Warning to all using RMSD

dd1989

dd1989

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The post office started a new system this week that classifies restricted goods being posted via RM.

The woman was bloody arsy with me, she asked me what was inside, I said a camera, she said if the battery is a Lithium battery (it was a Li-Ion with a D300) it is a restricted good.

Anyway, she put a massive sticker on it and allowed it to be sent, then gave me a leaflet about what can and can't be sent from now on.

:cuckoo::cuckoo::cuckoo::bang::bang::bang:
 
Weird, I shipped my camera off last week and they didn't mention anything. When (if) my MBA goes I'll plead ignorance in the hope that they send it, and then I shouldn't have much need for it after that.

EDIT: OK, this makes more sense (or at least means less hassle):

Come January you won’t be able to ship them via Royal Mail unless they are being shipped (domestically and Internationally) when already installed in a device, or when shipped with a device (domestic post only).
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From 15 July, if you post aerosols, alcoholic beverages, mobile phones and other electronic items containing batteries, nail varnish, perfumes or aftershaves, you must comply with updated volume, quantity, packaging and labelling requirements.

The changes, which follow a review of Royal Mail’s position with the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), Department for Transport (DfT) and Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA), mean personal customers will be able to post all these items, which are currently prohibited by dangerous goods regulations, to UK addresses.

The updated set of rules will limit the risk posed by those consumer items containing flammable liquid, aerosols or lithium batteries when sent in the post.
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Sounds very sensible to me, can't see what's :cuckoo: about it.
 
ZoneV said:
Sounds very sensible to me, can't see what's :cuckoo: about it.
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Lithium batteries in cameras etc don't have enough lithium in for it to be a real danger. There's an EU ruling on it detailing the exact amounts, but RM have decided to ban shipping all of them. Sledgehammer / Nut scenario.
 
So if it is in the camera it is not a problem then?


Heather
 
Tigger.ufo said:
So if it is in the camera it is not a problem then?


Heather
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That's how it reads to me. Although I did take it out of the camera for my last shipment (they asked the value, but didn't ask what was inside) and put it back in its original shipping 'shoe'.
 
Tigger.ufo said:
So if it is in the camera it is not a problem then?


Heather
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Absolutely correct


From Royal Mail:
Lithium ion/polymer/metal/alloy batteries are allowed when sent with or contained in/connected to an electronic device, but are subject to packaging, volume and quantity restrictions.
Please see www.royalmail.com/restrictedgoods.

and some further detail


The maximum number of batteries allowed in each package is the number that may be connected to the equipment plus two spares. The maximum net quantity of cells or batteries is 5kg per package. Watt-hour rating must not exceed 20Wh per cell or 100Wh per battery. Each cell and battery must be of a type proven to meet the requirements of each test in the UN Manual of Tests and Criteria, Part III, section 38.3. Batteries are subject to these tests irrespective of whether the cells of which they are composed have been so tested.

Cells and batteries must be manufactured under a quality management programme as specified in the International Civil Aviation Organization’s Technical Instructions for the Safe Transport of Dangerous Goods by Air. Cells or batteries that are defective for safety reasons, or that have been damaged, are forbidden. Any person preparing or offering cells or batteries with or in equipment for transport must receive adequate instruction on the requirements commensurate with their responsibilities. The consignment must be accompanied with a document with an indication that the package contains lithium ion cells or batteries; that the package must be handled with care and that a flammability hazard exists if the package is damaged; that special procedures must be followed in the event the package is damaged, to include inspection and repacking if necessary; and also a telephone number for additional information.

Cells and batteries must be packed in inner packagings that completely enclose the cell or battery. Cells and batteries must be protected against short circuit, including protection against contact with conductive materials within the same packaging that could lead to a short circuit. The equipment sent with cells or batteries must be packed in strong rigid packaging and must be secured against movement within the outer packaging and packed to prevent accidental activation.

Lithium battery handling label to be applied ( see an example lithium battery label Opens in new window ). The sender’s name and return address must be clearly visible on the outer packaging.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Lithium batteries in cameras etc don't have enough lithium in for it to be a real danger. There's an EU ruling on it detailing the exact amounts, but RM have decided to ban shipping all of them. Sledgehammer / Nut scenario.
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But there is no "ban". They will still ship them, just with some restrictions (which appear to be sensible).
 
