Utility Meters

wyx087 said:
You are not anal about your utility readings? Says the guy who reads meter on a daily basis :p
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Why are you so concerned about my posterior? I find that rather worrying... :exit:
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Why are you so concerned about my posterior? I find that rather worrying... :exit:
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Only because you seems to contradict your previous point.

With "dumb" meter, I usually send meter reading every other month, despite monthly reminder Emails. Only the people most "anal about use of their utilities" takes manual meter reading every single day.....
AndrewFlannigan said:
if you have enough sense to read the meter on a daily basis (which I do)
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I'm not anal about my utilities, but I really like the fact that I have a little device that automatically reads my meter every 30min/1day/monthly (you can set this with energy provider), without me lifting a finger. I find this to be many times better than having to manually do read meter readings.
 
wyx087 said:
It's about time-of-use. Using electricity at 11am have different carbon intensity and cost compared to using same electricity at 5pm.
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Yep, that'll be about the time people getting in from work ( during the winter turning on lights etc) and cooking for their family.
Do you think that they will change that habit / timings? I very much doubt it.
As before, I use what I need when I need it.
Nothing more nothing less.
No meter is going to change my mind on that.
wyx087 said:
Before you say this info can be used to spy on people. It's impossible.
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No one mentioned that, apart from you, seems like you are the one worried about it.
Or at least have looked into it.
 
Cobra said:
As before, I use what I need when I need it.
Nothing more nothing less.
No meter is going to change my mind on that.
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Me neither.

The idea that people will, or even can, change their energy use, because of some adjustment to pricing, is typical of the sort of fantasies that the current government has become addicted to. :tumbleweed:
 
wyx087 said:
You need to manually read your "dumb" meter every half hourly to get the best tariff ;)
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You would also need your supplier to believe you. "Oh charging up that car? I totally did that when electricity was cheap. Sure, trust me."
AndrewFlannigan said:
Me neither.

The idea that people will, or even can, change their energy use, because of some adjustment to pricing, is typical of the sort of fantasies that the current government has become addicted to. :tumbleweed:
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I mean, I can only speak for me but I've totally done that. Right now, electricity is "free" for me all the time the sun is shining (in direct sun we are generating over 4KW - the batteries aren't here yet and I can't sell the excess back to Octopus until they fix me smart meter). Any high power device only goes on at the moment during daylight. So the dishwasher is free to run as is the pressure cooker, washing machine and kettle. I'd be amazed if anybody with an EV and no solar routinely charges it except at night.

Energy generation follows a flattish curve in the UK - consumption is extremely spiky. You can align the charts by incredibly expensive energy storage systems (e.g. Dinorwig) or you can financially incentivise people to change their habits. If that doesn't work, increase the price differential until it does.
 
JonathanRyan said:
If that doesn't work, increase the price differential until it does.
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...and who suffers during the "adjustment"?

That would be the people who can least afford the cost of the solar roof, the storage batteries or the electric cars. As usual, the "haves" neither understand nor care about the problems of the majority and are happy to boast about how "clever" they are to run their gadgets and cars for nothing while a large proportion of the British population rely on food banks to feed their kids.

:tumbleweed:
 
Cobra said:
As before, I use what I need when I need it.
Nothing more nothing less.
No meter is going to change my mind on that.
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Would the price of electricity change your mind on that?
Eg. compared to "dumb" meter, you can save a hundred pounds doing as you do now with a smart meter, but you are encouraged to use less during 5pm peak time, because hours around this peak time costs more. Avoid using high power stuff during peak means you can save hundreds of pounds a year.

Cobra said:
No one mentioned that, apart from you, seems like you are the one worried about it.
Or at least have looked into it.
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I like to cover all bases when I'm doing my research. It's important to be comprehensive on both upside and downsides.

For smart meter, there really isn't any downsides!

AndrewFlannigan said:
That would be the people who can least afford the cost of the solar roof, the storage batteries or the electric cars. As usual, the "haves" neither understand nor care about the problems of the majority and are happy to boast about how "clever" they are to run their gadgets and cars for nothing while a large proportion of the British population rely on food banks to feed their kids.
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If you use what you need when you need it, you are putting your demand onto the power supplying company, usually when there's already high demand. So you pay the same price for all your electricity, but paying more overall than the "haves" because it is your choice to use the centuries old method: get the supplying company to use expensive gas plants to supply you.

Only with innovation we can better utilise the limited resources. The cheapest resources usually are not possible to control (renewables), those who can capture cheapest resources will get the best deal. It's simplest form of supply and demand. But you got to remember the up front investment to go from "have-not" to "haves". I think given the choice and after so much forward looking explanations, many "have-nots" would become "haves" if they can fund a hobby like photography. In the absence of choice, one need to be smart about their energy use and choose a tariff that would save money. Those tariff are usually only available with smart meter and uses time-of-use variable pricing to encourages you to move high demands away from peak times.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
...and who suffers during the "adjustment"?

