WB opinions

[Grasshopper]

I have just got myself a lovely crisp white sheet of perspex after seeing some great shots on here who use it to get a really clean look for a back drop. I am however having trouble deciding on which WB to use to do the crisp white justice. Does anyone else on here use this sort of thing or have any experience that could help me.

 

[russellsnr]

Hi, I think you will find as long as you shoot in RAW that WB will not be a problem, your problem will be exposure if you are using it as a back drop as the in camera meter will maybe over expose to compensate for the white background, I would first take a spot reading of the rest of the composition and find out the difference compared to the white background, I maybe wrong but I should think in natural light it will be around the two stop mark.
No expert JMO
Russ

 

[Grasshopper]

Hi, I think you will find as long as you shoot in RAW that WB will not be a problem, your problem will be exposure if you are using it as a back drop as the in camera meter will maybe over expose to compensate for the white background, I would first take a spot reading of the rest of the composition and find out the difference compared to the white background, I maybe wrong but I should think in natural light it will be around the two stop mark.
No expert JMO
Russ

Thanks for your reply Russ, I did think about the exposure so was using spot metering rather then matrix as I figured that would be better. It's more the colour of the white. I tried all the presets in my D90 but was not sure. Wondered if anyone uses custom as I have no experience with that at all. I do shot in RAW but have only just started to do so, so I am not 100% yet, when you say it should not be a problem if I shoot RAW, do you mean because I can adjust in PP?

 

[Deleted member 34016]

WB on RAW files is fully adjustable in Photoshop CS5

Les

 

[russellsnr]

Thanks for your reply Russ, I did think about the exposure so was using spot metering rather then matrix as I figured that would be better. It's more the colour of the white. I tried all the presets in my D90 but was not sure. Wondered if anyone uses custom as I have no experience with that at all. I do shot in RAW but have only just started to do so, so I am not 100% yet, when you say it should not be a problem if I shoot RAW, do you mean because I can adjust in PP?

Hi, yes you can adjust in PP but!! better to get it correct in camera.
You are better to shoot RAW, cards are cheap nowadays so really no excuses not to shoot RAW.
Russ

 

[Pookeyhead]

Hi, yes you can adjust in PP but!! better to get it correct in camera.

If you are shooting RAW it literally makes no difference. What is important is you have a means of being able to accurately adjust it post process, so essentially, you should have a test shot at the start of the session with a grey card in the image, then you can batch WB the whole session against that.

 

[Phil V]

Thanks for your reply Russ, I did think about the exposure so was using spot metering rather then matrix as I figured that would be better. It's more the colour of the white. I tried all the presets in my D90 but was not sure. Wondered if anyone uses custom as I have no experience with that at all. I do shot in RAW but have only just started to do so, so I am not 100% yet, when you say it should not be a problem if I shoot RAW, do you mean because I can adjust in PP?

What are you spot metering from and how are you lighting them.

The crisp white is a function of the exposure rather than the WB. It's down to careful lighting and overexposing the background just enough to make it white without blowing it so that it causes flare or wraparound lighting on your subject.

 

[Grasshopper]

What are you spot metering from and how are you lighting them.

The crisp white is a function of the exposure rather than the WB. It's down to careful lighting and overexposing the background just enough to make it white without blowing it so that it causes flare or wraparound lighting on your subject.

That's great phil, thanks for your help. I think some of my problem is not good enough lighting. I only have one flash gun and not much else so have been looking in the lighting part of the forum for some ideas as to what sort of set up would help me. I will defiantly try and be more conscious of my metering and exposure. I have been using centre so maybe using spot as you said it will help. Thanks again.

 

[HoppyUK]

That's great phil, thanks for your help. I think some of my problem is not good enough lighting. I only have one flash gun and not much else so have been looking in the lighting part of the forum for some ideas as to what sort of set up would help me. I will defiantly try and be more conscious of my metering and exposure. I have been using centre so maybe using spot as you said it will help. Thanks again.

If by a 'crisp white' background you mean pure white, then that is blown, deliberately over-exposed - it's the only way to guranteee pure white all over and when it's blown, white balance is irrelevant. The trick, and it's not easy, is to make it only just blown, like half a stop or so, and it must be evenly over-exposed all over. Hot spots will eat away at the subject outline and cause flare.

Lots of threads on this, but you need three lights to do it properly (two on the background) and a fair amount of knowledge and skill.

 

[Phil V]

John

With one flashgun, you can do some awesome things. But a portrait with a crisp white background isn't one of them.

Do you have any means of getting the flash off the camera?

