Wedding apprentice?

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RSMarco

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Hi all, posted this in the TP section and thought this was a better place to ask.

Now I'm not sure if this will be welcomed and if this is the right section to post but I'm seriously thinking of getting into wedding photography.

I'm not looking at at a full time role, just something that as a starter I could do throughout the year.

My question is, do pro or serious wedding photographers ever take someone like me to learn off them?

Now my second question is, would anyone be willing to let me shadow them and learn, being able to take images? The last thing I want is to get in someones way. I would be there to help, learn and take pictures and you can view the images and have access if required.

I'm being totally open here and want to understand ways of getting into this sector of photography.

I'm in the Northwest near Crewe and Nantwich.

Much appreciated

Mark
 
I get approaches like this every month or so, my stock answer is WITFM ???

Unless the apprentice could actively bring good regular Wedding/Portrait bookings with them that I'd not get without them, there is no point/benefit for me - and so its a no

Sorry

DD
 
The problem you are going to have is competition.

You state you want to get in to weddings as a business. You are local enough to me that you would be classed as a competitor.

Why should I train you for free and then you come and steal my business later on?

See what I am getting at?

Yes, pro's do take on people, even for just carrying stuff around, however, you will find it extremely difficult to find a 2nd position in your local area. You are going to need to approach people further out and make more of an effort. Letters + links to portfolios etc.

You would also be wise to search the forums as this has been covered many times with some good info :)
 
Thanks for your feedback but I wasn't intending to upset anyone!

I may never ever go full time on this, I just wanted the experience.

Mark
 
I am not sure why you think you have upset either of us, both Dave's and my response are useful to you if you read them correctly.

They will be the typical responses you will get from most weddings togs.

You will find it easier to get experience with a pro outside if your area as they won't view you as competition.

Once you are established then you will be able to build relationships with other local pro's in case you need them. For instance, this Sat I am shooting a wedding at the hill valley golf club on the edge of Shrewsbury. It's a close friends wedding but the wife will have 2.5 weeks left until her due date and we've joked that she might pop on the day.

Meaning I will have to stay as late as possible at the venue then rush to newcastle hospital OR leave straight away and try and get someone to cover me. The couple of pro's I do know are already booked so i'll need to stay as late as possible if it happens.
 
First off-I am not a pro and have no plans in being one. I am very interested in the pro side and have read and listened to lots of people on this topic and the problem your are facing is that another full time pro is less of a worry to a pro than you are. People who do are not full time often do not have the proper insurance, have lower quality gear and as they are usually shooting for extra cash for a new lens or beer money they charge a crazy low rate that no pro could afford to charge as they would be broke from paying studio fees and marketing costs and back-up gear and officially licensed copies of photoshop etc.
That's why you will find great difficulty in getting someone to take you up on the offer. I know GCSE tutors who charge £10 an hour, if you offer the same rate for your education on the topic you MIGHT find a taker, otherwise you're asking for something for nothing and to then result in people struggling to pay their rent cos nobody wants to pay a full time pro the price a pro NEEDS to charge when you'll so the same job for half the price to fund a holiday. As I said I'm a total amateur with a good job so am not involved in any way-just trying to explain the situation to you
 
cjevans said:
People who do are not full time often do not have the proper insurance, have lower quality gear and as they are usually shooting for extra cash for a new lens or beer money they charge a crazy low rate that no pro could afford to charge as they would be broke from paying studio fees and marketing costs and back-up gear and officially licensed copies of photoshop etc.
Click to expand...

Without wishing to appear rude - that's a crock of... :shake:

What you're assuming is that full-timers have insurance, full spec Pro gear and charge lots/a good 'going rate' - and that's simply not true

For instance - close to me there's a full-timers of 30+ years charging Weddings from £55; and a couple of full-timers who work together doing Weddings from £450 for 2 togs and an album with all day shooting too

A full-timer means income solely from photography, so short-cuts such as insurance & using budget cameras/lenses are commonplace - as are cash deals to stretch each penny earned by 'savings' on tax

All you're espousing is the same old 'truths' without actually knowing anything about the Pro world - as you say - if you were a Pro you'd know your local competition and would find out that the 'truth' of WWs (Weekend Warriors) being shoddy, short-cutting undercutters is largely a myth

Not having a 'go' at you btw - I'm simply fed up of that story of WWs being somehow less Pro

I strongly suspect there are just as many rogue full-timers as there are rogue WWs, and many WWs are often more Pro and better photographers too - partly as if the other job is paying for all normal life costs they can afford to do the job properly as - as you say - having so few overheads means they are often much more profitable than the full-timer

DD
 
^This
I'll add 'award winning' and members of 'professional organisations' largely mean absolutely nothing.

