Using a flash meter outdoors nightmare

philthejuggler

philthejuggler

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Hi all

I have recently been practising with my Lencarta Safari kit for outdoor shoots.

My (Sekonic 308) flashmeter only picks up the flash outdoors in brighter light if it is quite strong (f/5.6 +) at the subject.

Sometimes I'm aiming for lower apertures for the flash and I'm currently guessing / chimping to get to right exposure.

Is the meter poor, or is there a better technique?

Thanks

Phil
 
philthejuggler said:
Hi all

I have recently been practising with my Lencarta Safari kit for outdoor shoots.

My (Sekonic 308) flashmeter only picks up the flash outdoors in brighter light if it is quite strong (f/5.6 +) at the subject.

Sometimes I'm aiming for lower apertures for the flash and I'm currently guessing / chimping to get to right exposure.

Is the meter poor, or is there a better technique?

Thanks

Phil
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I know I'm going to get slammed for this but I don't use a meter outdoors. I use a combination of highlight warnings and histogram, but to honest the histogram isn't as useful imo.

Now I know people are going to say what your looking at is a jpg, but its quick and the highlight warning tells me which part of the scene is overexposed. Besides there's more latitude in the raw file and I like to ETTR a little. With on camera control of flash power I can get my exposure and ratios nailed in a few seconds. This is much quicker for me if I'm working without assistants and even if I am in these situations they are usually holding the light(s) making us more mobile than using light stands.

If I was shooting film sure a meter is the way to go, but with digital we know we've nailed the shot so why not.

And I'm not saying there is anything wrong with using a meter, but it doesn't mean your not a 'proper' photographer if you choose not to ;)
 
philthejuggler said:
Hi all

I have recently been practising with my Lencarta Safari kit for outdoor shoots.

My (Sekonic 308) flashmeter only picks up the flash outdoors in brighter light if it is quite strong (f/5.6 +) at the subject.

Sometimes I'm aiming for lower apertures for the flash and I'm currently guessing / chimping to get to right exposure.

Is the meter poor, or is there a better technique?

Thanks

Phil
Click to expand...

See handbook, page 17 ;) Basically, you need to use a cord to help the meter distinguish between flash and ambient light when they are of a similar brightness.

Sounds handy doesn't it. They're great these hand meter things :D

Obviously you can't use E-TTL with that ringflash, so just chimp it. I would anyway. What are you going to do when you've metered it all lovely and it looks over/under, which it quite likely will? Fill-flash ratios are hard to predict in practise, depending on the subject, the conditions, and the result you're after.

Or you could always use the guide number ;) (That was a joke BTW.)
 
I'm guessing that what you're trying to do is to overwhelm the sun with the flash, in which case you simply increase the power of the Safari until you have the effect you want, set the exposure to suit the lighting on the subject and end up with an underexposed background, as in these shots by Michael Sewell (I especially like the ones near the end).

The meter will indicate this perfectly well as long as the difference isn't too subtle, but I agree with the others that, for these type of shots, you can in fact manage without the meter - what matters here is the visual effect, not the measurable difference in light levels.
 
Thanks for all the comments!

HoppyUK said:
See handbook, page 17 ;) Basically, you need to use a cord to help the meter distinguish between flash and ambient light when they are of a similar brightness.

Sounds handy doesn't it. They're great these hand meter things :D

Obviously you can't use E-TTL with that ringflash, so just chimp it. I would anyway. What are you going to do when you've metered it all lovely and it looks over/under, which it quite likely will? Fill-flash ratios are hard to predict in practise, depending on the subject, the conditions, and the result you're after.

Or you could always use the guide number ;) (That was a joke BTW.)
Click to expand...

Hmm - the sync socket on my cord is perfectly designed to not quite fit in the Sekonic! I'll try with the wireless sync.

Garry Edwards said:
I'm guessing that what you're trying to do is to overwhelm the sun with the flash, in which case you simply increase the power of the Safari until you have the effect you want, set the exposure to suit the lighting on the subject and end up with an underexposed background, as in these shots by Michael Sewell (I especially like the ones near the end).

