We Need To Get Real

Status
Not open for further replies.
CaptainPenguin

CaptainPenguin

Suspended / Banned
Messages
5,161
Name
Nigel Cliff
Edit My Images
Yes
I am beginning to wonder,with respect,what planet some of us are on occasionally on TP,today I have seen comments like "4 frames per second is no good for sports photography","You could pick up a 300 f2.8 for a very reasonable £1500", and "I would never think of doing a wedding with a 400D even if its only for a frriend"

Well guys my guess is that the majority of TP ers are fairly normal folk without thousands of pounds of disposable income to slash out the very best of kit although we would happily ransack Warehouse Express of the lottery came up.

Those like me who photograph sport at the Amateur or very Semi Pro level manage quite well with 4 FPS or even less but yes we would love a D3,1DS etc etc if we ever had the chance.

The number of times we are told we must get fast aperture L glass or its Nikon equivalent is all very well but the reason all manufacturers make more humble optics and that they sell well is that the majority cannot shop at the top end of the market and from the shots I see here and at Flickr and Fotopic etc they take superb images with their standard comsumer level kit.

So to those who are fortunate enough to have top end kit (And yes we do envy you) just think when giving advice that the majority of us have to live life at a slightly more humble level
 
Stop bleating - sell the wife and kids to Romanian Gypsies and buy a 1DS-IV - your photos are rubbish without it, you know...
 
You are spot on there Nigel and I'll go a tad further than that too.

Anyone who says you need the latest and fastest gear to achieve is talking out of their backside. The skill that comes from practice is a far greater asset on most jobs than FPS or megapixies.

Fast AF is good though I do agree on that but then again there is little faster than something like a canon 1DII and that's not too costly these days.
 
dazzajl said:
You are spot on there Nigel and I'll go a tad further than that too.

Anyone who says you need the latest and fastest gear to achieve is talking out of their backside. The skill that comes from practice is a far greater asset on most jobs than FPS or megapixies.

Fast AF is good though I do agree on that but then again there is little faster than something like a canon 1DII and that's not too costly these days.
Click to expand...

For general photography that's true enough, but for some applications, you do need the latest and fastest kit, otherwise your competition will leave you behind...
 
I think about it like this.... if the greatest photographs we're only possible with the most expensive kit then we should all give up now... but if the greatest photographs are conceptualised, captured or created by human minds and human eyes and recorded with a camera then there is hope for all of us! There are groups that use only polaroid specifically to strip bare the composition/moment/idea from the technology...can't find a link for them at the moment but they're out there!
 
CaptainPenguin said:
So to those who are fortunate enough to have top end kit (And yes we do envy you) just think when giving advice that the majority of us have to live life at a slightly more humble level
Click to expand...

You dont have to do anything.. you choose to..
 
Arkady said:
For general photography that's true enough, but for some applications, you do need the latest and fastest kit, otherwise your competition will leave you behind...
Click to expand...

and that's it... personal photography for fun, there is no competition really, no justification for a new thing other than pleasure...
 
Daryl said:
I'l bid for her? Is she a looker? I'll get me coat!
Click to expand...

Fancy going twos up??! :naughty:

Seriously, if you think everyone who owns fancy gear is loaded and looks down on everyone from the top of a huge pile of cash through an 800mm f1.4 lens while they laugh at poor people who only have turd like entry level DSLRs, then you are very mistaken! I think there is as much (no more no less) snobbishness on here as there is in every other hobby.....

I think there are a huge number of people on here that go without pretty much every other luxury they'd like to have in their lives to fund their gear buying habits.

I also think there is an element of when they do get them, they like to show off a bit, because they are proud of what they have, and have probably worked/saved extremely hard for it, and IMHO they have every right to do so.....

I just route around in skips for my gear and get lucky once in a while!!
 
dazzajl said:
Anyone who says you need the latest and fastest gear to achieve is talking out of their backside. The skill that comes from practice is a far greater asset on most jobs than FPS or megapixies..
Click to expand...