Jeff Ascough recently tweeted that the 'best of British wedding photographers' site wouldn't list him because he wouldn't pay them £250 for the privilege.

Despite the fact that he's generally lauded as one of the worlds top 10?

Back to the OP, as others have said, look to learn from someone further from home, though I don't know what you need to learn and what the best way forward is.
 
Cheers guys!

I really didn't want to come across as expecting anything for free and the information stated is very useful. Nice venue by the way (hill valley).

Mark
 
This is a tough one. I would usually have said no to an assistant but for the last three weddings I have shot, I have had one with me. OK, she is one of my Year 13 students who needed to get some work experience before going off to university to study photography so she is not quite 'competition'. However, it was incredibly useful having her around and she was able o get some shots I would have otherwise missed because I had to be with the groom.

I have another wedding this weekend and am working with another assistant; she does want to go full time and pro, and yes she will inevitably be competition. However, I knew how frustrating it was for me to get an assistants position and she was very clear that she needs to learn about managing people and group shots, so I figured it wouldnt hurt to have her as a second shooter. My clients are happy, she is happy and the teacher karma in me is fulfilled.

I wish you all the best in your hunt for a position; it ain't easy. I had to enlist a few of my theatre friends to stage a wedding for me to practice on!

Spooks
 
DiddyDave said:
Without wishing to appear rude - that's a crock of... :shake:

What you're assuming is that full-timers have insurance, full spec Pro gear and charge lots/a good 'going rate' - and that's simply not true

For instance - close to me there's a full-timers of 30+ years charging Weddings from £55; and a couple of full-timers who work together doing Weddings from £450 for 2 togs and an album with all day shooting too

A full-timer means income solely from photography, so short-cuts such as insurance & using budget cameras/lenses are commonplace - as are cash deals to stretch each penny earned by 'savings' on tax

All you're espousing is the same old 'truths' without actually knowing anything about the Pro world - as you say - if you were a Pro you'd know your local competition and would find out that the 'truth' of WWs (Weekend Warriors) being shoddy, short-cutting undercutters is largely a myth

Not having a 'go' at you btw - I'm simply fed up of that story of WWs being somehow less Pro

I strongly suspect there are just as many rogue full-timers as there are rogue WWs, and many WWs are often more Pro and better photographers too - partly as if the other job is paying for all normal life costs they can afford to do the job properly as - as you say - having so few overheads means they are often much more profitable than the full-timer

DD
Click to expand...

No offence taken- I openly said I was not a pro so am happy to be corrected. I was not trying to mean that a WW would not have the proper kit or the ability to do a quality job, I've seen some of the work of such people on here and they are amazing. The point was directed at informing the OP why many would give a negative reaction-as the OP I am assuming (again happy to be corrected) does not currently have all the things stated such as back-ups etc and so would get a bad reaction from people. I am also assuming (maybe too many assumptions on my part) that the OP is looking for a quality pro-be that full time or WW and not one who is doing a bad job, running a poor business and shooting for next to nothing. Sorry for not making my points clearer, again Im only going on the reading I've done etc, I dont claim any expertise, was just trying to help the OP understand the reasons for some of the responses they may get by making such a request
 
Spooky said:
This is a tough one. I would usually have said no to an assistant but for the last three weddings I have shot, I have had one with me. OK, she is one of my Year 13 students who needed to get some work experience before going off to university to study photography so she is not quite 'competition'. However, it was incredibly useful having her around and she was able o get some shots I would have otherwise missed because I had to be with the groom.

I have another wedding this weekend and am working with another assistant; she does want to go full time and pro, and yes she will inevitably be competition. However, I knew how frustrating it was for me to get an assistants position and she was very clear that she needs to learn about managing people and group shots, so I figured it wouldnt hurt to have her as a second shooter. My clients are happy, she is happy and the teacher karma in me is fulfilled.

I wish you all the best in your hunt for a position; it ain't easy. I had to enlist a few of my theatre friends to stage a wedding for me to practice on!

Spooks
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback.

Mark
 
i haven't read through the whole thread, but clearly the best way to sell your services and skills to an established wedding photographer is through your work. This is what I don't get about people offering their services. Demonstrate your abilities through your work, not words... I would never take on assistant who cannot produce a decent exposure that is relatively sharp. Composition and the ability to cope under pressure can come with time.
 
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Years ago studio,would take on people,and maybe give them, to start with the smaller stuff.

Maybe have a look to see if their any big studio in your area,who would willing to take you on :)
 
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