Wedding assistant required

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ok, I'm about to throw my (burnt) jacket potato up. When I said calm it down I really didn't mean this :lol:
 
asphotographymk said:
hmmm maybe i need to rethink who i use as an assistant.
.
Click to expand...

Well its fair to say that carla is a lot more pleasing to the eye than tony - shes actually a model but wanted to get some experience on the other side of the camera.

On a serious note i'd say that we are coming at this from different angles - I'm from a background (countryside work) where volunteering is normal - I was volunteer cordinator at the parks trust in milton keynes for five years , and had over 200 hundred volunteers (none of whom felt taken advantage of) - if you want to get into countryside work you more or less have to volunteer first as its the only way to get the experience you need.

and thats the paralell i see with wedding toggery - how else can someone get the experience and pictures they need except by assisting someone who's already established ? - and how do they get the right to use the pics they take other than by trading their time for them ?

(assuming they arent as 'special' as tony ;) )
 
big soft moose said:
Well its fair to say that carla is a lot more pleasing to the eye than tony - shes actually a model but wanted to get some experience on the other side of the camera.

On a serious note i'd say that we are coming at this from different angles - I'm from a background (countryside work) where volunteering is normal - I was volunteer cordinator at the parks trust in milton keynes for five years , and had over 200 hundred volunteers (none of whom felt taken advantage of) - if you want to get into countryside work you more or less have to volunteer first as its the only way to get the experience you need.

and thats the paralell i see with wedding toggery - how else can someone get the experience and pictures they need except by assisting someone who's already established ? - and how do they get the right to use the pics they take other than by trading their time for them ?

(assuming they arent as 'special' as tony ;) )
Click to expand...

Im very special ;-) and not needs before you say lol
 
big soft moose said:
Well its fair to say that carla is a lot more pleasing to the eye than tony - shes actually a model but wanted to get some experience on the other side of the camera.

On a serious note i'd say that we are coming at this from different angles - I'm from a background (countryside work) where volunteering is normal - I was volunteer cordinator at the parks trust in milton keynes for five years , and had over 200 hundred volunteers (none of whom felt taken advantage of) - if you want to get into countryside work you more or less have to volunteer first as its the only way to get the experience you need.

and thats the paralell i see with wedding toggery - how else can someone get the experience and pictures they need except by assisting someone who's already established ? - and how do they get the right to use the pics they take other than by trading their time for them ?

(assuming they arent as 'special' as tony ;) )
Click to expand...

Thats a little different as parks trust is a charity organization. I dont think the OPs wedding business is. No matter how much it may feel like it as a photographer these days.

Portfolio building is a hard old task for weddings but that is a little different conversation. If the assistant was bag carrying i dont see how they would get much chance to shoot really.
 
duttytd said:
He don't like to use protective gear either
Click to expand...

And the way I hear it, you were suprised by how much he likes to be on top ;)
 
Look when i said on the other thread that having an assistant/second shooter could really cover your arse this is not what i meant :lol:
 
boy am i glad no one on here knows i give up 4 days of my annual holiday to work 8 days, free, gratis, just because i enjoy doing it. i must be :cuckoo: :D:D:D
 
brianp55 said:
boy am i glad no one on here knows i give up 4 days of my annual holiday to work 8 days, free, gratis, just because i enjoy doing it. i must be :cuckoo: :D:D:D
Click to expand...

You see there is a bigger picture here. We all enjoy photography, that is why we do it and many of us are very lucky to have a job that we enjoy so much. But as i and others have said 100 times before the damage this kind of free work can do to the industry is massive. Yes we enjoy photography but it is also what feeds my family and for every photographer that provides there work for free that is one less job for a hard working photographer who has a family to feed. So your 8 days of free work that you enjoyed so much could have easily payed the mortgage or fed the kids of someone grafting to run a photography business. Yes someone will always do it for free and the more "clients" that know this the less food on my family's table and that of other hard working photographers. This is why i think it should go down the whole chain, photographers, assistants, models should all charge and all get payed.
 
big soft moose said:
Look when i said on the other thread that having an assistant/second shooter could really cover your arse this is not what i meant :lol:
Click to expand...

