Warning Graphic Picture of Matador being Gored

I think the score will more likely be matador 0 bull 0 as it was almost certainly killed anyway. Great photo though!
 
Hate bull fighting so nice to see the bull get one up on them ... go bull:clap:
 
Lensflare said:
Brilliant picture.

I would love to go and see a traditional bullfight...
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Maybe you should join in with one with that attitude... :cuckoo:

There are a lot of things that shouldn't exist in a civilised society. We banned hunting foxes with dogs and yet we remain part of a 'European Union' that allows a country to continue with things like bullfights and the Pamplona run. :bang:

Some things are best consigned to the past... And every example you mentioned should be there!

Si
 
Spiritflier said:
Maybe you should join in with one with that attitude... :cuckoo:

There are a lot of things that shouldn't exist in a civilised society. We banned hunting foxes with dogs and yet we remain part of a 'European Union' that allows a country to continue with things like bullfights and the Pamplona run. :bang:
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Well, sort of banned fox hunting. You can drag hunt with a foxy smelling rag and if the dogs happen to encounter a fox...

As for the Pamplona run, that's not dangerous for the bulls, just the people taking part. Its' the bull ring at the end and the bullfight in the afternoon that does for the bulls.

However, how far do you want to take your indignation. Is it cruel to shackle up a horse, restrict it's freedom and ride it about on roads? That's not natural for it. How about house rabbits, house only cats, small dogs as fashion accessories in handbags?
 
i was going to say define "banned" foxhunting.. there are reports that it is widespreadly still happening illegally.

that said i would go and watch a traditional spanish bullfight.
 
Domesticating animals and torturing to death are two quite different things.



I guess there's only gonna be one person on the annual dog shark baiting trip this year eh lensflare?
 
Spiritflier said:
There are a lot of things that shouldn't exist in a civilised society.

Some things are best consigned to the past... And every example you mentioned should be there!
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I think a really civilised society would allow individuals to express their own opinions, don't you?
 
Byker28i said:
Well, sort of banned fox hunting. You can drag hunt with a foxy smelling rag and if the dogs happen to encounter a fox...
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I shot more foxes than my local hunt ever caught but the point of my post was that bullfighting serves no purpose apart from 'entertainment' whereas at least fox-hunting with dogs has a vague justification!

Byker28i said:
...As for the Pamplona run, that's not dangerous for the bulls, just the people taking part. Its' the bull ring at the end and the bullfight in the afternoon that does for the bulls...
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Hmmm... Hooved animals running full tilt on cobbles and concrete! If that's not dangerous for the animals, I don't know what is. If you don't believe me, ask any farmer who's had a cow spooked in the milking yard! I know one or two who've had cows killed that way!

Byker28i said:
...However, how far do you want to take your indignation. Is it cruel to shackle up a horse, restrict it's freedom and ride it about on roads? That's not natural for it. How about house rabbits, house only cats, small dogs as fashion accessories in handbags?
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Ok, now you're just being pedantic... My indignation stretches as far as watching so-called 'civilised' people stand in a ring teasing a half-ton bull with a red cape and a sword and then kill it! Cock-fighting, dog-fighting, bear-baiting, etc... Just because they're 'traditional' or 'ethnic' doesn't make 'em right! :(

For the record, I don't agree with small dogs in any form... especially ones in handbags! :D

Si
 
Voyager said:
I think a really civilised society would allow individuals to express their own opinions, don't you?
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Yep and in a civilised society, people identify themselves using their given names... Oh... Sorry! ;)

I have no problems with opinions, I just don't like misinformed ones! :cuckoo:

Si (that's my name ;))
 
Spiritflier said:
I shot more foxes than my local hunt ever caught but the point of my post was that bullfighting serves no purpose apart from 'entertainment' whereas at least fox-hunting with dogs has a vague justification!
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Sorry Simon but I'm not sure how anyone can say that hunting a fox with a hundred head of dogs and a couple of dozen people on horseback is more justifiable than a man against a bull. Organised hunts are more about entertainment than an effective form of pest control.
 
