venture photography

Hi

This is developing into a very good thread and an intersesting question is starting to develop i.e

" What is a good Photograph"

I suggest everyone sits back and actually asks themselves that question.

One of the greatest photographers ever to have lived was Ansel Adams. Yet nowadays every Tom, Dick or Harry produces stunning landsacapes. If you produce an identical photograph to one that Ansel Adams took does that mean you have produced a fantastic photograph or does the issue that to produce an Adams photograph has now become commonplace reduce them all to mere shots rather than stunning photographs?

Obviously they appeal to people and obviously they're a successful business--that doesn't change the fact that their photography is generally poor. It just demonstrates that the quality of photography is a far, far distant second to business skills when it comes to making a high street photography business whose main aim is massive volume. Which is obvious of course, but that doesn't make it any less palatable.

I am really surprised to hear a university student come out with such a comment. I have done my homework here and looked at your portfolios and I can tell you that as a 17 year old staff photographer on a local newspaper I was producing photographs that yours remind me. Tell me what you are doing to advance photography to new levels that I wasn't 30 years ago and to be frank my seniors had been doing 30 years before that.

All my working life I have heard photographers rubbishing others and I have always hated it. Fifteen years ago I wondered why I was struggling with a Hasselblad and three lenses and 12 shot rolls of film when I could shoot on 35mm and get better candid shots. My peers told me that what I was producing was rubbish because they did not have the quality of the Hassel (yes thas what it was a hassle lol) and yet my customers loved them and bought them - who was producing the best photographs I wonder and what do wedding photographer all tend to do these days?

Ten years ago I spent 20K on some stupid didital thing and again I remember standing in the queue at the photo wholeseller and listening to two characters saying that digital would never catch on - I wonder if they would admit to that conversation now!!! :lol::lol::lol:

I happen to like Venture style. Its different, its modern, you look at it twice, actually you keep looking at it. They are trying to advance photography in a world where everyone seems to have a camera. I can remember the days where I was seen as a magician because I could supply a sharp, clear photograph. Those days are long gone.


stew
 
I love high key and high contrast-but imho venture cook it just a bit too much sometimes. Sugar free photos tend to adopt the same look
 
Hi

Sugar free photos tend to adopt the same look not heard of that one, what/who are they?

stew
 
Hi

Sugar free photos tend to adopt the same look not heard of that one, what/who are they?

stew


^^^^^^^^^^^

Hi i was to frightened to ask. but while its been posted iam with this guy.

Regards Mark.
 
To me, this says it all:

Q: Do I need to be a photographer to qualify as a Franchisee?

A: No. We are looking for enthusiastic and talented people who certainly have a good appreciation of the art of photography but also possess great people skills, a healthy dose of business acumen and a desire to succeed in their own business.

So, to run a photography company, you don't actually need to be a photographer.........:thinking:

I can think of better ways to spend £80,000+ :gag:
 
To me, this says it all:

So, to run a photography company, you don't actually need to be a photographer.........:thinking:

I can think of better ways to spend £80,000+ :gag:

I think you'll find that's absolutely correct. You can run a Venture franchise without much in the way of photography skills... if you employ a photographer on your staff. The owner concerns himself with getting the customers in, not doing the technical stuff.

I took the family for a Venture shoot, and although I do think their pics are a little overpriced, the work some of the branches churn out is stunning. I ended up spending £1k on a piece (5 shots of varying sizes and depths, creating a great showpiece) and was completely comfortable paying that price for it. Anyone rediculing Venture on a whole is clearly jealous of their success, or is jumping on a very rickety bandwagon.
 
Im not impressed by this venture photography stuff. their photos look kind of junky to me. Way to over done and over dramatic. The cropping is pointless.

IMO

on a better note Good luck opening your own studio.
 
i think people are jealous and slightly dismayed (sp?) at the price of venture goods vs the quality and the fact people pay for them

face it you over expose/saturate pretty much anyones face and you'll loose detail and leave behind the most prominent features (eyes, lips etc) which is a great way to make a bad photo look "good"

add to that the fact they don't do custom sizes i've just got no love for venture.
 
