We Need To Get Real

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Voyager said:
Perhaps measuring things 'technically' is 'rubbish'? :D
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Certainly there can be an over emphasis on the technical aspects of a photo - but wouldn't you rather see a photo that is technically and artistically excellent, as opposed to just one or the other?
 
Go on Voyager, let's see some of your technically incorrect works of art then. :)
 
Kaouthia said:
Go on Voyager, let's see some of your technically incorrect works of art then. :)
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Apparently he doesn't feel the need to justify his existence or opinions by showing actual proof of his abilities...:lol:
 
I didn't say it was right - but I did make the point that most of these types of images probably wouldn't have a chance in hell of getting published, let alone becoming iconic images... which means it's harder today to make your mark as a photographer than it was. Not taking anything away from those photographers and their work.
 
Voyager said:
I thought I'd explained it (more than once) already.
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your arguments have about as much substance as thin air, my man. I mean you aren't even comparing like to like in your arguments.

If someone tries to shoot action in low light with a PnS, yes the photos will be a blurry mess because the lens won't be fast enough, nor will the ISO value be able to cope enough to allow an acceptable shutter speed. Since when is that situation a limitation of the photographer? time doesn't just stand still for people using inferior equipment, and if your arguments had any ounce of truth, every togger out there would be shooting with an IXUS.
 
Well, let's see ANYTHING you've shot that you're proud of then.
 
trencheel303 said:
If someone tries to shoot action in low light with a PnS, yes the photos will be a blurry mess because the lens won't be fast enough, nor will the ISO value be able to cope enough to allow an acceptable shutter speed.
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Yes. So what?
trencheel303 said:
Since when is that situation a limitation of the photographer? time doesn't just stand still for people using inferior equipment,
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You have to use the equipment you have got within it's limitations.
trencheel303 said:
and if your arguments had any ounce of truth, every togger out there would be shooting with an IXUS.
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Can you explain how you managed to get to that conclusion from my comments?
 
andyroo1986 said:
So your argument is that expensive kit is useless because there might be one brain-dead idiot who can't operate a simple point and click? Genius...
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Voyager said:
No.
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Well, that's what you've written. No amount of artistic license is going to get you a decent shot if the kit can't cope. One blurry 'atmospheric' shot, is all very well and good, but a whole memory card full isn't going to impress anyone.

Voyager said:
Do you have a lot of difficulty with your reading?

It's fine spending money, collecting kit and enjoying it. It gives a lot of people a lot of pleasure.

But it isn't the kit that makes you a better photographer - it's you.
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My reading is fine. Your ability to express yourself properly is what's lacking. A camera and a tog are a team - a better tog will produce better pictures, as will better kit. It's a symbiotic relationship. You make it sound like a pro tog can pick up a pinhole camera and blow the world's press away with it. 'Fraid not.
 
Voyager said:
You have to use the equipment you have got within it's limitations.
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And replace it when you exceed those limitations, or not? Because, apparently no gear has any limitations, and all this "Pro" gear is just a big con right? :)
 
Christ almighty, I was hoping for something more, but when the guy just proves my own point in his answers I begin to lose interest :lol:
 
I'm not entirely sure what this thread is about to be honest... the title implies that the OP would like a communist society where everybody shoots with the same kit, all things being equal. Why do 'we' need to get real? I'm real enough, the money I earn is real, and so is the kit I buy with it. Saying a better tog will utilise cheaper equipment more effectively is a non-argument - that applies with anything. That doesn't stop the more expensive equipment being better.
 
Bit like watching Top Gear really... same ethos. Look at/dream about the best there is, drive a Focus. All about aspirations (for me at least) = some can drive the Veyron, some can only dream. Then on a track day you get to drive one and can only do 20 minute laps... anyone remember Richard Hammond in the F1 car? They had to call him in to warm up the tyres again!
 
Kaouthia said:
And replace it when you exceed those limitations, or not?
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Yes, obviously.
Kaouthia said:
Because, apparently no gear has any limitations,
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Where do you imagine I have written that ' no gear has any limitations'?

I'm pretty sure that I have said you have to 'work within the limitations of your equipment' more than once on this thread....
Kaouthia said:
and all this "Pro" gear is just a big con right? :)
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I don't think I've suggested that either. Perhaps you can remind us where I have.
 
I'm so glad I shoot with an obsolete camera now so I don't have to worry about upgradeitis.
 
grum said:
... wouldn't you rather see a photo that is technically and artistically excellent, as opposed to just one or the other?
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I want to see an image that captures the moment, expresses an idea or moves me.

If it can do that anything else is irrelevant.
 
andyroo1986 said:
I'm not entirely sure what this thread is about to be honest... the title implies that the OP would like a communist society where everybody shoots with the same kit, all things being equal. Why do 'we' need to get real? I'm real enough, the money I earn is real, and so is the kit I buy with it. Saying a better tog will utilise cheaper equipment more effectively is a non-argument - that applies with anything. That doesn't stop the more expensive equipment being better.
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As the OP what I was saying was that when replying to other Tog's requests for advice about kit was dont always suggest the most expensive solution maybe provide a range of suggestions based on differing financial situations.Where you got the Communist state bit from I dont know because I said that is finances allowed I would be be happily shopping in the 1D,D3,A900 market and anybody who can shop at that level is fine by me
 
Voyager said:
I don't think a cameraphone shot of a framed Cibachrome is going to be of much benefit to this thread.
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There comes a point where people sometimes have to back up their opinions with results and for a lot of us you're presently at that point.

