Volunteering!

archangel

archangel

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Mike
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No
As the title says ....and I don't mean offering your services to the local youth club or five a side team........

I was reading a few local publications today and they are all offering you the chance to volunteer your images, or your time to write articles to help their cause (all free of course with credits)........in other words help them make money without actually paying you......


I know this is an age old gripe but it drives me mad........

I wonder if the Editors of these publications would volunteer their services for free.......... :mad: RANT OVER!!!!! back to wine o clock(y)
 
it depends what the cause was - ive donated pictures to various zoos and nature reserves and stuff before , and I would for H4H if they wanted one of mine .. its fine if its a cause you care about and the money they save is going to help the cause... if on the other hand its a purely commercial enterprise then they are taking the pee
 
big soft moose said:
it depends what the cause was - ive donated pictures to various zoos and nature reserves and stuff before , and I would for H4H if they wanted one of mine .. its fine if its a cause you care about and the money they save is going to help the cause... if on the other hand its a purely commercial enterprise then they are taking the pee
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I have done the same with things that I am passionate about but this is all about commercial publications.....
 
I've donated both time and photos for causes I care about. In one casein a trustee and another I do voluntary work for them. Isn't up to the individual if they want to donate time orin another way?
 
It's not about donating ....it's about publications encouraging the public to send in images and stories for credit.........in one paper alone they had 3 request of readers summer images and 2 adverts for local would be writers who would like to report on local events.....all clearly staying the words unpaid and credits
 
Unfortunately whilst people will do it for nothing the pubs etc. will take advantage.
 
What he's saying is these buggers want the penny and the bun. They want to make money from their publications but not pay any out to the people that contribute to it.
 
I don't really see the problem. Newspapers etc have always used "local people" for free. My aunt used to be the village "correspondent" for the local paper No money ever changed hands (she didn't even get a free copy.). Most of the local sport reports where done by "team members" if for no other reason than if they didn't do it, it wouldn't be reported.
 
No one is forced to do it.
I fail to see a problem. :thinking:
 
viv1969 said:
No one is forced to do it.
I fail to see a problem. :thinking:
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So if you turn up for work one day and the boss sends you home saying he doesnt need you because someone turned up saying they will do your job for free.. wouldnt that be a problem? lots of staff photogrpahers got made redundant this week in birmingham.. not because the paper arnt using pictures anymore..

I am NOT complaining.. I have adapted to the situation.. But you asked the question and thats the ansewr :)

amazed you couldn't figure it out yourself to be honest...
 
@KIPAX The opening post isn't bemoaning the loss of employment, and none of the replies which follow did either. Except yours...which you couldn't resist ending with an attempted snipe...as you do. And people think I'm gripey :rolleyes:
 
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I will put my hand up and confess that I do submit a doodle every week to my local newspaper for free, but that is through my own choice and is something I enjoy doing. It's not as if I am making a living out of it (not supposed to in any case what with me being a home carer looking after an elderly mother). But, if and when the time does come and it is needed, it'll all look good on my CV and just once in a while, I do charge for personal requests (caricatures, which I admit isn't my favourite thing. :oops: :$ :D).
Of course, if I AM trying to make a living on being a cartoonist/illustrator in order to pay the bills then yes, I will have to be more firm when it comes to charging for my services. Also, I will be a tad annoyed if on the off chance I found out that someone else had stolen my doodle and is making money on it without my permission (as I still have the original draft and black line art on paper to prove that is it my own work).
 
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I wont even do it for for Charity after been bitten more than once by them.

As for publications the simple answer is no,good photos can help sell so why should they not pay for them ?
 
viv1969 said:
@KIPAX The opening post isn't bemoaning the loss of employment, and none of the replies which follow did either. Except yours...which you couldn't resist ending with an attempted snipe...as you do. And people think I'm gripey :rolleyes:
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I wasnt bemoaning it.. I was answerign a question... and i wasnt sniping...dont like it then press the complain button.. dont quite know who you think you are telling people off ? wannabe moderator or somehting? or just think very highly of yourself ...
 
archangel said:
As the title says ....and I don't mean offering your services to the local youth club or five a side team........

