We have done it again

Dangermouse

Dangermouse

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Two lads have done the unspeakable acts on some others, stabbing with sharpened sticks to start with and then putting lighted fags onto the bare skin........yes bare skin as they were made to strip naked and then full housebricks were thrown onto them as they lay terrified

Then the pair commited sex acts which I dont know about but they have admitted to doing.

And these scum get 5 yrs supervised

LOCK THE *******S UP FOR 15 YEARS at least


sorry for swearing but swines just dont do it for me and the true word wouldnt ge .......any way they have got away with another Bulger due to our idiots in charge of the courts
 
to be honest mate - if my kids where the victims - i'd want them out in less than a year, then i could sort them out myself.
 
Apparently they watched the same Chucky film as the Bulger killers, how chilling ! as well as porn films and god knows what else, i listened to the Jeremy Vine show on Radio 2 today and an expert was talking how he sees children on a daily basis brought to court but without their parents who couldn't care less to see what happens to them. W e need American style boot camps but first we need to lose this human rights nonsense.
 
stokecity_m said:
to be honest mate - if my kids where the victims - i'd want them out in less than a year, then i could sort them out myself.
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so would I if it were my kids but it isnt and the parents want proper justice and not to hear,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they are going to a home for five years with full sky tv and all games to play and if they have a slight sniffle they get to spend a day or 5 in bed
 
my contribution to this thread would mostly involve swearing, so I'll leave it to the imagination.
 
todays news carries the story of the mother who lied about her childs illness (for money, sympathy and news coverage) the poor child was subjected to operations and ended up seriously ill.


3 years......

sorry but thats inexcusable, she should be locked away for much longer and sterilised (is that the right word for female?)
 
It happened only a couple of miles from where I work, some of the people I work with know the family of the boys who were attacked. Some of the details are shocking.
 
until the housebricks thats a fairly middling caving social

then it gets weird as only the best caving socials end in sex acts

then I realise wtf you're on about at which point i come back to an earlier comment that these children are broken, sentence irrelevant they need either to be fixed or kept apart from real people

they're just too young for it to be 'crime' that lies with those tha raised them, but they are too dangerous to be people so need to be fixed or removed
 
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Graham00 said:
Apparently they watched the same Chucky film as the Bulger killers, how chilling ! as well as porn films and god knows what else, i listened to the Jeremy Vine show on Radio 2 today and an expert was talking how he sees children on a daily basis brought to court but without their parents who couldn't care less to see what happens to them. W e need American style boot camps but first we need to lose this human rights nonsense.
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Flash In The Pan said:
It must be a generation thing, because I don't understand a word of that :shrug:
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ok if i look at thread you quote me, if i go quote u quote someone else, his makes less sence than mine so i assume u mean him
 
Flash In The Pan said:
:thinking:



:thinking:



Nope....it's just you :shrug::p
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k :D i try explain,

I was joking as until the housebricks were mentioned poking and ciggy burns seem like a weekend away then a sexual innuendo type joke, pos too crass for tp. I did remove myself several hours ago maybe i shoulda stuck with that :S
 
david1701 said:
until the housebricks thats a fairly middling caving social

then it gets wierd as only the best caving socials end in sex acts

then I realise wtf you're on about at which point i come back to an earlier comment that these children are broken, sentence irrelevant they need either to be fixed or kept apart from real people

they're jsut too young for it to be 'crime' that lies withthose tha riased them, but they are too dangerous to be people so need to be fixed or removed
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they threw or in engish "chucked house bricks" at the victims do I need to say more the report on the news did not say it but did say it
 
Flash In The Pan said:
It must be a generation thing, because I don't understand a word of that :shrug:
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sorry Graham




they made the victims perform sex acts on them



I WOULD PERSONALY SHOOT THEM ON A WALL but its not allowed as the do gooders would say something ................get em out of the gene pool is my response
 
Dangermouse1964 said:
they threw or in engish "chucked house bricks" at the victims do I need to say more the report on the news did not say it but did say it
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no but they were kids that did it (unless I have the wrong story in which case mentioning it so I shut up would be appreciated), kids don't understand what is going on, the problem lies with whoever raised them to not find the idea of torturing and killing the weak repulsive an idea I think is generic through every culture I know of
 
Although I don’t condone the action of these two boys and what they did goes way beyond truly sickening, and I agree that 5 years is nowhere long enough, based on what I’ve read, their father should be locked up life (actually I think he should be hung but that’s a not a matter for this thread).
He also covered for them when the Police turned up so he is a sick *******.
The were subject to / witnessed domestic violence, gruesome horror films and smoking dope at such a young age is asking for major psychopathic issues.
Even the physiologist said she felt intimidated while interviewing one of them.
 