Great advice if your shooting a plant pot on somebodies window ledge
 
Slimbert said:
...I think there are a huge number of people on here that go without pretty much every other luxury they'd like to have in their lives to fund their gear buying habits...
Click to expand...

:(

So true:
Food, petrol (for recreational 'vrooming'), alcohol etc etc etc
 
CaptainPenguin said:
So I chose to eat,pay my mortgage and other bills when I should say stuff it and buy a Hassleblad????


Oh and then starve and get my home reposessed
Click to expand...

Absolutely - it shows committment to prospective employers...:thumbs:
 
CaptainPenguin said:
So I chose to eat,pay my mortgage and other bills when I should say stuff it and buy a Hassleblad????


Oh and then starve and get my home reposessed
Click to expand...


so your saying anyone with top end gear doesnt pay there morgage and are starving.... you really need to have a bit of a think before pressing the pretty reply buttons :)
 
KIPAX said:
Great advice if your shooting a plant pot on somebodies window ledge
Click to expand...

I think you do yourself a great dis-service with that comment. I thought you of all people here would place a higher value on the talent and experience of the photographer over the gain of a MkIII to a MkIV.

I'm pretty sure it's not just me that doesn't adopt a spray and prey approach to sports shooting. :shrug:
 
I did a wedding in about 2002 with a Fuji S602 Pro Zoom bridge camera. Print size was 8x6 and the B&G loved the images and album.

It's a bit like willies! It's not what you've got. but how you use it, although having extra length and width may make the job easier!
 
Arkady said:
Absolutely - it shows committment to prospective employers...:thumbs:
Click to expand...

Yup, telling a client that you are homeless because you've spent all your dough on faster memory cards will definitely get you the job, and it might get you a bowl of soup a decent warm nights sleep in their spare room too!!
 
Slimbert said:
Yup, telling a client that you are homeless because you've spent all your dough on faster memory cards will definitely get you the job, and it might get you a bowl of soup a decent warm nights sleep in their spare room too!!
Click to expand...

See? There's no downside at all...:thumbs:

They might even let you have a go on their teenage nypho twin-daughters as well...
 
dazzajl said:
I think you do yourself a great dis-service with that comment. I thought you of all people here would place a higher value on the talent and experience of the photographer over the gain of a MkIII to a MkIV.
Click to expand...

Nope... i firmly believe that you do need the equipment... I see a lot of people posting in sports section.. whats wrong with the pictures they ask? well they ahve good composition.. have cropped well so can see the picture.. grabbed the action.. good postioning.. good background.... everything they could do is done right...nothing wrong wiht them as a photogrpaher... but the reason the pic doesnt quite make it is because the equipment isnt up to it..

For example a 100-400 at the long end is f5.6 and the reason it doesnt pop is others are at 400 shooting f2.8 ... everythings right about the picture but it doesnt have it because its mixed in with the bqackground at f5.6

Ice hockey.. basketball... great positiong.. great action.. but lens or ISO not up to the job... better photographers than me taking poor shots because they progressed but there equipment didnt..
 
KIPAX said:
Nope... i firmly believe that you do need the equipment... I see a lot of people posting in sports section.. whats wrong with the pictures they ask? well they ahve good composition.. have cropped well so can see the picture.. grabbed the action.. good postioning.. good background.... everything they could do is done right...nothing wrong wiht them as a photogrpaher... but the reason the pic doesnt quite make it is because the equipment isnt up to it..

For example a 100-400 at the long end is f5.6 and the reason it doesnt pop is others are at 400 shooting f2.8 ... everythings right about the picture but it doesnt have it because its mixed in with the bqackground at f5.6

Ice hockey.. basketball... great positiong.. great action.. but lens or ISO not up to the job... better photographers than me taking poor shots because they progressed but there equipment didnt..
Click to expand...

