Using studio flash heads and speedlights

[simon ess]

Hi folks

firstly, my apologies if this has been asked before.

I'm considering getting my first studio flash heads.

My concerns are value for money, reliability and flexibility. I have a total budget of about £600 for everything.

I already have a Nikon SB600, a huge softbox on a stand and a couple of small softboxes.

I've been considering getting 2 Lencarta smart flash with a couple of modifiers and another SB600.

I figure this would meet all my small studio needs and give me the flexibility of 2 speedlights for portable purposes.

My main question is, what do I need to operate the smart flashes and the speedlights together? I'm sure it can be done, but I'm not sure how.

Secondly, I'm very open to other suggestions.

I intend to do mainly more family portraits and some still life work.

Thanks very much.

 

[domino1999]

My main question is, what do I need to operate the smart flashes and the speedlights together? I'm sure it can be done, but I'm not sure how.

Secondly, I'm very open to other suggestions.

Wireless triggers are one way to go. If you're not concerned about TTL, then cheap triggers like the RF-602/603s will do the job. I use 4 RF-603 tranceivers; 1 plugged into my Lencarta Ultrapro 300, 1 on my 430EX, 1 on my Yonguio 565 and 1 on the camera. Of course, with this arrangement you'll have to set the speedlites and studio flash manually.

Darren

 

[HoppyUK]

Wireless triggers are one way to go. If you're not concerned about TTL, then cheap triggers like the RF-602/603s will do the job. I use 4 RF-603 tranceivers; 1 plugged into my Lencarta Ultrapro 300, 1 on my 430EX, 1 on my Yonguio 565 and 1 on the camera. Of course, with this arrangement you'll have to set the speedlites and studio flash manually.

Darren

^^^ This.

Studio heads and hot-shoe guns play well together. Cheap and easy with radio triggers these days

 

[simon ess]

Thanks fellas - much appreciated.

So, just to be clear, and apologies for being dim, I would need 5 triggers in total - one for each smart flash, one for each speedlight and one for the camera?

Iwouldn't need any cables or anything, and I wouldn't need to buy any Lencarta triggers if I went for the RF603?

Cheers

 

[HoppyUK]

Thanks fellas - much appreciated.

So, just to be clear, and apologies for being dim, I would need 5 triggers in total - one for each smart flash, one for each speedlight and one for the camera?

Iwouldn't need any cables or anything, and I wouldn't need to buy any Lencarta triggers if I went for the RF603?

Cheers

Not quite.

You need one transmitter on the camera and a receiver for each flash unit.

Receivers connect via hot-shoe contacts so for the Lencarta you will need a cable and jack plug/apapter. Some triggers come with those, or they cost a few pounds extra.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Thanks fellas - much appreciated.

So, just to be clear, and apologies for being dim, I would need 5 triggers in total - one for each smart flash, one for each speedlight and one for the camera?

Iwouldn't need any cables or anything, and I wouldn't need to buy any Lencarta triggers if I went for the RF603?

Cheers

Need no, want maybe...
As long as your speedlights are not sending a pre-flash then they will trigger your SmartFlash heads, so the SmartFlash heads don't actually need their own trigger - but with low powered flashes there can be some situations where this isn't 100% reliable, so you might want to buy at least one more RF603 - but you wouldn't want to buy the Lencarta triggers in this situation, you would want extra Receivers that are the same as the other receivers. Another situation where you might want a receiver for each head is where other people are taking flash photos and setting off your lights.

 

[simon ess]

Thanks very much for your input Garry.

So, if I'm reading you right, and once again I'm sorry if these are tediously dumb questions -

Given that the Smartflashes would only be used in my little studio space, and given that I can control the speedlights remotely from my camera in CMDR mode, if I set the speedlights to manual so they don't produce a pre-flash (I think they wouldn't anyway), I don't need any triggers at all?

Or am I just not getting it

 

[Garry Edwards]

Yes, that's about it. In a small room, with light bouncing off of what is probably a white ceiling, you can manage without radio triggers

 

[simon ess]

Brilliant - thanks very much indeed

I can see I might want, or even need, a trigger further down the line but, at this stage, I just need to get up and running.