I was reading a few local publications today and they are all offering you the chance to volunteer your images, or your time to write articles to help their cause (all free of course with credits)........in other words help them make money without actually paying you......


I know this is an age old gripe but it drives me mad........

I wonder if the Editors of these publications would volunteer their services for free.......... :mad: RANT OVER!!!!! back to wine o clock(y)
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Can you elaborate a bit more? What exactly is the cause and in what way will they be making money from it?
 
u8myufo said:
Can you elaborate a bit more? What exactly is the cause and in what way will they be making money from it?
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I used to do some work for a paper....I got paid.....so did the other staff and freelance photographers...... we all got let go and now they only use locally submitted photographs for credit.....
.
It had 6 full time paid photographers. Ask get a basic pay off approx £28k, then another 8 freelancers for weekend work, who on average got £10k per year.

So by letting everyone go a wage save of almost a quarter of a million....... now they get all their images free for credit and they retain the right to use and sell said image as they see fit.......and uncle Bob and admit Jane get their name in lights.


You could call it savvy business acumen but you can be well assured that the editor or the directors are not doing it for free....
 
As with Ian D J's example you are working in an industry whereby for a lot of people wanting to get a foot in the door, they have to start off by doing it for free. My eldest son studied motorsport engineering at college. His first job, which was unpaid, was for a team based down in Hastings, we live in Essex. I paid for his fuel and upkeep of the car, just so he could gain experience and eventually find a job much nearer to home which did pay. You'll find, even now, teams in the BTCC the most prolific British motorsport championship, a lot of the pit crews and behind the scenes team personnel are volunteers, they do it for the love of the sport and probably in the hope that one day they may find a paying position with a team.
 
archangel said:
@Mr Bump
Firstly, I can't see where you are getting off with the assumption that I have done "JOG ALL" ...... saying that you have no knowledge of me or my personal life.....but just to quench your lack of my personal charitable achievements etc....
I recently stopped an old lady from falling.
I regularly provide food to homeless people by buying sandwiches etc.
I support local charity and events.
I help my neighbours and friends.
I volunteer to help local events.
I give up my time to teach in the community where possible....
These are just a couple of things that I have done recently.....all without wasting water.......
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Possibly doing someone out of a chance to earn some money?
 
nilagin said:
Possibly doing someone out of a chance to earn some money?
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Teaching in the community is not taking cash out of others pockets as these people just dont have the cash to pay for and learn new skills..... its an investment in the community and I am not asking anyone to give me their time in exchange for my or anyone elses profit....

So I dont really see your point!
 
There's loads of funded schemes teaching people new skills and the teachers get paid, but whilst you do it for free someone else is being done out of a job, that's the point.
 
archangel said:
I used to do some work for a paper....I got paid.....so did the other staff and freelance photographers...... we all got let go and now they only use locally submitted photographs for credit.....
.
It had 6 full time paid photographers. Ask get a basic pay off approx £28k, then another 8 freelancers for weekend work, who on average got £10k per year.

So by letting everyone go a wage save of almost a quarter of a million....... now they get all their images free for credit and they retain the right to use and sell said image as they see fit.......and uncle Bob and admit Jane get their name in lights.


You could call it savvy business acumen but you can be well assured that the editor or the directors are not doing it for free....
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Thats the way of the world.The guy I work for has two businesses doing the same line of work.When I returned back to work a few weeks ago after breaking my ankle, 6 of the shops I delivered to had been sold off and bought by the other company and my hours were cut by about 20 a week.It`s sheeite I know,you just have to accept it and get over it. I could start a thread complaining about it but what good does that do?As you say it`s an age old gripe and driving you mad,why let it get to you?Pointless getting worked up over something that you have no chance in hell of ever changing,lifes too short for all that.
 
