Using studio strobes for outdoor group?

[wonderer]

Hi all

I have a shoot in a couple of days and have been doing a lot of research regarding it and thought I would ask you knowledgeable lot

I play around in my little home studio a lot but will be photographing a group of about 15 people,8 adults, 7 kids outdoors in a family garden which I have never done. It is meant to be a nice enough day so my main challenge hopefully will be fill flash for the faces. Problem is I have never used flash outdoors before and especially not my studio strobes. I have no idea regarding power needed or placement. From my research I have gathered that I may as well leave my two large softboxes and umbrellas at home and use bare flash, would this be agreeable? I will hopefully be able to use a sofa placed outside and have them all on or around that so it should only need two rows of people.

The lighting I have is two Interfit EX400 with wireless triggers and I also have a SB700 speedlight and stand if this helps. So any recommendations would be fantastic, two strobes either side of the family near them, one strobe next to the camera if front of them and just adjust lighting power as needed? If it makes a difference I would love to aim for a nice background blur on the images.

I am so far out of my comfort zone I cant even see my comfort zone

Thanks

Rich

 

[realspeed]

Why not set it up in your garden or somewhere first with 2+ targets apart from each other to see the coverage your setup includes. You can then move the targets and lighting until your satisfied with the area the flash covers. Then you will know how to group the people on the day to get them within that area

 

[meonshore]

Pray for a bright overcast day..... Why you would even consider learning a new technique on a 15 person portrait shoot I can't begin to understand - especially if this is a paid session ?

Personally I'd use two lights at the edge feathered to the centre as close as you can to the subjects whilst keeping them out of the frame, and bounce into brollies to get some diffusion rather than bare bulb or soft boxes (likely to catch more wind). You'll need to sort out your H&S risks associated with power cables, the outdoors, possible wet areas and wind. Your lights should be PAT tested given this situation.

The DOF to get a blurred background you'll have to sort out based on the power of the lights, your lenses, and the camera to subject and subject to background ratio.

 

[wonderer]

Thank you for the replies. Its not a paid shoot, just a favour for a friend so they do not have massive expectations or anything but at the same time I naturally want to get the best images I can. Thought it would be great experience. I was under the impression that using enough space between the bare lights and the subject would create enough diffusion in itself? Should lights be positioned slightly above the subjects ala studio or head height?

Thanks again

 

[meonshore]

I was under the impression that using enough space between the bare lights and the subject would create enough diffusion in itself?

What exactly were you expecting to diffuse the lights with then - nitrogen or oxygen atoms or carbon dioxide molecules ? You need to either push it through some diffusion material (diffusion paper, or something like a shoot-through brolly or softbox) or bounce it to create a larger light source.

Should lights be positioned slightly above the subjects ala studio or head height?

Depends on how you want to light the subjects, and where you want to push shadows if you can't eliminate them with fall-off naturally. That is a creative decision.

 

[wonderer]

What exactly were you expecting to diffuse the lights with then - nitrogen or oxygen atoms or carbon dioxide molecules ? You need to either push it through some diffusion material (diffusion paper, or something like a shoot-through brolly or softbox) or bounce it to create a larger light source.

Well this is my question, do I NEED to diffuse the light? Bare flash can be used to fill shadows using a speedlight, is the priciple not the same just on a larger scale? The reason being I would prefer to keep lighting as simple as possible and closer to myself than the guests as a number of children will be present. I was thinking (hoping) one or two strobes either side of camera at 45 degree angles toward the group would be preferable if possible. I would probably be around 10 foot from the group.

 

[meonshore]

Your creative decision.

You can of course light subjects with a bare bulb.

It really depends on the quality of light you want to layer onto your subjects and also how the arrangement of subjects interacts with the light as to how much diffusion you require, and how close you want the lights to be. It also depends on the subject how well it/they will take a bare bulb/direct flash or if they require a more subtle approach - again depending on what look you are going for.

 

[cosmix3]

Have to agree with Mike, you will want to diffuse the light rather than bare bulb, will be much more pleasing to be honest and should help the light wrap better. if your brollies are white reflective would be tempted to use them. With your lights they are just going to fill the shadows as will not over power the sun at it brightest. as for metering would meter for the background then once happy with that introduce the flash to fill in the shadows.

Would also say get outside before the shoot and have a practice, will make it allot easier on the day if you have an idea of what your kit can do.

 

[Phil V]

Just forget the lights, arrange your subjects in 'open shade', you'll have enough issues with the cat herding without being troubled by lighting.

Mixing flash and daylight on this scale is a task you have neither the gear or experience to nail effectively.

I'll bet there are 100 wedding photographers active on this site, who all regularly shoot groups of that size without lighting, and if they were using lighting it'd be because they were forced inside. Basically, none of us would 'choose' to do what you're suggesting.

However if I really did want to use 2x400w studio strobes as fill, I'd place them behind and above the camera, pointed out at an angle that effectively makes them one large light source from the camera position, set about 1/2 stop less than the ambient, which might require an ND filter on your lens (maybe 3 stops) to get the shutter speed down.

But frankly, I'd have to be really confident to try this on people who don't know me, your biggest problem for this portrait is getting everyone grouped and comfortable, the last thing I'd want to be doing is arsing around with meter readings to get 100% lighting coverage on 25% engaged subjects! I'd aim for 75% perfect lighting on 90% engaged subjects.

But it's your call

 

[meonshore]

Just forget the lights, arrange your subjects in 'open shade', you'll have enough issues with the cat herding without being troubled by lighting.

Always my preferred means of shooting portraits.

But I was looking at the OP's description of a back garden and considering that it might be limited in aspects and therefore any open shade to work with.....

 

[wonderer]

Thank you all for your responses, I apreciate it. The family have asked if I can do today as they will all be together. To make things worse they need me at 11am and it is meant to be sun sun sun! Ha, oh well, wish me luck! I will post an image or two later to see what you think!

 

[Phil V]

Always my preferred means of shooting portraits.

But I was looking at the OP's description of a back garden and considering that it might be limited in aspects and therefore any open shade to work with.....

Yeah, but as I've said before, what makes us 'better' isn't the gear it's the confidence to put people in the right place.

 

[Phil V]

Thank you all for your responses, I apreciate it. The family have asked if I can do today as they will all be together. To make things worse they need me at 11am and it is meant to be sun sun sun! Ha, oh well, wish me luck! I will post an image or two later to see what you think!

Good luck!

 

[meonshore]

Yeah, but as I've said before, what makes us 'better' isn't the gear it's the confidence to put people in the right place.

Trouble is if you have allowed someone to dictate a location, date and time, you are not familiar with the location and aspect and any areas of shade then you are unlikely to have the confidence to put them in the *right* place - combine that with a lack of technical skill and well....... you can only hope their posing/arrangement is completely up to scratch.

I'm looking forward to seeing the OP's results either way it gets shot.