Wedding coming up - Wondering to use my Canon 16-35 f4 instead of renting 24-70 f2.8

mrk123

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I have my Canon 5dmk3 - Canon 70-20 2.8ii and my 50mm f1.4... I really want the 24-70 2.8 as is standard for any wedding but I don't want to fork out £60/80 to rent it for 2 days. And not ready to pay the £1200-£2000 new or whatever it is.
I am wondering, if I should just take my 16-35 f4 (which i use for interior) and use it on tripod only for those wide group shots. It's an Asian wedding, so to my memory of the last one there were staged shots on stage with sofas and family members taking it in turns to sit with bride and groom, make sense to keep these shots identical in their composing. I would not want to use an f4 moving around the room, shot would be dull and boring and not allow me to separate subjects from unwanted backgrounds.
What do think? Good idea?
70-200 and 50 for moving around the venue and the 16-35 for staged group shots which require a wider aperature anyway?
 
Paid wedding or pictures for friends? The answer you get will be very dependant on this, and may not be too gentle.

As an observation, you will get very little subject separation with an f2.8 lens unless you can get your subjects a long way from the background, and should be looking at f1.8, pref f1.4 or wider. There's nothing wrong with the f2.8 zoom, but it's not going to do *that* look.
 
For a friend and paid.
I have shot about 5 weddings and very comfortable, but always rented that 24-70 but rental prices gone too high now.
When I say subject separation I am not talking extreme portrait separation, but just the look we all expect with a 24-70 2.8. I think 1.4 would be extreme and look too artificial.
I am more concerned on the 16-35 f4 and using it on tripod for group shots only, and getting by with my 70-200 2.8 and 50mm (I know the 50mm will be limiting tho, but I am confident shooter who can move and get the shot. Just can't justify £80 on rental.
 
There’s lots of factors to take into account. How high an ISO you’re comfortable with, lighting in the temple/venue, shutter speed to freeze action as they have the walking around the fire ceremony, you may not have much room to move around in the temple and it could be distracting constantly moving around. Tamron and Sigma also made 24-70 f2.8 and you could consider a s/h one.
 
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Yeah the 50mm will be limiting and the 16-35 f4 will not cut it moving around - they will look like family snaps with minimal DOP.
Hmm, maybe need to bite the biscuit with rental on a 24-70 2.8.
 
My feeling is that if you're being paid then you must be professional about it and fit yourself with suitable kit. That's quite different if you're just another guy with a camera at a mates wedding.

Lightroom may help with your camera being so noisy too, although it will extend the time required for processing.
 
As I perceive it, if you are providing a service and have a particular lens that 'works' for you then, as it is business arrangement, then you need to factor in the increased lens rental costs into your CODB.
 
If you're going to be charging for your services, you need to have the necessary equipment to do the job properly.

If it's just a favour for your mate, then offer him the choice: Pictures at less than optimum with your current kit or get him to pay for the rental of the lens that will give closer to the results he's looking for.
 
I've shot a LOT of weddings and I wouldnt fancy doing one without a standard zoom of some sort. Yes you could do it with what you have (and we all shoot differently) but it would be a PITA changing lens all the time. When I shot with primes I used the 50mm mostly.
I use 2 cameras and hardly ever change lens.
 
I have always find you have enough to do and cope with as a wedding photographer, as well as the unexpected. I would use the kit you are familiar with, rather anything else that may turn out to be problematic.
 