The meter will indicate this perfectly well as long as the difference isn't too subtle, but I agree with the others that, for these type of shots, you can in fact manage without the meter - what matters here is the visual effect, not the measurable difference in light levels.
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I think the bottom line is to chimp & use highlight alert - thanks for all the answers!

Phil

By the way - dead impressed with the beauty dish - thanks, Garry! Love the quality of the light...

p261440511-4.jpg
 
Try cupping your hand around the sensor (Using the flat one if you have it as its more directional) to shield the ambient/sun light and you will get a better reading.

Good on you for doing it properly! You will understand the ratios better if you know the theory.
 
Hi Phil,

did you use the diffuser over the beauty dish or just on it's own. Also what size is it, 40 or 70cm? You certainly have a well lit shot there!
 
alexam said:
Hi Phil,

did you use the diffuser over the beauty dish or just on it's own. Also what size is it, 40 or 70cm? You certainly have a well lit shot there!
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Thanks! - 40cm white dish, no diffuser. Dish was about 2 foot from model.

Phil
 
Malcolm, you can have a go at it yourself on the lighting workshop on Sunday.
Lot's of different toys to play with here:)
 
garryg163 said:
Try cupping your hand around the sensor (Using the flat one if you have it as its more directional) to shield the ambient/sun light and you will get a better reading.

Good on you for doing it properly! You will understand the ratios better if you know the theory.
Click to expand...


Sorry buy that theory might be good for writing a book on using a meter but he wants to make a picture.

I wouldn't say using a meter in this situation is doing it 'properly' just differently.
 
Thanks Garry,

Any more Togs made up the numbers yet?
 
Not yet, although someone did ring yesterday and says she will join in if she can get a babysittter.

This course only just reached its full numbers before people had to drop out, last year they were filling up within days of going on the website. Maybe people think that because they're so cheap they can't be worthwhile, or maybe people have found out how useless I am:)
 
I wont comment on the last statement................... only to say that with all the comments over the years on TP about how helpful you are and how anyone going on your lighting course has benefited a great deal, and the Lencarta name for good equipment, you may just be underselling yourself! lol (TRY HARDER)
 
lensflair said:
Sorry buy that theory might be good for writing a book on using a meter but he wants to make a picture.

I wouldn't say using a meter in this situation is doing it 'properly' just differently.
Click to expand...

When you understand the theory you may be able to consciously explore the lighting possibilities not just prod around until it looks right. (Obviously "Just another different way") You will then be able to re-create any shots you have taken with your applied knowledge.

So many people fail to get a grip of the basic theory they continue to be frustrated and give up.

That is why I advocate learning ratios with flash technique.
 
garryg163 said:
When you understand the theory you may be able to consciously explore the lighting possibilities not just prod around until it looks right. (Obviously "Just another different way") You will then be able to re-create any shots you have taken with your applied knowledge.

So many people fail to get a grip of the basic theory they continue to be frustrated and give up.

That is why I advocate learning ratios with flash technique.
Click to expand...


Ok ill keep proding around maybe one day ill get it right. ;)

I agree that a meter can be useful, you can recreate a setup very quickly in studio where you have more control over ambient etc.

But if I gave you a choice of having an LCD on the back of the camera or a flash meter what would you choose.

Look its more about time, I'm a wedding photographer mostly, I can't be metering or even using more than one OCF and my on camera for fill, and that's considered an elaborate lighting setup :p

I think I've just got used to always being in such a hurry.
 
I agree that using a meter is good for learning, but that doesn't mean that not using a meter is just prodding around. It's just a different way of looking at things, and TBH I don't think that to a newcomer saying that this light is two stops down on the main light and that one is one stop up, is necessarily that easy to grasp.

Anyway, it's no different to working in E-TTL and setting one at 1:4 and the other at 2:1. Or in manual at say 1/16th power and 1/2 power. Different, yet the same, and neither is prodding around.

But that isn't actually how I do it on the hoof. I know what I want and roughly how to get it, and chimp it from there. Whatever else you might say about chimping, it's good for showing the balance of different lights right there on the screen. And if it looks right, I'm happy. Couldn't give a damn about what the meter says, completely irrelevant.

And if we're all honest about it, that's pretty much what we all do in the end ;)
 
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