None of us are going to take anything you say seriously unless you can start backing-up your statements with results by your own hand.
Good or bad.
You have quite a lot to say on various technical themes - frequently at odds with people who have a great deal of experience in their field, but it's becoming apparent to me and others that you have no personal experience with that equipment to back these statements up.

It's Put Up or Shut Up time, I'm afraid...
 
CaptainPenguin said:
As the OP what I was saying was that when replying to other Tog's requests for advice about kit was dont always suggest the most expensive solution maybe provide a range of suggestions based on differing financial situations.Where you got the Communist state bit from I dont know because I said that is finances allowed I would be be happily shopping in the 1D,D3,A900 market and anybody who can shop at that level is fine by me
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But on the whole I think people do that...so where's the problem?
 
Voyager said:
I don't think a cameraphone shot of a framed Cibachrome is going to be of much benefit to this thread.
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probably not - but working on the theory the Cibachrome process was superceeded in 2004 do we use your logic and assume you've produced nothing you're proud of since then? :)
 
Arkady said:
But on the whole I think people do that...so where's the problem?
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Rob maybe I just read the wrong posts but I was of the opinion that a substantial number of replies in the "What Kit" area veered towards reccommendations of Pro and Semi Pro kit

Anyhow guys this thread has gone on for a good 20 pages longer than I ever expected to and as the OP can I suggest that we call it a day and get back to taking photographs
 
boyfalldown said:
probably not - but working on the theory the Cibachrome process was superceeded in 2004 do we use your logic and assume you've produced nothing you're proud of since then? :)
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Ilfochrome, since the process was bought from Ciba-Gigy by Ilford, if you want to be pedantic and sidetrack the thread in to more of a personal attack than it has already.
 
Voyager said:
Ilfochrome, since the process was bought from Ciba-Gigy by Ilford, if you want to be pedantic and sidetrack the thread in to more of a personal attack than it has already.
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lol - didn't you get banned for doing that? All people are actually doing now is disagreeing with you.

And I think most people respect/listen to the opinions of people far more who back them up with their own pictures, especially if they are good. Don't see what's wrong with that.
 
CaptainPenguin said:
Rob maybe I just read the wrong posts but I was of the opinion that a substantial number of replies in the "What Kit" area veered towards reccommendations of Pro and Semi Pro kit
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That may be, but many hobbyists use "pro and semi pro kit" and it also depends on how the question's asked.

If somebody says "What's the best portrait lens I can get?" they're gonna be told everything from 50mm f/1.4 & 85mm f/1.4 to 24-70 f/2.8 and 70-200 f/2.8, but if they asked "What's the best portrait lens I can get within my ~£100 budget?", they'll be recommended the 50mm f/1.8 or similarly priced lenses.
 
CaptainPenguin said:
Rob maybe I just read the wrong posts but I was of the opinion that a substantial number of replies in the "What Kit" area veered towards reccommendations of Pro and Semi Pro kit

Anyhow guys this thread has gone on for a good 20 pages longer than I ever expected to and as the OP can I suggest that we call it a day and get back to taking photographs
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Hear hear, glad to see you've decided the same as the rest of us about calling time on this thread.

I make an effort to offer appropriate advice, but as I said this morning, when someone asks "whats the best lens for..." then I'll tell them. I'll usually then go on to say "but that's possibly out of your price range...you can get adequate results with..." but it comes down to asking questions with context (ie. where are you using it, how much do you have in the kitty)

Hopefully I'll be able to leave that as the final comment if you want it closed!
 
Voyager said:
Ilfochrome, since the process was bought from Ciba-Gigy by Ilford, if you want to be pedantic and sidetrack the thread in to more of a personal attack than it has already.
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I've no wish to turn it into a personal attack,but I didn't see my last comment as one, sorry if you did.

I would be interested to see a photo or two though, I think a number of people would, it's a photography forum after all
 
EdBray said:
It's a bit like willies! It's not what you've got. but how you use it, although having extra length and width may make the job easier!
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I dunno, if it is a foot wide, you may sturggle :lol::lol::lol:

If you are a pro, kit certainly does matter, as doing a job requires the best kit. You wouldn't build a house and use bluetack to hold the bricks together, just like you wouldn't really contenplate taking a low-end camera to shot the final of the world cup

. But if you are doing it for giggles, then they joy of getting out there and taking a photo that pleases yourself, not a bunch of people on a forum, is far more important that what L-Glass someone has said you should own.
 
CaptainPenguin said:
Rob maybe I just read the wrong posts but I was of the opinion that a substantial number of replies in the "What Kit" area veered towards reccommendations of Pro and Semi Pro kit...
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Agreed, but I think the point some of us have been trying to make that unless the OP qualifies the question by stating a budget or other limitations, then the expensive Pro kit IS the best tool for the job...that's why we buy it.
 
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