a friend of mine her daughter the same age as mine 3 came home and told her mum that one of her friends had put his finger up her bum where the hell has he learnt stuff like that ???
the girl has has shown how she was touched on her dolly :o(
 
hashcake said:
Although I don’t condone the action of these two boys and what they did goes way beyond truly sickening, and I agree that 5 years is nowhere long enough, based on what I’ve read, their father should be locked up life (actually I think he should be hung but that’s a not a matter for this thread).
He also covered for them when the Police turned up so he is a sick *******.
The were subject to / witnessed domestic violence, gruesome horror films and smoking dope at such a young age is asking for major psychopathic issues.
Even the physiologist said she felt intimidated while interviewing one of them.
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and that thing is going to be allowed to grow into a physcotic adult capable of killing any one for no reason....lets just put em out of their misery now and spare us normal people the pain later
 
I keep coming back to the one thing with these stories that is missing from an early age whether at home or more importantly at school = DISCIPLINE ! :bat:
Too many do gooders going....:nono: then you end up with :help: :bang:
 
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Graham00 said:
I keep coming back to the one thing with these stories that is missing from an early age whether at home or more importantly at school = DISCIPLINE !
Too many do gooders going....:nono: then you end up with :help: :bang:
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but what made them what they are, was it too much or too little discipline (don't know the answer to this btw, just that it should be considered int this context)
 
david1701 said:
but what made them what they are, was it too much or too little discipline (don't know the answer to this btw, just that it should be considered int this context)
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I would have thought not enough because todays kids don't have any fear, they need to know the difference between right and wrong otherwise they go unpunished which results in doing whatever they want.
 
Graham00 said:
I would have thought not enough because todays kids don't have any fear, they need to know the difference between right and wrong otherwise they go unpunished which results in doing whatever they want.
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Graham,

When I left school in 1988, there was still that level of understanding between pupil and teacher where you didn't cross the line (unless you were stupid :bonk:). Just after this, Esther Rantzen and the NSPCC were trying to get smacking banned and I'm not sure what year it was but all threats were taken away.

That has been the problem. In the old days, if I'd gassing/messing around instead of doing my sums, the teacher walking around would had given me a clip round the back of the head to let me know that it had been spotted. Not as bad as 10 years earlier with board dusters aimed at kids (rumoured ;)) My missus is a secondary school teacher and the kids say what they like, walk out if they want etc. No discipline because they know the teachers cannot grab them by the arm and pull them back into the lesson. They'll cry abuse.

It's been 20 years now since the rules have changed and look at the kids coming through. The language, politeness, spitting, decency. It's all wrong :nono:

I know what the NSPCC wanted the changes to do but many more cases of nastier child abuse have appeared over the last couple of years due to lack of rules passed down from generations. The 2 young lads who killed James Bulger, Victorie Climbie, Baby P, and these 2 devils in Doncaster.

We need to turn the clock back so coppers like Gene Hunt can drag you back to your parents and your more worried about what your parents will do than a clip round the ear from the local constabulary.
 
When I was doing alevels 10 years ago the years that were leaving were polite and nice people, however, the 13-14 year olds coming in were right little ****s!! Yes, you should require a licence to have children, children without a licence = no benefits.

However, in these cases, everyone is ready to kill the lads involved, if it was my kids i'd probably be the same. But my mum and step dad have worked in mental institutes with crimals/peados and now both work in uttoxeter mens prison. When you hear the stories that some of these guys went through as kids its no wonder they turned to crime.

I'm not saying what these lads did was ok, it wasn't, but, just perhaps, they were victims as well?
 
Some of you guys need to read the details of these boys' life, their problem is not lack of discipline or not being smacked, it's just the opposite.
As I understand it the sentence is not five years, it's five years minimum, the judge said "you will not be released until you are no longer a threat to society". Certainly they needed locking up but they also need some serious help getting their heads straight too if what we read of their upbringing is true. Harvey Nikon has it right I think.
 
There aren't words to describe what these two boys did. Anyone who has read any of the details of what went on that 90 minutes can't help but be sickened.
One of the articles is here on the BBC News site, but some people may find it upsetting reading.

I've seen this morning that the parents of the attackers could very well be charged too - and so they should be. But I find it very hard to buy into the opinions that these boys did what they did purely because of their upbringing, didn't know any better etc etc.

There's no doubt that these boys had an appalling childhood. However, I don't think this can be used to mitigate what they did.
Why did their parents treat them like that? Were they victims of that sort of childhood too? And their parents' parents? You can go on forever looking for reasons and places to attribute blame.

For me it's about time that people (youngsters included) started to realise that there are consequences to their actions and took responsibility for their own behaviour. Enough with blaming parents, schools, films, government etc etc.