I am really surprised to hear a university student come out with such a comment. I have done my homework here and looked at your portfolios and I can tell you that as a 17 year old staff photographer on a local newspaper I was producing photographs that yours remind me. Tell me what you are doing to advance photography to new levels that I wasn't 30 years ago and to be frank my seniors had been doing 30 years before that.

If churning out hundreds of thousands of identical, cookie-cutter, quasi-quirky, high contrast photos like Venture is where photography is advancing to, count me out.

Oh, and your point about Ansel Adams is best answered by the man himself:

I have often thought that if photography were difficult in the true sense of the term -- meaning that the creation of a simple photograph would entail as much time and effort as the production of a good watercolor or etching -- there would be a vast improvement in total output. The sheer ease with which we can produce a superficial image often leads to creative disaster.
 
Hi

I am glad I have been able to stimulate you into doing a search and find an extract from Adams that you might consider backs your arguement - not that I am sure what your arguement is other than saying venture is rubbish Rob.

What you are missing is that both Venture and Adams has something in common and that is they took photography to a new level. The way Adams developed the Zone system and his resultant fantastic B&W images and the way Venture has got the whole country talking about "their" style is worthy of appreciation.

stew
 
Hi

I am glad I have been able to stimulate you into doing a search and find an extract from Adams that you might consider backs your arguement - not that I am sure what your arguement is other than saying venture is rubbish Rob.

What you are missing is that both Venture and Adams has something in common and that is they took photography to a new level. The way Adams developed the Zone system and his resultant fantastic B&W images and the way Venture has got the whole country talking about "their" style is worthy of appreciation.

stew

They've done absolutely nothing to advance photography, though. They've (possibly) made it more widely available but how is that an achievement? Is commercial success some unparalleled achievement that renders the artistic qualities of their photographs unexceptionable?

Sure, they have an audience and I'm sure their audience likes them, but how that makes them exempt from criticism I don't know.
 
There's a big difference between 'proper' photography, image capture and commercial photography.

A functioning photographer who relies on real world photography of all sorts to pay the bills and put food on the table soon develops the wisdom to know the difference and which hat to wear, when. Venture is a commercial concern, a business and a franchise which happens to be in the field of photography. The business model could work in other fields. Venture services people who want that sort of photograph of their family because that family has seen another families photographs. Venture relies heavily word of mouth advertising, the best and least expensive. Is it formulaic ? Yes. Is it easy to do as a photographer ? Yes. Does it become tedious after a while ? Yes. Do the customers love it ? Yes, and that's what matters to the customer and the bottom line. That's why it's a success.

Am I a venture photographer ? No !

But I wouldn't rule it out in the same way that I wouldn't turn down an offer to shoot an Early Learning Centre catalogue or an Argos catalogue or even a La Senza catalogue. They will all be exciting at first but after a few hundred exposures it's all just work and work is what pays the bills. As far as advancing photography goes, that's a matter of opinion. Venture and other similar companies have opened up studio portraits to people who previously wouldn't have thought them accessible. That's got to be a good thing for all photographers ?
 
The highstreet photographer has been around long before Venture. I don't think they've done anything to advance photography. They've just made a brand. Do I think they take good photos? No not really but they sell in the same way as the Sun and Daily Mirror sell. They're a business interested only in profit. They have a copy / paste look splashed across all their studios. The photographers are all working to that brief, no creative freedom really. If you think Venture are good then you really need to broaden your photography horizons.
 
If you think Venture are good then you really need to broaden your photography horizons.

I think we're all missing a fundamental point...

One man's masterpiece is another man's folly.

Some will like what Venture does, others wont. That's no reason to ignorantly dismiss anyone who happens to like their photo's as "lacking photographic depth" with a flippant comment like the above!
 
