Uping the game on my scanning-Advice

Jao

Jao

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Adrian
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I have been using my V500 with the Epson software for about 6 months. I have been delighted with it and although perhaps bizarre I actually enjoy the mechanical scanning process, indeed I get into a repitative and almost therapuetic 'zen space' when scanning in film. It provides an antidote to my hectic work life and is a direct contributer to restoring a small bit of balance! Sad perhaps, yes I should get out more but hey we are all different:)

I am now at a point where I wonder should I try some different software and see if I can eek a bit more out of the scanner. The options I am considering are Vue Scan and Silverfast. I'd welcome thoughts, reflections and observations about either.

I am also upgrading the neg carriers. But at this stage I am keen to see if the other software options are worth a punt? The idea of Vuescan appeals as it appears to support a vast range of hardware and OS's if I should upgrade my kit in the future.

As ever advice much appreciated.
 
I too am thinking about upgrading my software so I'll be interested to see what people think.

Like Adrian I like the scanning process and I also, strangely enjoy cleaning up the dust spots. I even zoom in to 100% and get rid of every tiny little mark....OCD? quite probably..:D
 
I get on with Vuescan a lot better than Epson scan as it gives me a bit more control over everything, I'm not worried about losing a little of the automation. It takes a little getting used to but once that's done with, then it's a nice bit of software and I thoroughly recommend it.
 
I use Vuescan for my old Polaroid 4000 Scanner and then Photoshop just to sort out the spots and scratches, my scanner is very old and i think also there is a mouse living in it.
 
I bought vuescan and have used it a few times but for 35mm black and white I end up using the Epson scan because it's quicker to rattle through 36 frames. I should use it more or I'll never really be comfortable with it but I really bought it to do slides.
 
I use VueScan, initially because I had an old Epson flat bed scanner that on upgrading to Win7 would not work, Epson didn't upgrade the drivers and referred you to VueScan. Since then I've aquired a Epson V700 and a Nikon Coolscan V and use VueScan with both of those - not bothered with the Epson s/w as next time I need to upgrade, I can't be certain of Epsons support.

I find VueScan excellent.

I've never used SilverFast, but views appear to be divided over its abilities.
 
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There's nothing whatsoever sad about scanning! I've always enjoyed it and the process of learning how to get the best results for me is every bit as exciting/enjoyable as learning how to get the best out of a camera. :)

Adrian, do you have something specific you want to achieve by upgrading your software?
 
I got a free version of Silverfast with my scanner (Canon 9000f) along with the Canon software. I downloaded the Vuescan trial and tried scanning the same set of images in each package.

Vuescan gave me the best results on default settings plus I found it the most straightforward to use, so I uninstalled the others and got the pro version for free lifetime updates.

If you're thinking of changing software, have a go with the trial versions first; it'll cost you nothing but a little time :)
 
Many thanks everyone for the comments they are very helpful, I think I am going explore Vuesn as a serious option.


PMN said:
Adrian, do you have something specific you want to achieve by upgrading your software?
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Paul that is a fair question, I guess my response would be that I have used my current hardware and software combination for a while and I think I developed some competence with it. Having achieved results I am happy with I am looking to see if I can improve further. An alternative software package might be a way to see if I can acheive more in terms of scan quality through additional/greater control. I want to see whether my V500 deliver a little more. I may of course be on a fools errand:lol:
 
When I first started scanning, I had both Epson Scan and the cut down version of Silverfast bundled with the scanner. I tried both, and then tried VueScan. I've stuck with it as I've moved up with scanners (currently a V700). For me, the important feature (more so than ease of use) is the ability to save the raw scan and reprocess it with different scanning options without needing to scan again. On large format film, it saves literally hours for me; and I can afford to tweak settings to get the best scan knowing that it will take seconds rather than hours for each trial.
 
I give the thumbs up to Vuescan also its so easy to use even on my ancient polaroid 4000.

I save to TIF files and just remove spots and scratches in photoshop and done
 
I've tried Vuescan and Silverfast and would choose Vuescan if forced. I'm sure Silverfast is good but I don't have the attention span to get the best from it. Vuescan does have it's peculiarities but is much more accessible. In the meantime I'm still using Nikon Scan as much as I can, it's old and clunky and I have to keep a crappy PC laptop soI can use it but I like it. And Silverfast is outrageously expensive, I had a copy with my V750 and asked them how to add my Nikon scanners to the licence and it was a bit pricey.
 
I use a Micotek 120tf scanner (like the Polaroid 4000 I think mine also has a mouse living in it :lol: ) and I use that with Silverfast version 8 I think, it is not the latest one.