We all shoot weddings differently so style does come into it. At asian weddings as you noted there are a lot of staged group shots. If inside using bounced flash you could get away with the 16-35 but it's all the other moments from reportage to walking down the aisle you may miss the 24-70. Go back into light room and look back at your other weddings and note what photos you used the 24-70 f2.8 for and think if you could have got the shot with a f4 16-35. Personally I would rent the lens not just for the shots but as a second lens if your 16-35 fails (it does happen)
 
I have always find you have enough to do and cope with as a wedding photographer, as well as the unexpected. I would use the kit you are familiar with, rather anything else that may turn out to be problematic.
I don't see any learning curve using a 24-70 that he has used before. Renting a R5 with he is used to a 5DMKIII i would agree but not a lens
 
For a friend and paid.
I have shot about 5 weddings and very comfortable, but always rented that 24-70 but rental prices gone too high now.
If you’re getting paid, sorry to sound harsh but your gear is the cost of doing business.
And if you’re not charging enough to justify gear upgrades then you’re doing business badly.
It’s a harsh reality, if you’re undercutting the competition and your financial advantage is based on you cutting corners, then you need to address that with your eyes open.

But you’ll not consider yourself to be ‘undercutting’ as you’re just ‘doing it for a mate’. Which is true, but naive, what would your mate be paying if you didn’t have a camera?

You’re shooting weddings for money, so you need all the gear and backups required to do that in your own style, and you’ve already built a style reliant on the 24-70.

Buy the lens, it’s small money compared to what wedding photography costs.
 
I would rent the 28-70 this time. See if you could have managed without it and then you’ll know for the next wedding you do. And factor the cost into what you charge to do weddings in the future. And look out for a second hand bargain!
 
For a friend and paid.
I have shot about 5 weddings and very comfortable, but always rented that 24-70 but rental prices gone too high now.
When I say subject separation I am not talking extreme portrait separation, but just the look we all expect with a 24-70 2.8. I think 1.4 would be extreme and look too artificial.
I am more concerned on the 16-35 f4 and using it on tripod for group shots only, and getting by with my 70-200 2.8 and 50mm (I know the 50mm will be limiting tho, but I am confident shooter who can move and get the shot. Just can't justify £80 on rental.

Gonna sound harsh here probably but if you can’t justify paying £80 for a rental you probably shouldn’t be doing it.

The average cost of a wedding photographer in the U.K is around £1500 for a reason. The cost of doing business for a wedding photography business is higher than most people realise. I feel bad for your couple who won’t have a clue.

Using a 16-35 f/4 is laughable. Also haven’t seen a wedding photographer use a tripod for group photos since Jesus was a wee lad.
 
Gonna sound harsh here probably but if you can’t justify paying £80 for a rental you probably shouldn’t be doing it.

The average cost of a wedding photographer in the U.K is around £1500 for a reason. The cost of doing business for a wedding photography business is higher than most people realise. I feel bad for your couple who won’t have a clue.

Using a 16-35 f/4 is laughable. Also haven’t seen a wedding photographer use a tripod for group photos since Jesus was a wee lad.
I dont think many use a tripod these days, but we all shoot differently. I have used a tripod at weddings, but only for special effect type shots (long exposure with flash, or multi exposure) but never for the normal groups or prep etc.
 
Also haven’t seen a wedding photographer use a tripod for group photos since Jesus was a wee lad.
As someone who knows nothing of Asian weddings, I’d assumed that this was ‘normal’ for those very staged shots. But I’d also expect a decent level of lighting gear to go with that kind of setup too.
 
Depends on how much you are getting paid, just a guess but with your equipment Im guessing this is more a case of mates rates at a fraction of the cost.

If getting well paid then yes I think one way or another you need to up the equipment standard.
 
As someone who knows nothing of Asian weddings, I’d assumed that this was ‘normal’ for those very staged shots. But I’d also expect a decent level of lighting gear to go with that kind of setup too.

Having been to a wedding in India, both assumptions are correct. Team of about 8 doing stills and videos, lighting kit, the works.
 
Depends on how much you are getting paid, just a guess but with your equipment Im guessing this is more a case of mates rates at a fraction of the cost.

If getting well paid then yes I think one way or another you need to up the equipment standard.
Every ‘mates rates’ thread in history descends to this though.

Once you’ve agreed to do a job for money, you’re expected to do the job well enough to earn that money.