Even at that age (and no matter what their background) children know the difference between right and wrong. And these boys clearly did.

At one stage in that 90 minute ordeal a passerby appeared and the boys covered their 2 victims with a polythene sheet to get them out of sight. (incidentally they then set fire to the sheet whilst it was over the boys causing burns to both of them)
On finishing with their two victims, the last words of one of the attackers was "One minute. I need to kill them both because they might just grass on us"

They were obviously aware of what they were doing, that it was wrong and that there could be consequences.

Sorry to ramble on, but this whole sorry mess has just sickened me.
 
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SarahLee said:
There aren't words to describe what these two boys did. Anyone who has read any of the details of what went on that 90 minutes can't help but be sickened.
One of the articles is here on the BBC News site, but some people may find it upsetting reading.

I've seen this morning that the parents of the attackers could very well be charged too - and so they should be. But I find it very hard to buy into the opinions that these boys did what they did purely because of their upbringing, didn't know any better etc etc.

There's no doubt that these boys had an appalling childhood. However, I don't think this can be used to mitigate what they did.
Why did their parents treat them like that? Were they victims of that sort of childhood too? And their parents' parents? You can go on forever looking for reasons and places to attribute blame.

For me it's about time that people (youngsters included) started to realise that there are consequences to their actions and took responsibility for their own behaviour. Enough with blaming parents, schools, films, government etc etc.

Even at that age (and no matter what their background) children know the difference between right and wrong. And these boys clearly did.

At one stage in that 90 minute ordeal a passerby appeared and the boys covered their 2 victims with a polythene sheet to get them out of sight. (incidentally they then set fire to the sheet whilst it was over the boys causing burns to both of them)
On finishing with their two victims, the last words of one of the attackers was "One minute. I need to kill them both because they might just grass on us"

They were obviously aware of what they were doing, that it was wrong and that there could be consequences.

Sorry to ramble on, but this whole sorry mess has just sickened me.
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Well said & I totally agree with you. Far to much of this blaming the 'system' these days.
 
If your actions are a reflection of what you experienced in early life then Pac-Man would have made me listen to loud music with a repetitive beat and eat pills that made me feel invincible.

Oh. wait a minute.......

So why does my sister in law think it is acceptable for her 7 year old to play world of warcraft?
 
Graham00 said:
I keep coming back to the one thing with these stories that is missing from an early age whether at home or more importantly at school = DISCIPLINE ! :bat:
Too many do gooders going....:nono: then you end up with :help: :bang:
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actually you'll find that at school it is incredibly difficult to discipline a disruptive child, unless they have been brought up at home to respect those around them, respect authoritative figures, taught to know where the line is, whats right and whats wrong etc, then teachers (as with anyone) will struggle to control that child. your post has it backwards im afraid, without those incredibly important early lessons from their parents its very difficult for the school to do anything, and if the parents don't support the school (etc) when it tries to do something then its an almost impossible task.
 
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For me it's about time that people (youngsters included) started to realise that there are consequences to their actions and took responsibility for their own behaviour. Enough with blaming parents, schools, films, government etc etc.
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I agree with your thread to a point. I agree that these boys knew the difference between right and wrong and for that they should be punished. But I disagree about enough with blaming the people around them. Eleven years ago these kids were born pure and through the actions of people around them turned into sadists, that doesnt happen organically. From the articles regarding the parents I agree with you also these people should be locked up as well.

In my mind for not giving a child the love and guidance they need and for essentially turning them into monsters who may never be rehabilited then they need throwing in jail as well. Just my opinion of course.
 
Vic said:
Eleven years ago these kids were born pure and through the actions of people around them turned into sadists, that doesnt happen organically. From the articles regarding the parents I agree with you also these people should be locked up as well.
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The whole nature / nurture debate's being going on for decades. Are people born bad or made bad . . . why is it that some people from good homes and backgrounds still turn out evil?
We're not going to resolve it here and in the case of these boys there's little doubt that their home-life had some influence on them.

I do see where you're coming from Vic, and perhaps you're just a kinder person than me.
Where I struggle with your line of thinking, is where does it end?
You could say that 30 / 40 years ago their parents were born pure too and something happened in their lives to make them into the type of parent that they are . . . and why did the person who negatively impacted their life do what they did?

IMO there's a point where you should stop looking at apportioning blame and just stand up and take responsibility for your own choices.
 
SarahLee said:
The whole nature / nurture debate's being going on for decades. Are people born bad or made bad . . . why is it that some people from good homes and backgrounds still turn out evil?
We're not going to resolve it here and in the case of these boys there's little doubt that their home-life had some influence on them.