Hahahaha. The funny thing is your the one person who knows what we do yet you are still dragging the tone down event more :naughty:
 
asphotographymk said:
You see there is a bigger picture here. We all enjoy photography, that is why we do it and many of us are very lucky to have a job that we enjoy so much. But as i and others have said 100 times before the damage this kind of free work can do to the industry is massive. Yes we enjoy photography but it is also what feeds my family and for every photographer that provides there work for free that is one less job for a hard working photographer who has a family to feed. So your 8 days of free work that you enjoyed so much could have easily payed the mortgage or fed the kids of someone grafting to run a photography business. Yes someone will always do it for free and the more "clients" that know this the less food on my family's table and that of other hard working photographers. This is why i think it should go down the whole chain, photographers, assistants, models should all charge and all get payed.
Click to expand...

Its a point of view (and something we hear a lot in the countryside field) - however the flip side is that most of the work done by volunteers is work that just wouldnt get done at all if the volunteers weren't there because theres no money to pay for it to be done.

that maybe the case in some togs cases as well - supose you've quoted for a job on the basis of single tog, then while you two are thrashing arround .. erm enjoying each others company :naughty: tony inadvertently damages your hand , and you cant carry your gear one handed

What are you going to do go back to the client and say "actually my price needs to go up by £150 because i need an assistant " , not hardly - so you'd have to either pay an assistant out of your net (thus taking food off your families table) or get someone to help you for free
 
big soft moose said:
Its a point of view (and something we hear a lot in the countryside field) - however the flip side is that most of the work done by volunteers is work that just wouldnt get done at all if the volunteers weren't there because theres no money to pay for it to be done.

that maybe the case in some togs cases as well - supose you've quoted for a job on the basis of single tog, then while you two are thrashing arround .. erm enjoying each others company :naughty: tony inadvertently damages your hand , and you cant carry your gear one handed

What are you going to do go back to the client and say "actually my price needs to go up by £150 because i need an assistant " , not hardly - so you'd have to either pay an assistant out of your net (thus taking food off your families table) or get someone to help you for free
Click to expand...

No my Self Employed Income Protection Insurance and personal injury cover would pay the expenses or i would take it on the chin. Its a risk you take being self employed. "Touch wood" it has never happened but it very well could do.

The comment there was more aimed at doing 8 days of photography wor for free just for the love of it.. Thats all great but it dont pay the bills.
 
Last edited:
asphotographymk said:
No my Self Employed Income Protection Insurance and personal injury cover would pay the expenses or i would take it on the chin. Its a risk you take being self employed. "Touch wood" it has never happened but it very well could do.

The comment there was more aimed at doing 8 days of photography wor for free just for the love of it.. Thats all great but it dont pay the bills.
Click to expand...

I am not sure he/she said the 8 days were doing photography.
 
I can see your point about the freebies,
but surly this applies to most trades where people will DIY it.
It doesn't destroy the pluming trade, landscape trade etc.
At the end of the day some people will pay to have work done
some people wont.

And in reality, its the same with assistants.
I am a pest controller / wildlife management consultant.
Part of my work is flying birds of prey as a deterrent,
to feral pigeons gulls etc,. from various areas.
I get offers of free help all the time in exchange for
training with Bops.
I've trained a few people, and lets be honest its
probably more specialised than photography.
Has it harmed my business ?
Nope!
 
Quaker said:
I am not sure he/she said the 8 days were doing photography.
Click to expand...

brianp55 said:
boy am i glad no one on here knows i give up 4 days of my annual holiday to work 8 days, free, gratis, just because i enjoy doing it. i must be :cuckoo: :D:D:D
Click to expand...

Thats what it looked like to me. Unless there is some other work that they enjoy doing but i can only assume on a photography forum that is what they are talking about.
 
Cobra said:
I can see your point about the freebies,
but surly this applies to most trades where people will DIY it.
It doesn't destroy the pluming trade, landscape trade etc.
At the end of the day some people will pay to have work done
some people wont.