And if this is based on ‘previous work’ you’ll need at least the same gear you used last time.

And a backup.

Friendships quickly go downhill when an error message appears half way through the ceremony and you announce you’re done for the day.
 
Screw the crappy canon zooms. Get yourself tamron 35 1.4 and sigma 85 1.4 art and at least r6 so you have 2 bodies before even thinking about doing paid event work... Seriously
 
Gonna sound harsh here probably but if you can’t justify paying £80 for a rental you probably shouldn’t be doing it.

The average cost of a wedding photographer in the U.K is around £1500 for a reason. The cost of doing business for a wedding photography business is higher than most people realise. I feel bad for your couple who won’t have a clue.

Using a 16-35 f/4 is laughable. Also haven’t seen a wedding photographer use a tripod for group photos since Jesus was a wee lad.
So you assume I am not going to deliver the results? Just because I don't have a 24-70?
Cmon! Even you must know that it's not always about the gear!
 
As someone who knows nothing of Asian weddings, I’d assumed that this was ‘normal’ for those very staged shots. But I’d also expect a decent level of lighting gear to go with that kind of setup too.
2 Goddox pro lights, Goddox trigger, 2 stands, soft boxes, reflectors, knowledge on flash lighting.
 
I dont think many use a tripod these days, but we all shoot differently. I have used a tripod at weddings, but only for special effect type shots (long exposure with flash, or multi exposure) but never for the normal groups or prep etc.
Asian family shots are not like typical group shots.. The bride and groom sit down for nearly an hour, whilst the whole wedding take in turns to have photos with them.
However, I most likely won't be using trippod, I mearly stated I have it, but with my lighting set up, why is a 16-35 laughable? A 50mm would even suffice.. You don't want a load of wacky out of sync family shots that leave the viewers dizzy with the amount of angles and lens lengths do you.
 
So you assume I am not going to deliver the results? Just because I don't have a 24-70?
Cmon! Even you must know that it's not always about the gear!
You said that you had previously used a 24-70 and this couple will expect at least a similar level of work. You can’t do that with worse gear.
However, I most likely won't be using trippod, I mearly stated I have it, but with my lighting set up, why is a 16-35 laughable? A 50mm would even suffice.. You don't want a load of wacky out of sync family shots that leave the viewers dizzy with the amount of angles and lens lengths do you.
:ROFLMAO:
I am more concerned on the 16-35 f4 and using it on tripod for group shots only,
You literally said here you were going to use a tripod.
 
So you assume I am not going to deliver the results? Just because I don't have a 24-70?
Cmon! Even you must know that it's not always about the gear!
I think the point is - and I made it too, you're not going to deliver what you delivered before using a completely different lens. It's not 'about the gear' but 101 photography is that perspective is a function of distance, and for the same scene, perspective changes with FL because that changes the required subject distance. The 50mm might do the job if you historically used the 24-70 around that FL, but the WA probably won't.
 
I think the point is - and I made it too, you're not going to deliver what you delivered before using a completely different lens. It's not 'about the gear' but 101 photography is that perspective is a function of distance, and for the same scene, perspective changes with FL because that changes the required subject distance. The 50mm might do the job if you historically used the 24-70 around that FL, but the WA probably won't.
As it happened a lot of my last shots where taken on the 70-200, and mixed it in with the 24-70.
I really don't need to tell a photography forum that we do not need to be fixed to the trending lenses to get the job done. That was not to you, but generally wider to people who seem to think we need to stick to certain lenses to get the job done. Photography cannot be holed in like this. If someone wanted to shoot on a 600mm then good for them.
I appreciate the advice from people but I am beginning to think that most people lack creativity.. Let's face it, a 24-70 is optional, a creative choice, it's not an essential is it.
 