That would be the people who can least afford the cost of the solar roof, the storage batteries or the electric cars. As usual, the "haves" neither understand nor care about the problems of the majority and are happy to boast about how "clever" they are to run their gadgets and cars for nothing while a large proportion of the British population rely on food banks to feed their kids.

:tumbleweed:
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Ah, I was merely explaining how capitalism works, I didn't invent it. Nor am I particularly a fan of it. But since it's currently so it makes sense to do what "they" want me to.
 
wyx087 said:
Those tariff are usually only available with smart meter and uses time-of-use variable pricing to encourages you to move high demands away from peak times.
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Only because the companies choose to do things that way.

Still, I'm glad to see that your obsession with my backside has now subsided... :naughty:
 
JonathanRyan said:
Ah, I was merely explaining how capitalism works, I didn't invent it. Nor am I particularly a fan of it. But since it's currently so it makes sense to do what "they" want me to.
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I think you've missed my point.

You say you've installed a great deal of expensive equipment to achieve that aim. I was pointing out that a great many people in the UK don't have that option.
 
wyx087 said:
Would the price of electricity change your mind on that?
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I very much doubt it, Again, I use what I need when I need it. ie.
Reptile heating ( thermostatically controlled) 24/7/365 and lighting is on a time clock 12 hours on 12 hours off 24/7/365
Pond filtration is on 24/7/365
House lights are on when its dark ( but not always) but never in the daylight.
I'm cooking food, sometime with the electric oven, sometimes on the gas hob, around 5pm.
That's not about to change.
Heating, water and rads are via gas.
Washing machine is set to finish ( 2 or 3 times a week) for when I get up in the morning.
TV that is rarely on, I may watch the news while I'm eating tea, again circa 5pm.
Computer is on most of the day and sometime into the night.
That's a rough guide to how I work.
I see no extra savings are possible.
All that costs me £96 / month and is set to rise to £161 in August.


wyx087 said:
For smart meter, there really isn't any downsides!
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When they work correctly that is.
There are plenty of posts saying that they have failed / not compatible to whatever,
and therefore people are still submitting their own readings.
 
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AndrewFlannigan said:
I think you've missed my point.

You say you've installed a great deal of expensive equipment to achieve that aim. I was pointing out that a great many people in the UK don't have that option.
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Yes. It's becoming increasingly expensive to be poor. Somebody will be asking with a Terry Pratchett quote about boots soon.
 
Cobra said:
When they work correctly that is.
There are plenty of posts saying that they have failed / not compatible to whatever,
and therefore people are still submitting their own readings.
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That is usually the gen1 smart meters. Gen 2 and some Gen 1 are supposed to be compatible with switching suppliers and will continue to work.

Just like any thing, they work vast majority of the time. Only when they don't work, people speak up.


wyx087 said:
choose a tariff that would save money. Those tariff are usually only available with smart meter and uses time-of-use variable pricing to encourages you to move high demands away from peak times.
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AndrewFlannigan said:
Only because the companies choose to do things that way.
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It's because "dumb" meter cannot provide the granularity required for consumption data for the cheaper time-of-use tariffs. It's not the company choose to do it, it's because the "dumb" meters are no longer fit for purpose (not concise enough, doesn't report how much electricity has been consumed during a short time window)...... and we are back to my original point.
 
Been in this house around 27 years, never had a new meter installed, still working ok-touch Wood- did get a call from the supplier informing me my wife had made an appointment to have smart meters installed but unfortunately the installer needed to change the date, I told the caller I doubted that as she’d been dead 3 years, they replied “oh s***” and hung up, chancer methinks, and no, the wife is not dead but would not have made any arrangements.
Companies push ‘smart’ meters as they have targets set by the government to reach, tough guys, I don’t need one.
 
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camerassassin said:
I've just received this email from my Suppliers

<<
We appreciate you do not wish to have a Smart Meter, therefore we have two alternatives to this.

- We can install another traditional meter, however this will come at a cost of £120 (inc. VAT)

- We can install a smart meter but will not provide the communications hub. This is the element that makes the meter smart – without it there is no way that the meter can be smart. This means it will act just like a traditional meter and we will require you to submit manual readings as normal.

We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause, please let us know how you wish to proceed. >>

Now I am puzzled - if I want a new version of what I've got it will cost me £120 + VAT
BUT
Am I understanding correctly that if I say install the Smart Meter but not the communications hub it will be free ?[ They have previously stated that installation of a Smart Meter is at no cost to me ?
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If your supplier is you have to have a new meter (i.e. it is a legal or regulatory requirement) because the old one is no longer certified then the cost is down to them as it is the electricity supplier that owns the meter, not you. You are responsible for all wiring and equipment on the house side of the meter, so if you get your supplier to move the meter you may need to get an electrician to change the cabling to the consumer unit/fuse box.