I got asked yesterday but just lied. However reading teh above I was okay anyway as battery was in camera!

I don't actually think Royal Mail is expensive for smaller items. Cost me £8 to send a camera and charger that got there the next morning and was insured up to £500. What is wrong with that?

Where they are getting expensive is anything over 2kg and largish in size meaning ParcelForce is the only option and that has gone up by a few quid.
 
RichardtheSane said:
Absolutely correct


From Royal Mail:
Lithium ion/polymer/metal/alloy batteries are allowed when sent with or contained in/connected to an electronic device, but are subject to packaging, volume and quantity restrictions.
Please see www.royalmail.com/restrictedgoods.
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Well that's dumb, because as an electronics engineer I would have much less trust with them fitted into a device, than if they were contained in appropriate protective packaging.

Nothing should be near the contacts of the battery during shipping, anything attached will become part of the battery, which in turn multiplies the risk of damage and short circuit, which in turn risks fire.

When not in use, I remove batteries from my Yongnuo YN467II because i'd read about the old version going faulty and sending the batteries into meltdown.


Having watched some fool cause a hugely toxic fire by tipping 3000 suspect CR2032 batteries into a black bin bag (how to make a giant ball of molten metal), im aware of the dangers, but RM seem to be taking the advice of an idiot.
 
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ZoneV said:
But there is no "ban". They will still ship them, just with some restrictions (which appear to be sensible).
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Unless I've missed something, you can only ship them if they're in a device. So if you want to buy a spare battery, you have to get it shipped by another courier, unless you are buying it along with the item it's a spare for.
 
Just back from the PO. They told me new regs came into effect today. (The leaflet they gave me is dated July 15th so it may have been midnight last night).

The way I read them, you can send a camera with a lithium battery. You can also send a spare that is not connected to the camera. There are some regs on quantities and protecting the terminals but they look pretty sensible.

However, you cannot send lithium batteries without an electronic device. Which seems a little odd. Even more odd, you can no longer send second hand NiCd or NiMH batteries. You can only send new ones in their original packaging.

The nice lady explained that ALL carriers including UPD, DHL and Hermes will have to comply with these regulations. I've found no indication anywhere that that is true.

In better news, although you can't send animal remains through the post, you can still send live spiders. Presumably if they die on the way you could find yourself in trouble.
 
JonathanRyan said:
In better news, although you can't send animal remains through the post, you can still send live spiders. Presumably if they die on the way you could find yourself in trouble.
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FFS you couldn't make it up! :lol:


Heather
 
So no-one will declare them so Royal Mail still won't know. Not sure how apple or dell or anyone else will do battery recalls if you can't send second hand ones on their own. Red tape nonsense.
 
I quite often get live locusts posted to me, they come in a box with airholes and the stickers say "Warning: contains live biological material". The postman pretty much throws them at me when I open the door, can't get them out of his hands fast enough :D
 
I would add that the reason Lithium batteries are under risk is not because of the lithium itself, it's the structure of the lithium battery as they're more unstable than NiMH & Nicad types. When under certain conditions they can deplete hydrogen gas, not only this but if they're even slightly crushed, the internal plates conduct to create a little bomb (not soo much that it lifts the roof off of a house) but it creates a very aggressive fire / chemical reaction. I use them in my jets and have had 2 explode for no apparent reason - one caused £6k worth of damage to my F35 turbine jet :(
 
That explains why P&P on my EN-EL4s were pricey last week, about 1/2 the cost of the battery.

At least I got them the next day....
 
dd1989 said:
The woman was bloody arsy with me, she asked me what was inside, I said a camera, she said if the battery is a Lithium battery it is a restricted good.
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Oh! Terribly sorry, Dear... OK, I'll take the battery out then just to be on the safe side.....
dsc_1315_zpsf7da873c.jpg

Err... I seem to be struggling a bit... I cant find where the battery might be.... do you think you could help me find it?

Or in this one!
dsc_1316_zpsaff5cb63.jpg


;) You can have so much fun when stupid people rely on rules rather than common sense!
 
