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camerassassin

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I've just had an email from my Energy supplier telling me that
<<
We’re getting in touch to let you know that your electricity meter is no longer certified (we’ll explain this below) meaning that it’s time for us to replace it.​
This is a legal requirement, and something we need to do as soon as possible.​
>>

Now are they correct ? I'm honest I really don't think I can cope with all this new technology at my age . At present I submit my readings every month and I'm happy to go on doing that. I have Dual Power - Off Peak and Normal Rate supply.

Ay advice would be most gratefully received
 
camerassassin said:
I've just had an email from my Energy supplier telling me that
<<
We’re getting in touch to let you know that your electricity meter is no longer certified (we’ll explain this below) meaning that it’s time for us to replace it.​
This is a legal requirement, and something we need to do as soon as possible.​
>>

Now are they correct ? I'm honest I really don't think I can cope with all this new technology at my age . At present I submit my readings every month and I'm happy to go on doing that. I have Dual Power - Off Peak and Normal Rate supply.

Ay advice would be most gratefully received
Click to expand...
All I can say is that over many years we have had, I think, the electric meter changed twice and the gas meter once.

"They" keep pressing us to have a Smart Meter which we don't want........so the cynic in me says be aware in case they try (against your wishes) to make you accept a Smart not a normal meter.
 
That's exactly my point - until now I've refused a Smart Meter and so far that has been OK. I don't want one - I'm happy to continue to send in my readings - though I have to admit that I would like the position changed - I don't enjoy having to use a step ladder to read my meter ! I would appreciate a replacement meter of the variety I have at a lower level
 
camerassassin said:
That's exactly my point - until now I've refused a Smart Meter and so far that has been OK. I don't want one - I'm happy to continue to send in my readings - though I have to admit that I would like the position changed - I don't enjoy having to use a step ladder to read my meter ! I would appreciate a replacement meter of the variety I have at a lower level
Click to expand...
Hmmm! I can only surmise one should get in touch with them to discuss the repositioning and that you will only accept a normal meter. AFAIK they cannot oblige you to have a Smart one.....but don't recall where I read that.

All the best with making it right for you :)
 
Anyone else able to offer advice ?
 
yes they can force a change of meter IIRC the certification lasts 10 or 20 years depending on the meter. You can request a smart meter not operate smartly so you would still need to read it. Either way I doubt very much if it will be analogue dials - most likely be in a digital which if its anything like my work one you press a button to get the first rate use and press it again for the second rate one. I had to have mine replaced as it was over thirty years old when we moved in and the electriciy company taking over the supply clocked it and insisted it be replaced, thankfully pre smart meters but its a digital one.
 
I'm now waiting for them to contact me again - through Customer Services so I'll stick out for a 'normal' meter again

Thanks for the advice
 
FWIW ours is a digital normal meter and we take monthly readings. It is in its original place under the stairs.

PS the gas meter is there too and a b*****d to read......hands & knees, head and body in the cupboard with a torch!
 
My present meter is digital and in a cupboard on the wall - the actual meter is almost at ceiling height - hence I need a stepladder to read it ! The gas meter is outside - a blasted nuisance reading it when it's snowy but otherwise absolutely no problem
 
camerassassin said:
My present meter is digital and in a cupboard on the wall - the actual meter is almost at ceiling height - hence I need a stepladder to read it ! The gas meter is outside - a blasted nuisance reading it when it's snowy but otherwise absolutely no problem
Click to expand...

Is there some reason you don't want a smart meter? They work just like regular meters except you never have to read them so the main benefits are....
  1. No climbing ladders or opening meter cupboards in the snow
  2. No more estimated bills - you pay what you use
  3. It costs the electricity company less to read them - in theory they could pass this cost saving on to you in lower tariffs
I have a Smart gas meter and can see consumption by the half hour. My electricity meter is supposed to do this but wasn't installed properly. Somebody is coming round to fi it next week.
 
camerassassin said:
My present meter is digital and in a cupboard on the wall - the actual meter is almost at ceiling height - hence I need a stepladder to read it ! The gas meter is outside - a blasted nuisance reading it when it's snowy but otherwise absolutely no problem
Click to expand...

We have the same situation. The electricity meter is on the wall and I measured the height after reading your post, just out of curiosity. It's 2.9m. The gas meter is outside too.