I agree with Tony

Sports is one of the areas where you really do need the high end kit, of course you need to know how to use it too :lol:
 
KIPAX said:
Nope... i firmly believe that you do need the equipment... I see a lot of people posting in sports section.. whats wrong with the pictures they ask? well they ahve good composition.. have cropped well so can see the picture.. grabbed the action.. good postioning.. good background.... everything they could do is done right...nothing wrong wiht them as a photogrpaher... but the reason the pic doesnt quite make it is because the equipment isnt up to it..

For example a 100-400 at the long end is f5.6 and the reason it doesnt pop is others are at 400 shooting f2.8 ... everythings right about the picture but it doesnt have it because its mixed in with the bqackground at f5.6

Ice hockey.. basketball... great positiong.. great action.. but lens or ISO not up to the job... better photographers than me taking poor shots because they progressed but there equipment didnt..
Click to expand...


Ahhh, but that's all down to a fast lens and I totally agree that you can't replicate 2 point 8. It was the bodies and the frames per second that I was commenting on really. Should have been more clear.
 
I think part of the problem Darren, is that peoples expectations and standards of what is acceptable change, 4FPS is perfectly acceptable for shooting sports, but because bodies are now available that can shoot 10FPS suddenly 4FPS is rubbish.
 
Rovers_Andy said:
Sports is one of the areas where you really do need the high end kit, of course you need to know how to use it too :lol:
Click to expand...

and the reply will be how did they manage yrs ago? :)

Well i managed great with my canon 10d and sigma 70-200 for yrs... but i either didnt bother at night matches or i took what i could get which nowhere near compare to what i get now..

I did sports wiht the olympus c2100uz as in my avatar... learnt the art of pre emptive photogrpahy :) I got the pics.. but A) nothing like now and B) I couldnt use it for anything but daylight games..
 
Anyway isnt it all relative? OP has a 400d and there could be plenty reading this thread wishing they had one :)
 
KIPAX said:
Anyway isnt it all relative? OP has a 400d and there could be plenty reading this thread wishing they had one :)
Click to expand...

400d is perfectly capable for shooting sports :) in fact it was my first DSLR
 
KIPAX said:
so your saying anyone with top end gear doesnt pay there morgage and are starving.... you really need to have a bit of a think before pressing the pretty reply buttons :)
Click to expand...

No I was replying to Kipax's post suggesting that I chose to have more modest kit and I was pointing out that I personally have other priorities where my money has to go.I know many people with high end kit have been able to scrimp and save to get it I was just saying that there are some who are either unable to save or varying reasons or who have to spend money on other things.
 
Its an interesting point! I don't do much sports stuff but when I do my PP work I dump so many now compared to when I started [with a 400D!]. A lot of the shots I delete now I would have clung on to as 'brilliant' back then.
How much of that improvement is kit? I would say 50/50, a lot of gig stuff I do you just would not get the shot at all without really good and fast glass. On the other side of the coin I was at an outdoor gig and there were quite a few with entry level kit and i am sure that they produced the goods. At least whilst the sun was out...
I am sure that I could now produce good shots with a 400d and 50mm 1.8 but they would not produce the quantity or quality in many respects. I did an oudoor gig over 2 days at the weekend just with a 70-200L IS and the 5DII and it produced stunning results. So I will stick with my present kit!!

Dunc
 
Its one of the subjects I ahve strong views on.. I apologise if I come over a bit strong.. I always feel I am in the company of friends and dont need to pussy foot about :)
 
But Sports togging is easy, like motorsport, you know where the action is coming from, can prefocus and then pray and spray................:coat:


Argumentative post on purpose, toys don`t need ejecting...........:D
 
Nigel, Basicly the better gear you have the less limitations you have. You just need to know the limitation of your gear and work with it.
 
fracster said:
But Sports togging is easy, like motorsport, you know where the action is coming from, can prefocus and then pray and spray................:coat:


Argumentative post on purpose, toys don`t need ejecting...........:D
Click to expand...

:D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top