Kev M said:
Sorry Simon but I'm not sure how anyone can say that hunting a fox with a hundred head of dogs and a couple of dozen people on horseback is more justifiable than a man against a bull. Organised hunts are more about entertainment than an effective form of pest control.
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Hi Kev,

I think you may have misunderstood my post. I meant to say is that it's arguable that fox-hunting with dogs can be justified whereas I've never seen anything that can justify bull-fighting. I don't like fox-hunting either but from a pest-control point of view (something I did as a business for 15 years), I can see a flawed argument for fox hunting (even though I dislike the idea).

They're both wrong in my eyes but I think that one is more 'wrong' than the other (if that makes sense). ;)

Regards,
Si
 
I get you now Simon. I think this is one of those threads that could get heated and appreciate your cool response to my argument. I think this is one of those threads I'm best staying away from to help keep the BP down.

All the best.
 
Kev M said:
I get you now Simon. I think this is one of those threads that could get heated and appreciate your cool response to my argument. I think this is one of those threads I'm best staying away from to help keep the BP down.

All the best.
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It's ok Kev. It's a divisive argument at the best of times! ;)

I think I might join you and sit on the sidelines for the rest of this one... You bring the drinks and I'll bring the popcorn :D

Si
 
Matador seems to have got the point.
 
Spiritflier said:
I have no problems with opinions, I just don't like misinformed ones! :cuckoo
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What is misinformed about someone writing "Brilliant picture'? And what is wrong with commenting "I would love to go and see a traditional bullfight..."?

But because you happen to not like the idea of bullfights you think your 'opinion' should overrule anyone who thinks that they would like to see one. How patronising is that?
 
Voyager said:
...But because you happen to not like the idea of bullfights you think your 'opinion' should overrule anyone who thinks that they would like to see one. How patronising is that?
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Wow, talk about jumping to conclusions! I don't believe I said that my opinion overruled anyone elses!

Define: Assume... A word broken into three parts: "Ass", "U", "Me"... In other words, to 'assume' makes an 'ass' out of 'u' in front of 'me'! :D

Si
 
Spiritflier said:
I shot more foxes than my local hunt ever caught but the point of my post was that bullfighting serves no purpose apart from 'entertainment' whereas at least fox-hunting with dogs has a vague justification!
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Pest control? But hasn't the fox got a right to live free and wild.
Fox hunting was always more about rushing around on horses than pest control.

Spiritflier said:
Hmmm... Hooved animals running full tilt on cobbles and concrete! If that's not dangerous for the animals, I don't know what is. If you don't believe me, ask any farmer who's had a cow spooked in the milking yard! I know one or two who've had cows killed that way!
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But you were saying about the Paloma run. How many bulls/cows are killed/injured during the 825m run, compared to how many people. I'm not aware of any animals injured during the run, but then do finish the run at the bull ring.

Spiritflier said:
Ok, now you're just being pedantic...
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But of course, to get a point across. An opinion of animal cruelty stretches across many points of view, from an extreme of keeping pets, through fishing right up to staged animal fights. It just depends on your point of view and upbringing. It's that that moves the line of acceptability.
 
Spiritflier said:
Wow, talk about jumping to conclusions! I don't believe I said that my opinion overruled anyone elses!
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Don't you think that you are trying to exert your opinion on others?

You have not explained how commenting - "Brilliant picture. I would love to go and see a traditional bullfight..." was worthy of that 'shouldn't exist in a civilised society' yet have you?

Your reply seems to suggest that you thought that the posters opinion was 'misinformed'. I think that could be rather patronising. Hence my question (not a conclusion, you can tell as it has a question mark at the end) of 'How patronising is that?'
 
Guess he will have a big dentist bill after that fiasco, serve him right sadistic moron.
 
menthel said:
I think the score will more likely be matador 0 bull 0 as it was almost certainly killed anyway. Great photo though!
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You are right. what ever the outcome the Bull is always slaughtered.