I don't want a smart meter either, but every time we submit readings we're exhorted to book an appointment to install one before we miss out on the opportunity. It's starting to sound like touting tickets for the lottery ... :)
 
I have a smart meter in my house but the remote display unit doesnt show tariff accurately. EDF sent me a new remote display but that wont attach to the smartmeter as it already knows about the old remote display!!! Complaints to EDF result in an email with instructions on how to install the new display, that I have already used and told them it failed! I wonder sometimes if they can read or just choose to not read.

BTW. What is the issue with moving to a smart meter? What disadvantages are there? I might be missing something that I should be aware of.
 
jknights said:
I have a smart meter in my house but the remote display unit doesnt show tariff accurately. EDF sent me a new remote display but that wont attach to the smartmeter as it already knows about the old remote display!!! Complaints to EDF result in an email with instructions on how to install the new display, that I have already used and told them it failed! I wonder sometimes if they can read or just choose to not read.

BTW. What is the issue with moving to a smart meter? What disadvantages are there? I might be missing something that I should be aware of.
Click to expand...
It's stories like yours that has put me off Smart Meters - there are just too many like that.

I'm with Andrew - "" it's always a mistake to fix what ain't broke.""
 
camerassassin said:
It's stories like yours that has put me off Smart Meters - there are just too many like that.

I'm with Andrew - "" it's always a mistake to fix what ain't broke.""
Click to expand...

I agree. I've also read that you can't revert to the 'old' meters if you decide that getting a smart meter was a mistake, but I don't know if that's correct.
 
jknights said:
BTW. What is the issue with moving to a smart meter? What disadvantages are there? I might be missing something that I should be aware of.
Click to expand...
There were problems with the earliest meters over several years so that you could not easily change to another supplier. For this reason Which? recommended not having one fitted. However, I think that the latest versions are now OK. I can see no advantage for me so have not bothered though I am regularly pressed by my supplier.

Dave
 
I've just received this email from my Suppliers

<<
We appreciate you do not wish to have a Smart Meter, therefore we have two alternatives to this.

- We can install another traditional meter, however this will come at a cost of £120 (inc. VAT)

- We can install a smart meter but will not provide the communications hub. This is the element that makes the meter smart – without it there is no way that the meter can be smart. This means it will act just like a traditional meter and we will require you to submit manual readings as normal.

We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause, please let us know how you wish to proceed. >>

Now I am puzzled - if I want a new version of what I've got it will cost me £120 + VAT
BUT
Am I understanding correctly that if I say install the Smart Meter but not the communications hub it will be free ?[ They have previously stated that installation of a Smart Meter is at no cost to me ?
 
camerassassin said:
I've just received this email from my Suppliers

<<
We appreciate you do not wish to have a Smart Meter, therefore we have two alternatives to this.

- We can install another traditional meter, however this will come at a cost of £120 (inc. VAT)

- We can install a smart meter but will not provide the communications hub. This is the element that makes the meter smart – without it there is no way that the meter can be smart. This means it will act just like a traditional meter and we will require you to submit manual readings as normal.

We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause, please let us know how you wish to proceed. >>

Now I am puzzled - if I want a new version of what I've got it will cost me £120 + VAT
BUT
Am I understanding correctly that if I say install the Smart Meter but not the communications hub it will be free ?[ They have previously stated that installation of a Smart Meter is at no cost to me ?
Click to expand...
I imagine they are slowly phasing out all the old style meters therefore a) it costs more for them to buy them and b) it’s a more complicated install (or they simply don’t have as many trained staff to do the job).

If you’re convinced you don’t want a smart meter then go for the dumbed down version. Their email doesn’t mention any cost to you, whereas having the old analogue one specifically does, so I take from that that’s it’s free.

Personally I don’t get all the anti smart meter bias. We had two already installed at the house when we bought it a couple of years back. They work fine, they provide accurate readings so we don’t get estimated bills, the monitor is useful to see what you’re using, although it doesn’t stop me putting the kettle on. What’s not to like? It’s not as if they provide secret cctv coverage of your house to the government or let aliens use them as a homing beacon.
 
I've had something similar a few years ago, around 2017 give or take a year. Meters have a lifespan of 10 years, after which you are required to change it. Someone came and did a direct replacement of the meters, it was Economy 7 dual tariff electric meter, replaced with a new one that's same E7 "dumb" meter.

At the time, I think they were a gamble getting gen 1 or gen 2 smart meters. I asked about smart meter and they said they will only replace like-for-like in this instance. Getting smart meter installed is a different process. Sorry to hear it is different now in your case.