I have also downloaded Vuescan and used with the Microtek and a Coolscan, while the Vuescan profiles were not bad I just could not get on with it I found that it gave a very rough scan and the colours were out (but that could just be me)

Silverfast is a pain in the ass to use BUT if you keep at it, it is a very powerful piece of software and like all these things once you get your custom film profiles sorted out then it is great.

Vuescan very easy to use and with the Coolscan certainly worked better than with the Microtek.

Silverfast can't use with the Coolscan as it is one licence one machine software (another reason it is a pain) PITA but works great with the Microtek.

However I have never used any of the flatbed scanners so as usual I might be talking out my hat :D
 
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I've never used the Epson Scan software, but have used SilverFast SE 6 which came with my Plustek scanner. I've done thousands of slides and negatives wih SilverFast, and it can give good results, but I do find it hard to use and to get consistent results. Upgrading to SilverFst 8 would be quite expensive, for dubious gains, but a completely new interface (I believe). Plus of course if I get a different scanner I can't transfer my copy as it's linked to the scanner.

So recently I got Vuescan Pro, and I do find that much easier to use. I've bought an IT.8 target but have not yet profiled the software. I couldn't do profiling with my version of SilverFast (you need the more expensive AI rather than SE+).

You can download Vuescan for free and try it, although it applies an ugly watermark until you pay...
 
Folks, many thanks for the advice. I am definitely going to download the trial version and give it a try, thanks to all who have offered advice it is appreciated.
 
Personally I am sticking with Epson scan on my V700. The main reason is that I now follow the same workflow as http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexburke/ and get fantastic results. The trick is not to rely on the scanning software as the processing tool as well. I now use my scanner to get the most bland, uncorrected scans as possible, thereby promoting the maximum capture of DR. Some quick fiddling in PS and all is well. Different software wont change the DMax of the scanner, so I can't personally be bothered to change.
 
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It's a shame I can't get DPL (the software we are using to drive the drum scanner) for my v500 as it has to be the easiest yet feature filled software I've ever used
 
Woodsy said:
Personally I am sticking with Epson scan on my V700. The main reason is that I now follow the same workflow as http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexburke/ and get fantastic results. The trick is not to rely on the scanning software as the processing tool as well. I now use my scanner to get the most bland, uncorrected scans as possible, thereby promoting the maximum capture of DR. Some quick fiddling in PS and all is well. Different software wont change the DMax of the scanner, so I can't personally be bothered to change.
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Here is a link to his blog giving details of the scanning technique that he uses http://SPAM/kzdtmyy
 
If using a dedicated film scanner then the software can make a difference to the DMax as its possible to use multi-exposure scanning by combining a normal and a longer timed (and hence brighter) pass to get more into the shadow detail which can be a real blessing with some slides.

Some argue that it decreases scan sharpness, but I've tried done several comparisons of with and without on my 35mm Reflecta Proscan 7200 and I couldn't see any differences in sharpness at 100% (those others were probably using flatbeds which have difficulty lining up all the scan passes precisely). When I used multi-pass scanning to see how many passes it took to make a difference in sharpening (at 1, 2, 4, 8, 12 and 16 passes as otherwise it would have taken an exceedingly long time!) even at 12 passes I struggled to differentiate the scan from the 1 pass version but at 16 there was a slight loss of sharpness.

As mentioned above, the ability to profile a scanner using IT8.7 targets with Vuescan is a great feature as for only £20 - £30 you can get a target and get quite accurate scans which only tend to require levels and sharpening rather than extensive corrections to try to get it looking like the original (you can just scan the target in with any scanning software and use an external program like SCARSE to generate the profile but its key that your able to lock the scanners exposure in your scanning software to what you used when scanning the target)
 
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i'm pretty sure the software is not changing the DMax, it's changing the effective dynamic range of the final image through a method almost identical to HDR...
 
Woodsy said:
i'm pretty sure the software is not changing the DMax, it's changing the effective dynamic range of the final image through a method almost identical to HDR...
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This.