And in reality, its the same with assistants.
I am a pest controller / wildlife management consultant.
Part of my work is flying birds of prey as a deterrent,
to feral pigeons gulls etc,. from various areas.
I get offers of free help all the time in exchange for
training with Bops.
I've trained a few people, and lets be honest its
probably more specialised than photography.
Has it harmed my business ?
Nope!
Click to expand...

If professional plumbers (or someone passing as one) went around giving there services for free it would have a massive impact on the industry. That is very different to DIY. Just like most people have there own cameras that is different than a photographer working for for free. If you dont want to pay then you do it yourself. If you want someone to do it ( and normally at a higher standard than you would do it yourself) then thats why you pay for it.

Have you given them training tho? That sounds to me like you are activing giving them training which at a live wedding is simply not possible.
 
Last edited:
But this isn't about people doing weddings for free, it's about someone who will be pregnant who is asking if anyone wants to assist
 
kelack said:
But this isn't about people doing weddings for free, it's about someone who will be pregnant who is asking if anyone wants to assist
Click to expand...

So they are asking for someone to work for free. So an assistant is less worthy of payment than a photographer? I know there are some professional assistants on TP who would disagree with you there. Ok so an assistant or a nag carrier is less work and therefor less pay than a photographer but why are they not worthy of pay.

Not meaning to sound harsh but pregnant or not business is business and the assistant is just as worthy as payment as the photographer who is getting payed for there roll.

And as i said above that reply was to the person who said they did 8 days work for free just becasue they enjoy it.
 
But what I was saying is that it's not about someone doing a wedding on their own for free or asking someone to do their wedding for free. So the analogy about a professional plumber doing work for free didn't quite work
 
Do assistants declare their earnings to HMRC? Do professionals actually show them on their books or just pay them cash.
Just wondering if it's actually worth getting paid for it...

Kev.
 
asphotographymk said:
Thats what it looked like to me. Unless there is some other work that they enjoy doing but i can only assume on a photography forum that is what they are talking about.
Click to expand...

I think you'll find he's talking about employee volunteering from his day job - the usual deal is the employee gives up 4 days A/L and the employer matches it so they can do 8 days volunterring for a worthy cause - probably nothing to do with photography
 
kelack said:
But what I was saying is that it's not about someone doing a wedding on their own for free or asking someone to do their wedding for free. So the analogy about a professional plumber doing work for free didn't quite work
Click to expand...

and also pople who do want to be plumbers, gas fitters etc usually start off working free as part of their college courses, then after doing a 12 week placement they often then wind up doing further experience on an apprentice scheme paying a lot less than minimum wage
 
asphotographymk said:
Have you given them training tho? That sounds to me like you are activing giving them training which at a live wedding is simply not possible.
Click to expand...

Indeed I have. (as below) and that was on the job training.

Well actually I will admit, that I have only done one wedding and that
was as a "candid" shooter. So really have no concept of a live wedding.
Having said that, thats about to change. I am doing the first one in a few months this year,
for my neice, that can't afford "much" in the way of anything.
Am I wrong?
Its either me or nothing.


I've trained a few people, and lets be honest its
probably more specialised than photography.
Has it harmed my business ?
Nope!
Click to expand...
 
Cobra said:
Having said that, thats about to change. I am doing the first one in a few months this year,
for my neice, that can't afford "much" in the way of anything.
Am I wrong?
Its either me or nothing.[/COLOR]
Click to expand...

You're just touting for a free assistant now! ;)


Kev.
 
Tony'd be up for it - he'd love to get hot and sweaty with a big pink snake :lol:
 
That's me out then :lol:
 
kelack said:
But what I was saying is that it's not about someone doing a wedding on their own for free or asking someone to do their wedding for free. So the analogy about a professional plumber doing work for free didn't quite work
Click to expand...

The comment that was in reply to was about dping photography work for free. 8 days of it infact.