 

[HoppyUK]

Not sure if that will work Garry.

Nikons may be different, but with Canon if the pop-up is in manual master/commander mode, it will send a pre-flash to set the power level of the remotes.

The only way to delete the pre-flash is in manual manual mode, but that means the pop-up has to fire for the actual exposure and will influence the image.

 

[simon ess]

I have an IR screen that prevents any output from the pop-up influencing the scene. I would think that should solve the issue. I hope.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Not sure if that will work Garry.

Nikons may be different, but with Canon if the pop-up is in manual master/commander mode, it will send a pre-flash to set the power level of the remotes.

The only way to delete the pre-flash is in manual manual mode, but that means the pop-up has to fire for the actual exposure and will influence the image.

You're right as far as Canon go, and of course I'm a Nikon user...
But the OP is also a Nikon user judging by the fact that he has mentioned a SB-600, and also he he is talking about triggering the SB-600's via radio triggers, not via a pop up flash, hence my reply.

 

[simon ess]

Whoah - hang on. I said,

given that I can control the speedlights remotely from my camera in CMDR mode,

Maybe that's not too clear, but to me that indicates using the pop-up in CMDR mode.

The question of using triggers was superceded by the suggestion that the speed lights would trigger the smartflashes.

Apologies if my questions are not clear - can I use the pop-up in CMDR mode, maybe with the IR screen, or do I need a trigger on the hotshoe?

Thanks for all your input. I'm just trying to get it clear in my mind.

 

[HoppyUK]

I have an IR screen that prevents any output from the pop-up influencing the scene. I would think that should solve the issue. I hope.

Whoah - hang on. I said,



Maybe that's not too clear, but to me that indicates using the pop-up in CMDR mode.

The question of using triggers was superceded by the suggestion that the speed lights would trigger the smartflashes.

Apologies if my questions are not clear - can I use the pop-up in CMDR mode, maybe with the IR screen, or do I need a trigger on the hotshoe?

Thanks for all your input. I'm just trying to get it clear in my mind.

In commander mode, the pop-up has to issue a pre-flash. And if it's in strictly manual mode (no pre-flash) it will not fire the hot-shoe remotes, unless they have ordinary optical slaves as well. And it will influnece the exposure (IR screen would fix that).

With the proviso that I'm not 100% certain about Nikon, I think you need a radio transmitter and receiver units for the hot-shoe guns. Then the studio heads will fire off their own optical slaves.

 

[Steve T]

If you buy the Rf603 triggers make sure you are happy with the way that they mount to your light stand with a flash on them. They don't have a screw clamp themselves and will come adrift unless you cobble something together or have a clamping shoe that actualy holds them safe. Also, the on off switch is in the worst place possible and you can't reach it with a flash attached, they work, but are a poor design.

 

[JonathanRyan]

Forget the IR shield (that's irrelevant since you'll be in manual) and forget the fact that manual flash on a Nikon doesn't use a pre flash (that's irrelevant because of the points below).

CLS uses up to 8 "pre" flashes to control the remote flashes. There's a conversation between camera and flashguns using visible light. In remote manual mode it uses fewer but it's still more than 0.

If you use the pop up in commander mode then the controller flashes will trip the smart flash and they won't recycle in time. It will look to the eye like everything works but you will effectively get no light from the smart smartflashes.

There's a workaround on an SB800 using SU-4 mode but for no obvious reason the SB600 can't do this.

You need either a radio receiver for the SB600 or a dumb slave cell for it. (Then you could set minimum power manual on the pop up and slave everything else.)

Simplest method is an RF602* for each speedlight and set the Smartflash to slave. You'll need a receiver per SB600. This is entirely Nikon's fault That's one trigger for the camera and one receiver per SB600. There may be some cheaper methods but they will be more hassle and you should get a set of triggers for < £40.

* The RF603 should work too but I've never used it and some people who have seem not to like it. Then you'd need a minimum of 3 RF 603s since they are transceivers.