Dmax is a function of the scanner hardware and can't be affected by the software
 
Woodsy said:
Personally I am sticking with Epson scan on my V700. The main reason is that I now follow the same workflow as http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexburke/ and get fantastic results. The trick is not to rely on the scanning software as the processing tool as well. I now use my scanner to get the most bland, uncorrected scans as possible, thereby promoting the maximum capture of DR. Some quick fiddling in PS and all is well. Different software wont change the DMax of the scanner, so I can't personally be bothered to change.
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wickerman said:
Here is a link to his blog giving details of the scanning technique that he uses http://SPAM/kzdtmyy
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Very interesting link, thanks for highlighting
 
Woodsy said:
Personally I am sticking with Epson scan on my V700. The main reason is that I now follow the same workflow as http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexburke/ and get fantastic results. The trick is not to rely on the scanning software as the processing tool as well. I now use my scanner to get the most bland, uncorrected scans as possible, thereby promoting the maximum capture of DR. Some quick fiddling in PS and all is well. Different software wont change the DMax of the scanner, so I can't personally be bothered to change.
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I have been thinking of doing this when I scan in slides. Spend time getting a neautral scan, and then spend time in Lightroom or PS and adjust the scan so it matches the negative. I need to get a projector for this so I can project the slide onto the wall next to the monitors.

This will obviously be difficulty with negatives and B&W films...

That's my plan anyway, I just need to do it.
 
Sectionate said:
I have been thinking of doing this when I scan in slides. Spend time getting a neautral scan, and then spend time in Lightroom or PS and adjust the scan so it matches the negative. I need to get a projector for this so I can project the slide onto the wall next to the monitors.

This will obviously be difficulty with negatives and B&W films...

That's my plan anyway, I just need to do it.
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If your scanning slides, as I said above you'll save yourself a hell of a lot of time if you profile your scanner to a target and the end result will be fairly accurate to the original.
 
Sectionate said:
I need to get some of the scanner targets. Just need to stop spending money on films lol
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You only really need the one target to get a good result, whilst o.k for the most accurate colours etc you can get every target but even just the one type will provide a massive increase in quality so get one for the film type you use the most.
 
Woodsy said:
Personally I am sticking with Epson scan on my V700. The main reason is that I now follow the same workflow as http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexburke/ and get fantastic results. The trick is not to rely on the scanning software as the processing tool as well. I now use my scanner to get the most bland, uncorrected scans as possible, thereby promoting the maximum capture of DR. Some quick fiddling in PS and all is well. Different software wont change the DMax of the scanner, so I can't personally be bothered to change.
Click to expand...

Interesting and something that has been niggling away at the back of my mind (which is a large empty space where ideas are free to roam) for a while. Why use the scanner to get it right when you have the software already?

Andy
 
At least in part because one of the things you should get right is the tonal range. The smoother the transitions, the better the result. When you start to adjust contrast in PhotoShop, you're either compressing or expanding the tonal range, and this means that Photoshop has to (say) replace a value of 125 (on the 0-255 scale if you're in 8 bit mode) with a value of 127. End result - no value 126 remains, and the number of tones has dropped by one. In practice, you'll drop far more (see the histogram) and the final result has fewer different tonal values and if carried to the logical extreme, the result is posterised.

I can easily produce a scan that has such a poor tonal range that it's beyond my abilities to fix in PhotoShop.
 
Wow, more and more interesting........ I feel experimentation coming on.

Andy
 
Me too Andy, although I think I am going to give Vuescan a go this thread has made me to rethink the whole process of scanning and what it is I am trying to achieve. Lots to learn an slots of things to try.
 
Here are two scans from the same negative. I couldn't transform the first into the second using PhotoShop - but then my skills are limited. But it shows the difference scan settings can make.

9615072713_37657391b9_o.jpg
[/url][/IMG]


9615072569_3fa02345ee_o.jpg
[/url] scan good by StephenBatey, on Flickr[/IMG]
 
I've recently started using the VueScan instructions below for B&W scans and they work a treat.
I can't remember where I got these (maybe here) and I didn't take a note of the originators name, so apologies and thanks and if it is you feel free to claim them as your own.

-----------------------------

" Right!! Black and White scans...

Give these a go....

Input
Mode-transparency
Media-slide film
Bits per px-48bit RGB
Scan res-3200dpi (I'm scanning 6x7 format)
Number of passes-1
Multi exposure-tick to turn on

Filter
All off/set to none

Color
Colour balance-none
Curve low-0.001
Curve high-0.001
Brightness-1,1,1,1
Slide vendor-generic
Slide brand-color
Slide type-slide
View color RGB

Output
Tiff file type 48bit RGB
Tiff profile

That should get you a nice big ass negative scan.

Load up in Photoshop.

1. Curve adj layer. Grab top right and drag down to bottom right, grab bottom left and drag up to top left, this will invert your image, making it a positive, and making more sense.

2. You'll notice you probably have a strong colour cast, so create a channel mixer layer and just check monochrome.

Voila. Adjust levels and or curves to contrast of your choice."

 
John, that sounds a LOT of work compared with the straightforward approach! Any examples of what persuaded you to do it?
 
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