As it happened a lot of my last shots where taken on the 70-200, and mixed it in with the 24-70.
I really don't need to tell a photography forum that we do not need to be fixed to the trending lenses to get the job done. That was not to you, but generally wider to people who seem to think we need to stick to certain lenses to get the job done. Photography cannot be holed in like this. If someone wanted to shoot on a 600mm then good for them.
I appreciate the advice from people but I am beginning to think that most people lack creativity.. Let's face it, a 24-70 is optional, a creative choice, it's not an essential is it.
Most wedding photographers start with a 24-70 and 70-200 combo, not because it’s ‘trending’ but because they cover the needs. Trending would be a strange word to describe something that’s been standard practice for >40 years.

By the time I hung up my boots, I shot 90% of a wedding on a 35 art and 135L pairing. Less versatile than the zooms, but I just came to love that combo.

Now you feel free to do what you want, but I think we might be at the point where you’re making excuses for cutting costs, rather than making the right choice for the right reason.
 
I have my Canon 5dmk3 - Canon 70-20 2.8ii and my 50mm f1.4... I really want the 24-70 2.8 as is standard for any wedding but I don't want to fork out £60/80 to rent it for 2 days. And not ready to pay the £1200-£2000 new or whatever it is.
I am wondering, if I should just take my 16-35 f4 (which i use for interior) and use it on tripod only for those wide group shots. It's an Asian wedding, so to my memory of the last one there were staged shots on stage with sofas and family members taking it in turns to sit with bride and groom, make sense to keep these shots identical in their composing. I would not want to use an f4 moving around the room, shot would be dull and boring and not allow me to separate subjects from unwanted backgrounds.
What do think? Good idea?
70-200 and 50 for moving around the venue and the 16-35 for staged group shots which require a wider aperature anyway?

As it happened a lot of my last shots where taken on the 70-200, and mixed it in with the 24-70.
I really don't need to tell a photography forum that we do not need to be fixed to the trending lenses to get the job done. That was not to you, but generally wider to people who seem to think we need to stick to certain lenses to get the job done. Photography cannot be holed in like this. If someone wanted to shoot on a 600mm then good for them.
I appreciate the advice from people but I am beginning to think that most people lack creativity.. Let's face it, a 24-70 is optional, a creative choice, it's not an essential is it.
I find what you say in your OP (I have made bold) with the above in your last post..... somewhat contradictory.

Reading the thread can I ask why you actually posed the question as looks like you had made up your mind and were possibly seeking affirmation :thinking:
 
Most wedding photographers start with a 24-70 and 70-200 combo, not because it’s ‘trending’ but because they cover the needs. Trending would be a strange word to describe something that’s been standard practice for >40 years.

By the time I hung up my boots, I shot 90% of a wedding on a 35 art and 135L pairing. Less versatile than the zooms, but I just came to love that combo.

Now you feel free to do what you want, but I think we might be at the point where you’re making excuses for cutting costs, rather than making the right choice for the right reason.

I think its also important to note that when you made your choice of going with the two primes; you had years and a lot of experience behind that choice. You'd arrived at a working method and style that suited you; plus you'd been in a LOT of different and varied situations to know how to react and respond to those different demands. Ergo how to work within the limits of the equipment that you chose.

The 24-200mm range that the combo of 2.8 lenses covers gives most ranges a person needs for a wedding with an aperture that's suitable both for low light work (AF and such systems); and creative choice. It's also two lenses so its really fast to swap between if you've one camera body and means less gear to lug around. Esp if you're working on your own.
There are a lot of benefits to the combo which is why its so popular.

If you want to work outside of that combo then you have to really focus on what benefits working outside is bringing. For the OP right now I feel like the only benefit they've focused on is the cost factor. Instead of the creative choice; style; presentation; ease of working etc... They've not really put on the table what they can do with the 16-35mm that really works with their style and method to produce great photos. Plus they've not outlined how they can work around the 35-70mm range gap that they've got between the two lenses that they have.