Sure there is. Venture is just a bunch of cliches. There's much better photography out there.
 
If venture supply what the customer wants and they are happy to pay the price for it then good luck to them both.

I personally think the shots ive seen are over cooked but i still wouldnt dismiss the brand as a whole. My guess is if it was my family in the shots i'd be very happy with them.
 
Would you wish McDonalds good luck too? People are happy there. What about people selling knock-off merchandise in local markets? Happy to pay the price, so good luck. I realise those are the extreme ends but the point I'm making is that just because a business is successful doesn't actually mean its selling a quality product. It just means its a good business and well that means jack to me as I'm a photographer and thats what I rate.
 
The highstreet photographer has been around long before Venture

Venture IS a high street photographer ergo: Venture are just a continuation of the high street photographer, jazzed up to meet modern expectations of people who read 'hello' and 'whatever' and wear 'hair products' etc. And what's wrong with that ? Venture are serving a specific market in the same way as any Victorian photographer was with his posing chair and neck braces did back in the day. That was the style then, this is the style now. Give 'em what they want and everyone's happy. Is it good ? I've seen better, I've seen worse.

I know photographers often do a sort of photography they don't like in order to finance another sort of photography which they do like.
 
I'm making is that just because a business is successful doesn't actually mean its selling a quality product. It just means its a good business and well that means jack to me as I'm a photographer and thats what I rate.

But if the public are paying this price then surely its what they want?
Regardless of how good you think it is theres always someone who will buy it.

and knock off gear from a market is quality stuff ;)
 
The public can pay whatever they want for whatever they want. I still don't like it. Can't we say that now days? I don't like their work and I don't care if they're making lots of money because that doesn't justify it to me.
 
I still don't like it. Can't we say that now days?

You can, but it's as relevant as the Marmite debate. Some like it, some don't so what ? :)

There are only so many ways of doing family portraits in a given time frame and anyone who's ever done it will know it's best to stick to a routine.

Only the photographer will know it's a routine ;)
 
Venture is a bit like the children's storey of the "The Emperor's New Clothes", a good short Read here, it reads like, The Togs are the scoundrels and the customers are the emperors and we give them what they think they want, it's purely marketing and making people believe they desire it, and a studio has a shelf life as well, but that's another story.

Regards Mark
 
The public can pay whatever they want for whatever they want. I still don't like it. Can't we say that now days? I don't like their work and I don't care if they're making lots of money because that doesn't justify it to me.

But, you didn't say that....... briefly, you said that they have done nothing to advance photography.

They have done what a lot of 'street' togs have not been able to do for a long while..... come up with a photographic product which sells and, like it or not, has become rather successful!

Can I say the same of your HDR work? "It's done nothing to advance photography" could be a phrase that many will opine over and, indeed, have. Some have said it's great, others are less enthusiastic! I'll not go so far as to state "It's done nothing to advance photography" but it's placed it truly in the 'questionable' area of art versus photography.

Take the blinkers off Pete.... people are making money in the high street through Photography of one sort or the other, somebody must like it. Whether you like it or not is pretty immaterial and, dare I say it, immature!

Could you make a living out of your HDR work? As good as it is, it only appeals to a select, appreciative few. I applaud Venture in their area of business acumen. A niche market and they've capitalised.

My daughter, very apologetically, (she thought we'd be upset that we didn't get asked to do some family portraits) showed us her Venture album the other day. She made a load of complaints about the final, printed, presented quality. They met her needs. Altered the saturation.... did this and that.... finally they, as a family were pleased. Surely, that's what counts. I, didn't find the results "do nothing to advance photography".

My hat goes off to them for having the business nouse to provide a successful (if somewhat controversial) product. Wish I'd have had the bottle to come up with a franchisable service!
 
But, you didn't say that....... briefly, you said that they have done nothing to advance photography.

Yes and then in the quote you quoted I said I don't like it, honestly its getting silly now. By the way you should also be jumping down Robmiller's throat as he also said they've done nothing to advance photography.

