers great results at f/4 and 800 ISO. Whether you can get away with that depends on your ambient lighting, how your subject is lit vs the background, and how much movement there is in the scene. Check out this thread - http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=415099&highlight=nightclub - the first photo, for example, is with a 30D at 18mm, 1/3, f/4.5, 800 ISO. Looking at the shadows it seems to me that the flash is off camera, high and to the left of camera, probably hand held at the end of a sync cord. The examples in post #2 all look pretty good to me. Sadly, the examples in posts 13 and 14 illustrate to me that there is more to it than just whacking a flash on the camera and pointing and shooting. Equipment is important for sure. Knowing how to use it is even more important. I'm still learning.
 
You can go flash if you don't have the fast glass:

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Or use the ambient light if you're brave and want to retain atmosphere more. These are with a 50/1.4 and ISO6400, which gives you an idea of how dark it is:

same venue as first two here:

3035988982_1a079383c3_o.jpg


3035989300_b40cb739df_o.jpg


different venue:

3075289274_d9c91105d1_o.jpg


3075290062_7a30dfe3c8_o.jpg


3074455431_c73c4a2e85_o.jpg
 
Or use the ambient light if you're brave and want to retain atmosphere more. These are with a 50/1.4 and ISO6400, which gives you an idea of how dark it is:

6400 ISO from a 400D would be interesting to see :)

It may be helpful to have a clearer understanding of what is meant by "tight budget". Does it include a new body, fast glass and a flash?
 
Thank you all for the great advise. When I say a tight budget I am only really looking at buying a new faster lens and also a flash which I could then use for casual family portraits after as a learning experiance.

I like the idea of the nifty fifty as I beleive this will also help me learn better and get out of being lazy using the zoom :)
I have never used a flash before so I have quite alot to learn, but the good thing is I have the time to learn.
I am really looking forward to trying something different and expanding my learning curve.
 
The Nifty can deliver very good IQ but the AF is pretty ropey - slow, noisey, inaccurate. The worse the light the more hopeless the AF and the more hunting you will get. As I recently read it described - AI Servo on the Nifty is like having a mini earthquake in your hands. That's not far from the truth. Shooting at 20' or 50' a little inaccuracy in the AF may well be masked by ample DOF, but at f/1.8 and under 10' you need that AF to be bang on, every time. e.g. at 10' and f/1.8 your DOF is about +/- 5". At f/1.8 and 5' the DOF is only +/- 1.2" That is not much room for error.

MF with the Nifty is also very difficult, because the focus ring is very small and the gearing from the AF motor interferes with smooth/easy manual focus efforts. Regardless of the lens, MF on the Rebel series is very challenging and even more so on a 400D with its small and relatively dim viewfinder. I would not want to attempt MF with the Nifty at a wedding, where you simply don't have the time to patiently fine tune things.

If you can push the budget you might consider the Canon 28/1.8, 50/1.4 or 85/1.8, all of which have USM focusing. Favourite for budget f/2.8 zooms is the Tamron 17-50. I've never had one but I understand the AF is slow, but accurate, and the IQ is good. The creme de la creme for Canon croppers is the 17-55 f/2.8 IS but that is a lot of money.

You might also consider the Sigma 30/1.4. If you go that route be sure you can try the lens out thoroughly before purchase, or buy from a source with a good return/replace policy as, apparently, the focus calibration on these can be very hit and miss. If you get a good one then you should be golden, but if you get a duffer it might take you a while to get one that delivers the goods reliably. I've never owned a Sigma lens, because I've always been put off by tales of focus woes. However, I do have their 10mm f/2.8 fisheye on order as its reputation is solid and, being a prime, I hope the AF accuracy will be less demanding for the lens.
 
6400 ISO from a 400D would be interesting to see :)

It may be helpful to have a clearer understanding of what is meant by "tight budget". Does it include a new body, fast glass and a flash?

Limited to ISO1600 on a 400D. :( Could underexpose by miles and pull it back. Not sure how bad the noise would kill the picture. Unless Canon did a firmware update for this. :thinking:
 
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