Now of course all people have to experiment to find out; but ideally you'd experiment in a casual setting (eg a wedding rehearsal) or with a second camera body with the other lens on. Or through study of photos after. Eg you might find you were using the 24-70mm at a single or very close to single focal range for 90% of the shots. Telling you that you could perhaps go for a 50mm prime and still do most of what you need for the day and perhaps get an f1.4 for more creative freedom.

It's less ideal to do a paid shoot on a one-time event that's also a one-time-life-time event for the couple. Weddings have that extra layer of not being repeatable and being very emotionally important for those involved that adds a lot of stress to performance. Many events might be one-time but if you muck it up its not the end of the world; people move on (if anything the worst is that you just don't get paid); weddings are more critical to mess up so often its best to go with your A-Game and with a system and setpu that is flexible that you know works.

Reading the thread can I ask why you actually posed the question as looks like you had made up your mind and were possibly seeking affirmation :thinking:
That's actually very normal. A lot of people will ask a question which is broadly framing their intention and own answer. It's less that they don't value other inputs, and more that they've come to a choice (or close to a choice) and want to see how people react and if they do or don't agree. If they do agree great they made a choice most agree with; if they disagree then it's when they question and the thread becomes a back and forth.
ideally of each side going deeper into the reasoning behind their stance. Pointing out strengths and weaknesses of either approach.

Less ideally people get their egos out and start fighting instead of focusing on facts.
 
For the OP a thought - you've done 5 weddings at least say £60 a time. That's £300. If you are going into weddings and aiming to do more it might be prudent to consider seeing what kind of monthly payment options you can find for the lens. Rather than spending out for each wedding with a cost that's fully lost; instead start putting money into paying for the high ticket item that's your bread-and-butter workhorse of a lens for those situations.

There's a few zero or low interest options from many of the larger photography groups and it could let you afford the lens whilst earning; without it being a massive single ticket purchase. It also means that you're investing into it in a longer term manner since that lens would last you years of good solid use. Whilst rentals are great for testing; for long term they are far less ideal as you're spending money all the time but not keeping the benefit.
 
Thanks for the replies guys.
I feel I have wasted enough time now.
I know this is a busy forum and everyone has lives to live.
I just think as Overread has pointed out I / WE are just going round in circlres, more on my own doing.
I don't want to waste anyone elses time now.
Thanks.
 
Thanks for the replies guys.
I feel I have wasted enough time now.
I know this is a busy forum and everyone has lives to live.
I just think as Overread has pointed out I / WE are just going round in circlres, more on my own doing.
I don't want to waste anyone elses time now.
Thanks.

Good call really. You know what we think now, the rest is up to you.
 
Asian family shots are not like typical group shots.. The bride and groom sit down for nearly an hour, whilst the whole wedding take in turns to have photos with them.
However, I most likely won't be using trippod, I mearly stated I have it, but with my lighting set up, why is a 16-35 laughable? A 50mm would even suffice.. You don't want a load of wacky out of sync family shots that leave the viewers dizzy with the amount of angles and lens lengths do you.
I never said the 16-35 is laughable. I use one myself, mostly for big groups if space is tight. I also said we all shoot differently.
I've never shot an Asian wedding, I have done quite a few Indian weddings though.
If you want to shoot on a tripod and it works for your style of photography, thats great. The weddings I shoot the pace and movement is too fast for a tripod.
I get the feeling I have offended you, that was not my intention. I was trying to be helpfull.
 
I never said the 16-35 is laughable. I use one myself, mostly for big groups if space is tight. I also said we all shoot differently.
I've never shot an Asian wedding, I have done quite a few Indian weddings though.
If you want to shoot on a tripod and it works for your style of photography, thats great. The weddings I shoot the pace and movement is too fast for a tripod.
I get the feeling I have offended you, that was not my intention. I was trying to be helpfull.
No not offended at all.
I value everyones input. Learned a thing.
Thanks.
 
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