My post office never ask what in the package,just what it worth to see if it has enough insurance cover :)
 
Gary said:
if i want my parcel to be delivered in a knackered old car, i'll use my own knackered old car :)
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There should be a "comment of the week" award, this one would be bound to win :lol:.
 
JonathanRyan said:
The nice lady explained that ALL carriers including UPD, DHL and Hermes will have to comply with these regulations. I've found no indication anywhere that that is true.
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acetone said:
Why does the thread pick out royal mail when everyone else has to comply too.
As I read it the Royal Mail lady was "arsey" for applying the new rules the OP did not know about/understand.

DHL. http://www.dhl.co.uk/en/express/shipping/shipping_advice/lithium_batteries.html

UPS http://www.ups.com/content/gb/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/batteries.html
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You've just provided the proof I was too lazy to Google for ;)

The RM always gets a kicking because historically couriers dealt with "professional" shippers (ones used to using their services and keeping up with regs) and RM dealt with amateurs. Add in a rather sub standard PR team (AFAIK there was no publicity campaign about the new regs and nowhere in the briefing does it say it's an IATA requirement) and you can see why punters in the queue get irate. Also, most people don't know that RM routinely fly a lot of stuff about the UK.

BTW to all the people discussing lying to the PO or not declaring stuff....those links seem to say it's an IATA regulation which could have the force of law. Pretty courageous to lie on an air waybill.
 
Arrived today, 2x Li-ion batteries for my DVR :)

I'm wondering why nobody made a huge fuss about these new "regulations", it severely limits what you can buy and how. It'll put people out of business too......


What about companies selling car batteries online? Those seem to fall foul of the rules.....
There's no f'in way i'm paying the likes of Halfrauds £100 for something I can get for £45 online.
 
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acetone said:
Why does the thread pick out royal mail when everyone else has to comply too.
As I read it the Royal Mail lady was "arsey" for applying the new rules the OP did not know about/understand.

DHL. http://www.dhl.co.uk/en/express/shipping/shipping_advice/lithium_batteries.html

UPS http://www.ups.com/content/gb/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/batteries.html
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Well I've only looked at the DHL one and that says you can ship batteries by themselves as long as they're not faulty and are packaged correctly. Whereas RM will only ship them with a device now. So it's not exactly the same stance that RM are taking. They're being more cautious than the regulations require them to be.
 
Lyonspride said:
Leading on from this....

http://www.royalmail.com/sites/default/files/Lithium-Battery-Guidance-171012_0.pdf

It seems you can't take your aftermarket batteries on holiday with you either.
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A quick read of the leaflet would seem to point to that being incorrect.

Page 12

Transport within Passenger Baggage

Certain restrictions apply to the carriage of lithium metal and lithium ion batteries even when carried by passengers as baggage. Once again, only batteries that have successfully passed the Tests outlined in Part III, Sub-Section 38.3 of the UN Manual of tests and criteria may be carried.

As said before batteries manufactured, distributed or sold by major companies do meet this requirement, however, certain replacement batteries which are not OEM or aftermarket batteries but simply low-cost copies of those – also called “fakes” – may not have undergone the required tests. Untested batteries are consequently excluded from air transport.

Users of equipment powered by lithium metal and lithium ion batteries should therefore be vigilant when buying replacement batteries from unknown sources, such as on markets or Internet auction platforms. The differences between genuine and copied battery types may not be visible but could be very dangerous; such untested batteries may have a risk of overheating or causing fires.

Because of the risks associated with the carriage of spare batteries these may not be transported within passenger checked baggage. Spare batteries must be in carry-on baggage.
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aftermarket batteries but simply low-cost copies of those – also called “fakes” – may not have undergone the required tests. Untested batteries are consequently excluded from air transport
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This ^^

A lot of us use the cheap aftermarket batteries, can any off us prove our batteries have passed these tests? The "fakes" are often marked identical to OEM.
I'd also like to know what they'll do, will they search everyones bags for untested lithium batteries?
 
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Lyonspride said:
This ^^

A lot of us use the cheap aftermarket batteries, can any off us prove our batteries have passed these tests? The "fakes" are often marked identical to OEM.
I'd also like to know what they'll do, will they search everyones bags for untested lithium batteries?
Click to expand...

I would suspect they would generally accept CE markings at face value unless they had specific reasons or intelligence not to.
 
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