But I wanted gen 2 meter that guarantees switching supplier is no problem, so waited until Bulb called me last year (due to congested meter cupboard from all extra EV/solar installs I need to make sure if they refused install at appointment, I'm not on the hook to pay). Boy I'm glad I got smart meter now! Everyone is paying ~30p/kWh, I can pay 7.5p/kWh off-peak and small amount of 35p/kWh day time thanks to solar. This Octopus Go tariff is locked in for 1 year, meaning come September when other people pay over 35p all the time, vast majority of my electricity use is still at 7.5p/kWh. When my other EV comes, I'd be looking to switch to Octopus Intelligent tariff (6 hours off-peak, hand over control of overnight EV charging to them, instead of manual scheduled, end result is the same: fully charged car in the morning).

Old "dumb" meters are broken in the sense they never reflect the varying wholesale price. "Smart" meter opens a whole world of possibilities that would benefit the user if the user can be flexible about their electricity uses. (eg. EV, home battery, solar panels or just timed appliances). Octopus Agile offers negative pricing, meaning you can get paid to charge your EV when there's excess renewables on the grid.
 
wyx087 said:
Old "dumb" meters are broken in the sense they never reflect the varying wholesale price.
Click to expand...
I think that's a rather special use of the word "broken".

All a consumer meter needs to do is tell you the number of units that you have consumed. It's up to your retailer to adjust your bill to give you the best price per unit, in order that they retain your custom. It's up to you to move to a different retailer if they fail to give you the best price and/or service.

So far as I can see, the smart meter thing is another daft government idea, foisted on us by threatening the retailers with fines if they don't reach some arbitrary target for installations. British Gas, EDF and First Utility are reported to be attempting to mitigate those fines by charging customers who don't change their meters up to £111 more per year, by not offering their best deals to such customers: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-5653137/A-111-penalty-refuse-smart-meter.html

If you like the idea of a smart meter, that's good. Refusing the thing shouldn't be bad, in my opinion.
 
Last edited:
AndrewFlannigan said:
I think that's a rather special use of the word "broken".

All a consumer meter needs to do is tell you the number of units that you have consumed. It's up to your retailer to adjust your bill to give you the best price per unit, in order that they retain your custom. It's up to you to move to a different retailer if they fail to give you the best price and/or service.

So far as I can see, the smart meter thing is another daft government idea, foisted on us by threatening the retailers with fines if they don't reach some arbitrary target for installations. British Gas, EDF and First Utility are reported to be attempting to mitigate those fines by charging customers who don't change their meters up to £111 more per year, by not offering their best deals to such customers: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-5653137/A-111-penalty-refuse-smart-meter.html

If you like the idea of a smart meter, that's good. Refusing the thing shouldn't be bad, in my opinion.
Click to expand...
The article that you link to is from 2018.......I wonder how accurate & relevent it is to the current situation in 2022 especially in regard to Smart Meter only tariffs???

I might imagine if it was that situation there would have been a bigger furore about smart meters and it's tariff by now :thinking:
 
Box Brownie said:
I might imagine if it was that situation there would have been a bigger furore about smart meters and it's tariff by now :thinking:
Click to expand...
There's been so many other problems since then that it's been crowded out of the mainstream. Whether the controversy has gone for good is something, I for one, wouldn't care to speculate on.
 
Box Brownie said:
The article that you link to is from 2018.......I wonder how accurate & relevent it is to the current situation in 2022 especially in regard to Smart Meter only tariffs???

I might imagine if it was that situation there would have been a bigger furore about smart meters and it's tariff by now :thinking:
Click to expand...
My fixed term contract finished recently and my provider only gives fixed terms to customers who have smart meters now.
I did look on the comparison sites and it seems many are now doing this.
 
tracybradbury said:
My fixed term contract finished recently and my provider only gives fixed terms to customers who have smart meters now.
Click to expand...
EDF have stopped pestering me to have smart meters fitted, after several times explaining that when they are fail proof, I'll have one.
Instead they have switched to telling me I need one of these damned heat pumps.

To the OP, both my meters have been changed within the last 10 years, it was painless.
Thankfully this was pre the government fining the suppliers that didn't meet their targets for smart meter installations,
so it was a straight swap..
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
All a consumer meter needs to do is tell you the number of units that you have consumed.
Click to expand...
No, that's not concise enough. Meter need to be able to identify how much electricity has been consumed during a time window.

It's like "dumb" Economy 7 meter, but in order for energy company to offer good tariff, they need higher resolution in terms of energy consumed plotted against time. Currently half hourly is used.