They have done what a lot of 'street' togs have not been able to do for a long while..... come up with a photographic product which sells and, like it or not, has become rather successful!

So has McDonalds, as I said. So has Nike apparently from using child labour in China. So has Nestle from apparently bad practices with childrens milk in Africa. Yey for them they're successful woo. President Mugabe has been a "success" too. President Bush won his re-election so congrats to him even if I disagree with his policies. No I'm afraid that success just doesn't make me want to praise them.

Can I say the same of your HDR work? "It's done nothing to advance photography" could be a phrase that many will opine over and, indeed, have. Some have said it's great, others are less enthusiastic! I'll not go so far as to state "It's done nothing to advance photography" but it's placed it truly in the 'questionable' area of art versus photography.

Yer but I've been succesful with it so...

Take the blinkers off Pete.... people are making money in the high street through Photography of one sort or the other, somebody must like it. Whether you like it or not is pretty immaterial and, dare I say it, immature!

Its immature to say I don't like something just because its a success? What the hell is this forum doing here then? Close it. I'll now go around saying I'm completely indifferent to everything. Honestly, what the hell? I'm going to go around saying I agree with Hitler's Final Solution, I mean it worked didn't it. That was successful and clearly some people liked it. Oh oh no you can't say you dislike it, thats immature. Again, being extreme there but I'm just trying to point out how absurd it is to tell someone they can't dislike something because others like it or because it was a success. Its called an opinion and this forum is built on people discussing them.
 
Venture are the Bose of photography. Everything he just said was spot on - they've distilled it into a science.


I've picked up on the last few words of FruitFlakes because It leads onto my point.

Once upon a time there was a new science machine called a Printing press..

The first business to start printing must have been absolutely slated.. In fact they probably burnt a few owners at the stake.

Okay silly point, but a few hundred years later ..

Venture ...amongst many others about to burst from the old ways...

You might think the digital camera age started some time ago ... but in fact the 'digital manipulated image' is about to burst on the world big time... Well it already has, just look at how acceptable CGI is.

So to me Venture is just a first ripple, and long may those new ripples follow, continue and expand. :thumbs:
 
And I'm not welcome to mine? Opinion , that is!

So I'm jumping down your throat? Come on..... I just stated how I feel relative to your opinion about business and photography. It was easier to make a comparison with Venture and your HDR. I know nothing of Robmiller's work or opinions. Your's are more overt and controversial.

How you've reacted? I think your statement, "It's getting silly now" sums it up!

I will make judgments about HDR..... for me it's too far removed from pure photography to consider it to be an advancement of the cause. As an art form it works. I just don't like it ~ photographically speaking. (You should see me in the Tate Modern!) If you've been successful, great. Which is exactly where this debate sits with respect to Venture.

Isn't Venture like the genres of Habitat, Ikea et al? Clean, bright, visionary. Dare I say it? Different!

I'm not exactly patting them on the back..... their prices are way over the top in my opinion. But, if they can command that price then good luck to them.
 
I know nothing of Robmiller's work or opinions.

He wrote some in this thread, and alot more than "I still don't like them" which appears to be what set you off.

I will make judgments about HDR..... for me it's too far removed from pure photography to consider it to be an advancement of the cause. As an art form it works. I just don't like it ~ photographically speaking. (You should see me in the Tate Modern!) If you've been successful, great. Which is exactly where this debate sits with respect to Venture.

Its also exactly the point I was making with Hitler. At what point does success by any means become a bad thing that we can officially dislike?
 
He wrote some in this thread, and alot more than "I still don't like them" which appears to be what set you off.



Its also exactly the point I was making with Hitler. At what point does success by any means become a bad thing that we can officially dislike?

What set me off was the "done nothing to advance photography". Which is a very sweeping, thoughtless comment!

It's certainly set the ball rolling again in the High Street photography business. It had stagnated for years due to the banal, de rigeur stuff that togs have been churning out for years.