I do see where you're coming from Vic, and perhaps you're just a kinder person than me.
Where I struggle with your line of thinking, is where does it end?
You could say that 30 / 40 years ago their parents were born pure too and something happened in their lives to make them into the type of parent that they are . . . and why did the person who negatively impacted their life do what they did?

IMO there's a point where you should stop looking at apportioning blame and just stand up and take responsibility for your own choices.
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I completely agree Sarah. I just dont know if 11 years old is the point where you can take full blame. I cannot obviously name a certain age but say 18, thats when you take full responsibility for your actions, you are an adult, you should be less impressionable and you have had enough life experience to know whats right and wrong. But its a fine line and I suppose every single person is different :shrug: I dont know if eleven years old is possibly an age where they can be reformed? I sure hope so.
 
Graham00 said:
Apparently they watched the same Chucky film as the Bulger killers, how chilling ! .
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Where's Gary ( the mod :D)

Chilling indeed
but I don't accept that as mitigation!
When I was younger ( if I can remember that far back)
I used to watch horror films Ok so not a graphic as they are today, and some have become classics
( Frankensteins monster, Dracula, Peter cushing Christopher Lee era) but were were still chilling in there own way
And who can forget that gentle classic The exorcist, I guess the start of modern day "horrors"

But it didn't incite me to go build "something" outta spare body parts
or drink the blood of any passing virgin ( they were still difficult to find even back then :D)
 
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Vic said:
I agree with your thread to a point. I agree that these boys knew the difference between right and wrong and for that they should be punished. But I disagree about enough with blaming the people around them. Eleven years ago these kids were born pure and through the actions of people around them turned into sadists, that doesnt happen organically. From the articles regarding the parents I agree with you also these people should be locked up as well.

In my mind for not giving a child the love and guidance they need and for essentially turning them into monsters who may never be rehabilited then they need throwing in jail as well. Just my opinion of course.
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I totally agree with you Vic. Those boys are just children and something hellish has happened to them to make them so bad - showing signs of psychopathic behaviour.The boys have modelled thier behaviour on that of their father and we have heard that he beat their mother and them without reason and mercilessly. They had no boundaries, no love and no good example.Yes discipline comes into the raising of children but not the sort of 'discipline' that was meted out to these boys.Children need discipline within a loving family.

I believe that it would be possible to change these boys. I think they are young enough to respond to a fair and caring regime.This may sound soft but these children have suffered far more in their short lives than any punishment that can be passed on them. I think it will take many years to put right that damage so I hope they will be kept in protective custody long enough to make them safe to release.

Unfortunately I dont think these boys are such a rarity nowadays. On many estates children their age are carrying knives and there are a lot of children watching violent adult films and playing violent computer games. As well I believe that one thing that is missing most from a lot of boys nowadays is a good male role model who takes an interest in them.

I hope the parents of the boys, especially the father , are locked up for a long time because, in my view, they are as culpable for what happened to the child victims of this awful crime as the attackers were.Yes they may have been victims of abuse as children too- the cycle goes on from generation to generation. However they are adults and as such should have realised that what they learned as children was not the right way to live.
 
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ladysue said:
I totally agree with you Vic. Those boys are just children and something hellish has happened to them to make them so bad - showing signs of psychopathic behaviour.The boys have modelled thier behaviour on that of their father and we have heard that he beat their mother and them without reason and mercilessly. They had no boundaries, no love and no good example.Yes discipline comes into the raising of children but not the sort of 'discipline' that was meted out to these boys.Children need discipline within a loving family.

I believe that it would be possible to change these boys. I think they are young enough to respond to a fair and caring regime.This may sound soft but these children have suffered far more in theur short lives than any punishment that can be passed on them. I think it will take many years to put right that damage so I hope they will be kept in protective custody long enough to make them safe to release.

Unfortunately I dont think these boys are such a rarity nowadays. On many estates children their age are carrying knives and there are a lot of children watching violent adult films and playing violent computer games. As well I believe that one thing that is missing most from a lot of boys nowadays is a good male role model who takes an interest in them.

I hope the parents of the boys, especially the father , are locked up for a long time because, in my view, they are as culpable for what happened to the child victims of this awful crime as the attackers were.Yes they may have been victims of abuse as children too- the cycle goes on from generation to generation. However they are adults and as such should have realised that what they learned as children was not the right way to live.
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Wise words.
 
now it was a horrifying neww story but having read / heard what those kids went through, made to watch porn and violonce with the parent, smoking drugs and drinking alcohol at home by the age of 9 ..... these boys were MADE into monsters !!

99.9% of humans are not born evil, its things in life which happen to make the weak turn nasty ! No excuse though i suppose

I feel slightly sorry for the little *****'s uprbingings, but even more sorry for the poor victims :( I admit that had they done such things to my boy then they would have no life to live !!!
 
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