I suspect that they are using the certification thing and charge for a non-smart meter to "persuade" you to have a smart meter.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
...and my comments still hold - nobody needs a smart meter to control their spending. :tumbleweed:
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That is unrelated to smart meter. It's marketed as such because that was what they were good for initially, but the end goal is for time-of-use tariff.

With time-of-use tariff, IF you can/willing to shift your demand, it will always work out cheaper. Because of a simple concept called supply and demand.

Nobody needs a smart meter just as nobody needs a mobile phone, but having one opens up a lot of possibilities in today's world. Therefore, why would anyone live in the past?
 
wyx087 said:
Therefore, why would anyone live in the past?
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I can only refer you to Chris's excellent answer...
Cobra said:
And as I laid out above, I use what I need :)
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With which, I will put you on ignore and allow you to find some other idiot with whom to argue. :naughty:
 
Bristolian said:
If your supplier is you have to have a new meter (i.e. it is a legal or regulatory requirement) because the old one is no longer certified then the cost is down to them as it is the electricity supplier that owns the meter, not you. You are responsible for all wiring and equipment on the house side of the meter, so if you get your supplier to move the meter you may need to get an electrician to change the cabling to the consumer unit/fuse box.

I suspect that they are using the certification thing and charge for a non-smart meter to "persuade" you to have a smart meter.
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I suppose I'll just have to put up with the position then. What does amuse me is that they'll give me a Smart Meter at no charge but it will cost me £120 for a replacement like-for-like :) . Then they say they'll install a Smart Meter without its fancy gubbins so I'll continue sending them in Readings monthly as I do at present. I wonder about my Gas meter - it's external and at the front of the house whereas the Leccy Meter is roughly in the middle of the house . If the smart Meter is bigger than my present one we may be a wee bitty short of room in the Cupboard for it.

How can I tell the age of my Leccy Meter anyway ?
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
With which, I will put you on ignore and allow you to find some other idiot with whom to argue. :naughty:
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:LOL:
I wasn't arguing, I was agreeing :p

BTW have you tried putting staff on ignore?
It'll delete your account.
:p


( I may have lied about the latter :D )
 
Cobra said:
:LOL:
I wasn't arguing, I was agreeing :p
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I know you were.

I was quoting you to explain why I was fed up with him. Sometimes, I can be too clever for my own good...:headbang:
 
wyx087 said:
Good, because we were going in circles after first few posts..... I'm tired of repeatedly explaining the benefits of smart meters (and other newer technologies).
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Indeed. I'm amazing some people here have this new fangled electricity at all :D

camerassassin said:
I suppose I'll just have to put up with the position then. What does amuse me is that they'll give me a Smart Meter at no charge but it will cost me £120 for a replacement like-for-like :) .
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Because they have lots of smart meters. They buy vast numbers and presumably get a great price. Smart meters save them money because reading is automated and accurate. They are allowing you to choose a different device - why wouldn't it cost more? As a compromise they will provide a dumbsmart meter which will cost them the same to install but more to read and are offering this at the same free price. Sounds like this would be a great option for you. They actually sound like they are being very accommodating.
 
wyx087 said:
Good, because we were going in circles after first few posts..... I'm tired of repeatedly explaining the benefits of smart meters (and other newer technologies).
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your right there mate old people just love the good old days why let technology improve there lives
let them just suffer a bit
 
Mr Bump said:
bear in mind this might be coming in soon , but only people with smart meters will be able to benefit :)

www.bbc.co.uk

Plan to cut energy bills if you avoid peak-time use

Some households could get discounts for using less energy at peak times under National Grid's scheme.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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Already discussed above.
How do you avoid peak times,?
People coming in from work and cooking / putting lights on / etc.
this is one of the peak times.


Putting the kettle on at half time during a soccer match ..
That ones easy ban soccer (y)
 
Cobra said:
How do you avoid peak times,?
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With difficulty.

Introducing time based charging will achieve nothing except to increase the wealth of the scum* who run the generating and retail companies.

* Super Carefull and Understanding Management :naughty:
 
Cobra said:
Already discussed above.
How do you avoid peak times,?
People coming in from work and cooking / putting lights on / etc.
this is one of the peak times.


Putting the kettle on at half time during a soccer match ..
That ones easy ban soccer (y)
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i think you will find if people are getting paid to avoid peak times they will find a way.
difference is you old people don't have the options
simples
 
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Mr Bump said:
you old people don't have the options
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Probably more options than you whippersnappers.
BUT if I want to eat / cook around 5pm when everyone else is I shall continue to do so.
And no meter will tell me otherwise.


AndrewFlannigan said:
You do talk an awful lot of rubbish. :rolleyes:
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And that's putting it politely.
 
boy you old people are funny
good luck with that
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
The problem here is working out what the words actually mean (or if they mean anything) :headbang:
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That's the trouble with these whippersnappers, they seem to talk a different language to normal people :D
 
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