Hitler's success at the extermination of Jews (to which I guess you're alluding) is way off the mark and you should know better than this to support your argument. If any measure of success is survival then Hitler failed - signally! Please don't cause any more offense with this line of argument.

And who said at any cost? I certainly didn't. I don't recall anyone else doing so either.
 
Hitler is obviously the extreme end of the scale but the point was simply that there are things out there that are "successful" that people disagree with. So Venture makes money, I'm supposed to be happy for them when I dislike their product? Many people hate the iPod. Ask them if they wish Apple success in selling something they hate. Big Brother is a huge success, ratings wise but an absolutely terrible tv show. I'm not going to wish them good luck.
 
Wind it in a bit Pete. ;):lol:

Venture has done absolutely loads to advance photography. Not Photography as an art but photography as product.

There will be many folks that don't always like what they produce, it doesn't often get me all that excited but in the zone where photograph meets commerce, no-one impresses me more.

They underline a principle that I utterly believe in, that people will only ever value your art/product as much as you do. Venture charge obscene amounts for prints and people queue up to pay it.

How many of you slaters can say the same of your work?

Venture do not exist to push the boundaries of art, they exist to make money via the medium of photography and nobody but nobody does it better.

They have also invigorated the market in general, which is good for many smaller outfits.
 
Wind it in a bit Pete. ;):lol:

Venture has done absolutely loads to advance photography. Not Photography as an art but photography as product.

There will be many folks that don't always like what they produce, it doesn't often get me all that excited but in the zone where photograph meets commerce, no-one impresses me more.

They underline a principle that I utterly believe in, that people will only ever value your art/product as much as you do. Venture charge obscene amounts for prints and people queue up to pay it.

How many of you slaters can say the same of your work?

Venture do not exist to push the boundaries of art, they exist to make money via the medium of photography and nobody but nobody does it better.

They have also invigorated the market in general, which is good for many smaller outfits.

You see on the flip side all I see Venture as is "You know if we do this we can screw people out of money!" :) I mean if it were any other company would this be the same thing? Sony for example charged a stupid price for the PS3 when it launched and it got heavily slated. No-one said "Well kudos for trying to take huge amounts of money from the stupid saps that bought it." The iPhone when it launched was expensive, and still is a bit, but people only say "Apple produce expensive shiny toys for sheep who have too much money to waste." Venture is a business and they exist to make money by offering a product I don't like at a silly price. To me thats just not something I agree with.

How many of you slaters can say the same of your work?

I'm going to say me but then i'm feeling a little egotistical today so yey me. ;) But would I really want my style replicated and franchised around the country? No, I really wouldn't. I do this for the love of photography not the love of profit.
 
Venture do not exist to push the boundaries of art, they exist to make money via the medium of photography and nobody but nobody does it better.

I never disputed that, just don't ask me to respect it :/
 
So, Venture might not appeal to a lot of togs - BUT - they obviously do appeal to the paying public.

Considering there is another thread running at the moment about togs being undervalued and asked to do freebies, surely Venture's marketing success is a string to the bow against the freebie seekers?

Perhaps Venture's cookie-cutter sessions should be used as the minimum starting fee for an artistically directed shoot by an individual tog?
 
Can we all agree that Hitler did more to advance the art of photography than Venture but Venture is a better business model ?
 
I agree that Ventures prices are crazy but we went to get a family portrait done with the intention to just buy a single photo of us all and ended with several because we really liked them.The photographers who work for Venture follow their style but with their own twist and their own skills. The studio we went to asked about the family and gave us an appropriate photographer who managed to capture the family dynamic and our different personalities in a way that I was very impressed by, maybe another studio could have done it better or for less cost but I'm happy with what we got. We did ask for different crops of some photos and for changes to the contrast in others (and my sister wanted the mole on her chin back!!) and they were happy to do that.

Maybe we are just clueless mugs but I was very pleased with what we saw.
 
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