Things move with technology. You cannot say something isn't broken because it have remained constant. Good example today is tumble dryers, when it's time to fit a new one, you'd be stupid to replace like-for-like when heat pump ones are available and costs almost half the price to dry the same load.


FWIW, I switched from Bulb, supplier who got contractors to fit my smart meter, to Octopus without any problem. My smart meter switched to Octopus within 24 hours, I was able to sign up to their smart tariff on my switch day.
 
wyx087 said:
No, that's not concise enough. Meter need to be able to identify how much electricity has been consumed during a time window.
Click to expand...
Every meter does that - if you have enough sense to read the meter on a daily basis (which I do). :naughty:
 
wyx087 said:
No, that's not concise enough. Meter need to be able to identify how much electricity has been consumed during a time window.
Click to expand...
Why? I use what I need, nothing more nothing less, and no meter will tell me what I don't need to know.

wyx087 said:
Good example today is tumble dryers,
Click to expand...
And I consider them energy guzzlers.
Wind power and solar power dries my washing, if that isn't available then the internal temperature takes over.
It may take a couple of days during the winter, but it saves a fortune on wasted energy.
 
I have just changed my fixed tarrif with EDF, who said this was for smart meters only (mine is NOT smart), but just below they said that if you don't want a smart meter, just tell us,

Relevant part of contract:-

"Smart meters automatically send us your meter
readings. It is your choice whether or not you would
like to have a Smart meter installed at your property.
By signing up to this tariff you agree to having a
Smart meter fitted when we’re installing them in
your area, and to us contacting you to ask you to
book an appointment for its installation. However, if
you do not wish to have a Smart meter installed you
may, at any time, inform us that you are opting out
of having a Smart meter."

Fair enough, I thought.
 
Cobra said:
Why? I use what I need, nothing more nothing less, and no meter will tell me what I don't need to know.
Click to expand...
It's about time-of-use. Using electricity at 11am have different carbon intensity and cost compared to using same electricity at 5pm. With this information, it would allow the national grid transition to less expensive, less carbon intensive and energy sources that isn't funding wars.

Carbon Intensity

National Energy System Operator have developed a Regional Carbon Intensity forecast for the GB electricity system.
carbonintensity.org.uk carbonintensity.org.uk

For individual on a consumer level, it opens up possibility for time-of-use tariff. This then gives the consumers who are able to be flexible with their usage the option to consume at a much lower price. For example 7,5p/kWh rather than current price-cap of ~30p/kWh.

Before you say this info can be used to spy on people. It's impossible. The half-hourly meter reading can only tell large swings such as charging an EV. To determin if you are using any home appliances, you need consumption data down to minutes.

I think the day 1 marketing for smart meter got it wrong. Knowing how much one is consuming isn't very useful. I go over today's budget, whoopty doo. But what IS useful is what this finer level of consumption data allows much better energy generation and utilisation at all levels of the overall system. To the consumer, it would be cheaper tariffs.


Cobra said:
And I consider them energy guzzlers.
Click to expand...
So do I, but the point of example is that newer technology usually has many advantages. So if one were to replace the item. It would be irrational to use "why fix something isn't broken" as reasoning and get the same one with outdated tech.


---

Re thread:
I came across this Ofgem page about smart meters:

Get a smart meter

Learn about the benefits of smart meters and your rights when offered one.
www.ofgem.gov.uk www.ofgem.gov.uk

Do I have to have a smart meter?​

Unless there is a good reason not to, suppliers must install a smart meter if they are:

  • replacing a meter
  • installing a meter for the first time, such as in a new property.
You can choose not to accept an offer to have a smart meter fitted. You can also request to have one at a later date without being charged. Choosing not to have a smart meter might mean you have a limited choice of energy tariffs. Some smart tariffs could be cheaper
Click to expand...
 
wyx087 said:
It's about time-of-use. Using electricity at 11am have different carbon intensity and cost compared to using same electricity at 5pm. With this information, it would allow the national grid transition to less expensive, less carbon intensive and energy sources that isn't funding wars.
Click to expand...
That is all very interesting, but I and I'm sure that most people are not anal about the use of their utilities.
Now, if there was an offer of a large decrease in prices I'm sure that would be a much bigger incentive to have them.
Everything you have mentioned seems to be saving the supplier money, rather than the customer.