It works both ways - I only read their free content online and actively encourage others to do the same and save trees and money

Edit I also block all their ads. I don't want them even for free
 
nilagin said:
There's loads of funded schemes teaching people new skills and the teachers get paid, but whilst you do it for free someone else is being done out of a job, that's the point.
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I understand that there are lots of funded schemes....but as you may find that people need to travel long distances, or they are not comfortable outside their own area..... and some just want company.......

Recently I have discovered a lot of these funded schemes are being reduced as Councils are trying to save cash.....

only the other day I found out that Kent County council has withdrew the totaal funding for people who want to develop their creative skills into a business so if you want to participate you need to find almost £4,000...... so I don't really see where I am taking someones wages if I can fill a gap and help someone.......

Don't forget that a lot of the community teach that I do is keeping local people in jobs such as caretakers, admin staff and the like as these are held in village halls and community centres and if these building were not getting used it wouldn't be too long until they are all out of a job....

* I do not make any money by taking others work and utilising it to make a profit for me or others which is what I stating in the original post.
 
archangel said:
Recently I have discovered a lot of these funded schemes are being reduced as Councils are trying to save cash.....
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Or spend it on themselves by other means. Yes your volunteering is helping others, but maybe highlighting what the council are doing would help a lot more people.
 
nilagin said:
Or spend it on themselves by other means. Yes your volunteering is helping others, but maybe highlighting what the council are doing would help a lot more people.
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I used to be a highlighter of these issues but I then soon realised that I was wasting time and resources when I could be spending time helping those in need......
 
KIPAX said:
I wasnt bemoaning it.. I was answerign a question... and i wasnt sniping...dont like it then press the complain button.. dont quite know who you think you are telling people off ? wannabe moderator or somehting? or just think very highly of yourself ...
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Pot and kettle :LOL:
And who have I told off? :thinking:
 
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archangel said:
I used to do some work for a paper....I got paid.....so did the other staff and freelance photographers...... we all got let go and now they only use locally submitted photographs for credit.....
.
It had 6 full time paid photographers. Ask get a basic pay off approx £28k, then another 8 freelancers for weekend work, who on average got £10k per year.

So by letting everyone go a wage save of almost a quarter of a million....... now they get all their images free for credit and they retain the right to use and sell said image as they see fit.......and uncle Bob and admit Jane get their name in lights.


You could call it savvy business acumen but you can be well assured that the editor or the directors are not doing it for free....
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Thats why a lot of papers are filled with crap photos :(
 
I think the "problem" is nowadays is that pretty much everyone has a smartphone which usually have an alrightish camera (good enough for farcebook or local rag) so playing devils advocate... if you are the pic editor and x happens, people will be sending it in / tweeting etc etc.. within seconds nowadays, so do you get it for free or pay for a pro pic? (We're talking about a snap in a local rag, not a prizewinning piece of journalism.)
 
Lynton said:
I think the "problem" is nowadays is that pretty much everyone has a smartphone which usually have an alrightish camera (good enough for farcebook or local rag) so playing devils advocate... if you are the pic editor and x happens, people will be sending it in / tweeting etc etc.. within seconds nowadays, so do you get it for free or pay for a pro pic? (We're talking about a snap in a local rag, not a prizewinning piece of journalism.)
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But in the old days a lot of photographer learned their skills starting out on the local rags,before moving up the chain to prizewinning journalism .
 
True but that was the old days, things move on. Most local papers live from hand to mouth now.
 
munch said:
True but that was the old days, things move on. Most local papers live from hand to mouth now.
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I completely agree.
They way many companies survive has changed a great deal. Many areas are greatly diluted.
30 years ago there weren't the huge number of "professional" photographers there are now either.
For some people it's about the money, for others the pleasure is simply seeing their image published.
Much the same can be said in novel writing. I've read some superb publications via kindle that didnt cost me a penny. Does that mean I'm robbing authors who choose to publish the traditional way?
 
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