But on the flip side the post is about assisting for free which is an equally important aspect of the photography industry. Maybe you could use the idea of a plumbers apprentice, Yes they will be payed much less but they still get payed.
 
Ah I see, I'm getting very confused with it all now!
 
big soft moose said:
I think you'll find he's talking about employee volunteering from his day job - the usual deal is the employee gives up 4 days A/L and the employer matches it so they can do 8 days volunterring for a worthy cause - probably nothing to do with photography
Click to expand...

In that case this is charity work. Very different as the OP is making money and this is not a charity. I have a single chosen charity i donate my fee to for many events.

Cobra said:
Indeed I have. (as below) and that was on the job training.

Well actually I will admit, that I have only done one wedding and that
was as a "candid" shooter. So really have no concept of a live wedding.
Having said that, thats about to change. I am doing the first one in a few months this year,
for my neice, that can't afford "much" in the way of anything.
Am I wrong?
Its either me or nothing.
Click to expand...
So they did get payment in the form of training. While you may get chance for a few tips at a wedding you cant stop and start giving training on the job there simply is not the time and it is not right to use your clients as a training tool unless it has been agreed before hand with them.

As for are you wrong. Thats a whole new discusion. Would i do it free for a close family member.. yes i would. Thats a choice you take and i would maybe call it a wedding present. Infact i shot my dads wedding a few years back and didnt charge him But as for the its me or nothing well often my answer is if you cant afford it you dont get it when it comes to "normal clients" I guess everyone has a different limit here.

big soft moose said:
and also pople who do want to be plumbers, gas fitters etc usually start off working free as part of their college courses, then after doing a 12 week placement they often then wind up doing further experience on an apprentice scheme paying a lot less than minimum wage
Click to expand...

I had a close friend who just completed his plumbing course. While at college they did not get any work experience out in the field they did all there practical work in the college. After the course he has been taken on as a apprentice which is a payed roll and earning at least min wage. I do think as hands on training is being given less than min wage would be fine again but its still payed
 
Last edited:
asphotographymk said:
But on the flip side the post is about assisting for free which is an equally important aspect of the photography industry. Maybe you could use the idea of a plumbers apprentice, Yes they will be payed much less but they still get payed.
Click to expand...

yeah but as I said above the first part of the training is a 12 week unpaid placement as part of the course leading to the proffesional qualification (Gassafe (corgi as was) for gas fitters - I can't remember what the plumbing equivalent is)

its only after that that they become eligible for the mighty £2.56 p/h training allowance as an apprentice
 
:lol:thats got the thread back on track,I should point out i am not a pro tog.( far from it ) i am a centre lathe turner by trade,I should have pointed out that the free work involves my other hobby fishing,as an instructor helping to teach juniors to fish. this i see as me putting something back into a sport i have enjoyed for many years. the 8 days are 4 days annual leave and 2 weekends. MY time to do with as i like, free or otherwise.well done to quaker i say, hope you have a good day. and all the best to the op.:thumbs:
 
brianp55 said:
:lol:thats got the thread back on track,I should point out i am not a pro tog.( far from it ) i am a centre lathe turner by trade,I should have pointed out that the free work involves my other hobby fishing,as an instructor helping to teach juniors to fish. this i see as me putting something back into a sport i have enjoyed for many years. the 8 days are 4 days annual leave and 2 weekends. MY time to do with as i like, free or otherwise.well done to quaker i say, hope you have a good day. and all the best to the op.:thumbs:
Click to expand...

I think everyone can see this is a very different situation then surely. This is not something that would have otherwise been taken on by a charging professional. Or maybe i am wrong.. i dont know much about fishing tuition or the business of it.
 
asphotographymk said:
So they did get payment in the form of training. While you may get chance for a few tips at a wedding you cant stop and start giving training on the job there simply is not the time and it is not right to use your clients as a training tool unless it has been agreed before hand with them.
Click to expand...
Fair point I can't argue with that :thumbs:

asphotographymk said:
Would i do it free for a close family member.. yes i would. Thats a choice you take and i would maybe call it a wedding present.
Click to expand...
Thats basically what I said, actually :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top