And as above I am fully aware that I don't have to have a smart meter fitted although the emails I have been receiving the last 2 years or so
It is implied that its a legal requirement.
And yet Its the company that gets fined if they don't meet their target of instalations.


whiteflyer said:
If this does happen lets watch the anti-smart meter gang back peddle at speed.
Click to expand...
IF this does happen I'll happily back peddle, but being sceptical, once everyone is on a smart meter, I suspect the prices will slowly rise back up.

However what are peak times? Breakfast time, lunch time and evening time? ( TV cooking etc)
For a lot of people it will be impossible to reduce the amount of use at those times.
All it will do is shift the peak times, therefore creating other "peak times"
 
It's nothing new really, I remember at my last home being on economy 7, a cheap rate for nighttime use. This just looks a more refined look at when is cheap rate.
 
Take a look at carbon intensity website I posted. High carbon intensity means more reliant on peaker plants, which are expensive fossil fuel powered plants. Low carbon intensity means cheap renewable or low demand. So avoid putting high demand during high carbon intensity is good for planet and also good for wallet.

As said, same idea as E7 tariff, just a lot more flexible and smart ;)

Cobra said:
Everything you have mentioned seems to be saving the supplier money, rather than the customer.
Click to expand...
How does supplier giving you the option to pay 7.5p/kWh vs 30p/kWh mean saving the supplier money?
Please go and find any fixed deal that is less than 35p/kWh, it's non existent with the up coming September energy price cap rise.
Octopus Go is smart meter only tariff that offers 7.5p/kWh during 0:30-4:30 and 35p/kWh for other hours, fixed for 1 year. I honestly cannot see how this will save Octopus any money come September. I would love to be enlightened though.

Look, I'm not forcing smart meter down your throat as energy companies may seem to be doing. I'm only pointing out why we need to transition to them........ and why old "dumb" meters are no longer adequate.

Cobra said:
IF this does happen I'll happily back peddle, but being sceptical, once everyone is on a smart meter, I suspect the prices will slowly rise back up.
Click to expand...
For early adopter of smart meters, British Gas used to offer free weekends:
www.bbc.co.uk

British Gas offers free electricity at weekends

British Gas is to offer free electricity for eight hours at weekends to two million customers who have smart meters installed.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
Octopus Agile had regular negative pricing before things went crazy. Still do, but very rarely now.
octopus.energy

Agile Octopus | Half-hourly UK Wholesale Price Tracker | Octopus Energy

Track your electricity costs with rates that change every 30 minutes, tied to UK energy wholesale prices. Agile puts you in full control.
octopus.energy octopus.energy

Overall energy price across the industry is monitored by Ofgem. You can always easily switch to cheap deals.
 
Cobra said:
I'm sure that most people are not anal about the use of their utilities.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

However, as is so often the case, the minority who are, turn out to also be vocal about it. In extreme cases, they will come to your home and superglue themselves to your non-smart meter! :naughty:
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Yes: the meters already installed here work just fine and it's always a mistake to fix what ain't broke... :naughty:

View attachment 358723
Click to expand...
camerassassin said:
I've just had an email from my Energy supplier telling me that
<<
We’re getting in touch to let you know that your electricity meter is no longer certified (we’ll explain this below) meaning that it’s time for us to replace it.​
This is a legal requirement, and something we need to do as soon as possible.​
>>

Now are they correct ? I'm honest I really don't think I can cope with all this new technology at my age . At present I submit my readings every month and I'm happy to go on doing that. I have Dual Power - Off Peak and Normal Rate supply.

Ay advice would be most gratefully received
Click to expand...

I mean, it sounds like it is broke.
 
If its any help.
A few weeks ago our gas meter stopped working and cut off the gas supply.
I spoke to Scottish Power ( our supplier) and they arranged for a new meter to be fitted .
From memory I think it was by Seimens, I asked the chap who fitted it if it was a smart meter he said it was but it was not commissioned as that was up to SP.
I asked SP about this and they said eventually it would be commissioned but as the software was still in beta they could not say when.
So atm its a dumb smart meter and i am quite happy with that.
A word of caution when your meter is replaced take the old reading and a photo of the old meter in place showing the reading and the serial number, because the display was U/S on my gas meter I had quite a job getting SP to accept a new reading.
 
Last year, just before the prices started going up, Eon Next contacted me to tell me what my new monthly payment would be,
then started talking about going on a fixed rate, which was slightly cheaper then I was paying,
One of the conditions was that I have a Smart Meter installed and an appointment was made.
A week before this was due to happen I had another message saying that I couldn't have one as the supply didn't support
it :thinking:
Seems I'm not the only one in this block, and yet others have them, oh well never really wanted one
 
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