Do you have any modifiers of any description? Stands, reflectors?

Alternative background materials?

 

[Grasshopper]

John

With one flashgun, you can do some awesome things. But a portrait with a crisp white background isn't one of them.

Do you have any means of getting the flash off the camera?

Do you have any modifiers of any description? Stands, reflectors?

Alternative background materials?

I have a Nikon D90 with SB600 falsh so can run the flash away from the camera but have still not worked out quite how yet. As for any other equipment, I do not really have anything. I am only working with small things like Lego and flowers for now as I am trying to perfect that before I move on. My Perspex is only 600mm wide by 1000mm bent in the middle to make a right angle which has worked well for my small projects but as for lights I am under gunned. I made a home made reflector from some tin foil which is ok when using a desk lamp but not great. I have been looking on the lighting part of the forum but there are so many suggestions I have got a bit lost as to what would be the best way forward. I don't want to spend a fortune and would be quite happy with second hand if I could find the right equipment, it just working out what that is? Any suggestions?

 

[Phil V]

Now I understand what you're shooting:

Depending on the effect you want, you have several options.

The best start, if you have suitable space, is windowlight. By moving the background you'll see how the shadow behaviour changes. Add the reflector and experiment with distance and angle and see how it fills the shadows. Try a white reflector and see how it behaves differently. Try black too - you'll see how it can be useful in some situations.

You can add the flash behind the perspex to completely change the look of the BG, you can even gel it and create some groovy backgrounds with a little effort.

If you want to use the desklamp, you'll have to eliminate natural light unless you get a daylight bulb (fluorescent will cause your WB issues), it'll not be easy to balance with flash due to the low power. If you are going to use the desklamp you should follow the camera instructions for setting a custom WB, or shoot RAW and adjust in post.

 

[st599]

Hi, yes you can adjust in PP but!! better to get it correct in camera.
You are better to shoot RAW, cards are cheap nowadays so really no excuses not to shoot RAW.
Russ

Camera RAW is a file containing the DAC outputs prior to colour correction being done.

 

[Lyonspride]

If you absolutely must shoot in JPG, then I recommend one of those WB lens caps (Ebay approx £3), I used to use one to custom set WB and I personally found that it worked brilliantly.

TBH though, I'd agree with any and all above who say to shoot in RAW.

 

[steveo_mcg]

For some reason I've got a grey card in my wallet behind one of my lesser used credit cards. Comes in handy now and again.

 

[Phil V]

For some reason I've got a grey card in my wallet behind one of my lesser used credit cards. Comes in handy now and again.

In case someone who reads this doesn't know, grey isn't good as a wb target at high ISO's (the noise can throw them miles out). At high ISO's white is better, in fact as white always works, it's easier to just use one target. But there is no 'right and wrong', use whatever works.

 

[HoppyUK]

In case someone who reads this doesn't know, grey isn't good as a wb target at high ISO's (the noise can throw them miles out). At high ISO's white is better, in fact as white always works, it's easier to just use one target. But there is no 'right and wrong', use whatever works.

Yes, and you'll often find some white in an actual photograph that will usually get things pretty close - shirt, blouse, car, tablecloth, white paint etc.

It's relatively easy to pick out a neutral white, whereas neutral grey is very hard to spot, eg grey/silver cars come in a dozens of different hues, but unless you see them standing side by side, they all look the same.

Envelopes are handy for white balance

 

[steveo_mcg]

In case someone who reads this doesn't know, grey isn't good as a wb target at high ISO's (the noise can throw them miles out). At high ISO's white is better, in fact as white always works, it's easier to just use one target. But there is no 'right and wrong', use whatever works.

I didn't know that. It's useful for metering too or else I'd swap for a bit of white card.

 

[Phil V]

I didn't know that. It's useful for metering too or else I'd swap for a bit of white card.

Don't make me say it!

It's tricky to use for metering as you'd need to get the spot meter on it soundly without your shadow interfering.

(I feel like I'm treading on your bunnies - sorry)

Although I have an inbuilt hatred of spot metering which isn't helping my opinions on this.

 

[steveo_mcg]

Say what?

I've largely grown to distrust average metering so tend to stick to spot and used carefully I find the card useful. With the usual caveats of course.

Don't worry about my bunnies, I find other people's way of working interesting even if I work differently.

 

[Phil V]

Say what?

I've largely grown to distrust average metering so tend to stick to spot and used carefully I find the card useful. With the usual caveats of course.

Don't worry about my bunnies, I find other people's way of working interesting even if I work differently.

Me too!