The fight is the only time a Fighting Bull ever sees a man on his own feet.
It would be extremely dangerous to let it live.
 
So they end up only 'fighting' the weaker ones? Ooooh, aren't they brave?
 
The Bull has to win now and then surely. Makes a trip to the dentist look tame though.
 
Hmm, well Ive hunted for probably 35 years and all different types of hunting for that matter too mostly revolving around the pest control area of things, but I wont be hypocritical about it, bull fighting does not sit well with me, I help keeper on a local grouse moor, our grouse are very much in decline, and not because of raptors (of which I love to see) it is mainly because of birdwatchers trampling over the moor in the nesting season disturbing every bloody thing going, and these are the people supposed to be championing the very thing they are wrecking, just doesnt make sense, they also interfere and break our Larsen traps used for catching corvids ( crows ) and let the caught birds go, the very birds that predate on the eggs of the birds they love to photograph :bang:
 
Eeeek, I like to think I'm not squeamish but that made grit my teeth.
 
I think is pitiful and pathetic the concerns of people regarding the bull, their disdain for the bull fighter and their apparent lack of awareness about the world they love in...

Personally I don't regard what they do as bull fighting, an art form or a sport as some call them. Not glad for the bull either, purely for basic human empathy its a pity the guy got hurt.
 
Lensflare, i grew up on a farm, i've been in an abbatoir, i've been on a fox hunt & i've been to a bullfight. The most disturbing of all was watching a bullfight in Spain on a Sunday teatime on the tv put on for the entertainment of the masses These events have left an impression on me- animals are part of the food chain but are not to be abused. Good luck to the bull- its a pity that the matador is in hospital recovering & not on the slab

John
 
neil_g said:
i was going to say define "banned" foxhunting.. there are reports that it is widespreadly still happening illegally.
.
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Get your facts, right it is happening and complying with the law of the land as it stands which is thank goodness a complete mess and allows us to still ride to the hounds and watch a couple do there job for the land owners.

Wilky
 
Makes me laugh how we banned hunting for being cruel, yet still allow fishing!!

I personally dont think either should be banned, but if you ban one surely you need to ban the other? A bit like banning brandy but not banning whisky
 
Best quote for me from the article ...

"The horn of the animal tore into the bullfighter's throat and emerged through his mouth in a dramatic goring on Friday evening that had the crowd screaming in horror."



Having animals tortured and repeatedly stabbed for several hours gets no reaction from the crowd .... But one matador hurt gets them screaming in horror ... :shrug:
 
edumad said:
I think is pitiful and pathetic the concerns of people regarding the bull,
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Why? people are concerned about what they see as the torture of the bull, whether you agree or not you must understand this :)

edumad said:
their disdain for the bull fighter and their apparent lack of awareness about the world they love in...
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see above

edumad said:
purely for basic human empathy its a pity the guy got hurt.
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yep some of the wishes for the bull fighter to die are, ermm extreme, that's the internet for you :shrug: . If you extrapulate that argument you'd be wishing a lot of people dead....
 
edumad said:
I think is pitiful and pathetic the concerns of people regarding the bull, their disdain for the bull fighter and their apparent lack of awareness about the world they love in...
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The matador had a choice, the bull didn't ...
 
I find it interesting the reactions these things get both on the internet and in the real world.
Difference of opinion is what pushes society forward (in some cases) and makes the world go around :)

Some people would argue that bull fighting is cruel, yet other forms of hunting are ok, such as deer hunting, fishing, pheasant shooting... all entertainment and in many cases the animals suffer beore they die.

The only real difference is that bull fighting is done infront of hundreds of people rather than a handful of people.

does make me wonder what the sport would be like though if they didnt dull the horns or sedate them before they 'fight' the bulls.
I think you would find a lot more injuries like this one, and worse... and soon find a ban happening due to too many human injuries.
 
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