Upgrading from speedlights to portable studio lights

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dlphotography

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Hi guys im upgrading from my speedlights to more powerfull portable lighting setup.

I have considered the following

lencarta li-on
alien bee with vegabond battery (as they now sell from UK)

Im looking for something to turn a nice blue sky dark blue on a sunny day yet be portable enough to take with me on location. I know the lencarta is 600w but thats split between 2 lights also the lencarta is not upgradable meaning if i need 4 lights i need to buy the whole system again. Where as the Alien Bees if im not wrong will power 4 lights off the vagabond.

Has anyone got any experience with alien bees and especially anyone bought from uk supplier? ie whats there service like?

anyone have any more recommendations on lights for location work? I have a budget of 1k and need them to be battery operated when on location.

Many thanks
 
Going for Alien Bees would be a brave decision for someone living outside the U.S.
They have an excellent reputation for customer service, but only within their own country, and with the exception of their Einstein model, they are generally regarded as very basic lights.

If you are considering a battery pack system that powers mains powered flash heads, there are plenty of other alternatives from suppliers in the UK.
I know the lencarta is 600w but thats split between 2 lights
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No, the Safari can output all 600Ws through one head if required

Basically, you need to decide where your priorities lie. In a perfect world, it's best to have mains powered heads for indoor use and battery powered heads for outdoor use. You can use a battery powered system indoors, and you can use mains powered equipment outdoors, but both of these approaches are a compromise - so if you're planning to buy just one type of system, it should be the one that suits the majority of your work.
 
I've not heard anything good about the UK Einstein support, the US support though is apparently very good.

For your budget, as Garry says, you need to decide if you want mains or battery units.
 
For what you describe, 400ws won't be powerful enough. I just bought a GeminiRx 400 kit with travelpak and they aren't powerful enough in full on sun.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Going for Alien Bees would be a brave decision for someone living outside the U.S.
They have an excellent reputation for customer service, but only within their own country, and with the exception of their Einstein model, they are generally regarded as very basic lights.

If you are considering a battery pack system that powers mains powered flash heads, there are plenty of other alternatives from suppliers in the UK.
No, the Safari can output all 600Ws through one head if required

Basically, you need to decide where your priorities lie. In a perfect world, it's best to have mains powered heads for indoor use and battery powered heads for outdoor use. You can use a battery powered system indoors, and you can use mains powered equipment outdoors, but both of these approaches are a compromise - so if you're planning to buy just one type of system, it should be the one that suits the majority of your work.
Click to expand...

What alternatives are there? I mean I want small enough to transport but battery powered and powerfull enough say 600w and also be expandable not have to buy a new system each time I buy a new light.
 
Not 600W but you can shoot at 1/8000th sec, use battery or mains power, better quality of light than speedlites and loads of backwards compatibility (older flasheads can be upgraded by Quantum)

Quantum X series Qflash tick all those boxes, and you can kill the mid day sun.
 
dlphotography said:
What alternatives are there? I mean I want small enough to transport but battery powered and powerfull enough say 600w and also be expandable not have to buy a new system each time I buy a new light.
Click to expand...

What do you mean "buy a new system" ? are you referring to not having to buy a new battery pack and still keep 600Ws on each head?

If you are, you need a 1200Ws battery unit that can power two heads at 600Ws, which I'm afraid is out of your budget new, and most probably even S/H too.
 
dlphotography said:
What alternatives are there? I mean I want small enough to transport but battery powered and powerfull enough say 600w and also be expandable not have to buy a new system each time I buy a new light.
Click to expand...
I think there may be some confusion here...
What you are talking about is getting
EITHER mains powered flash heads and running them from what is, in essence, a car battery with an inverter that brings them up to mains voltage - a workable compromise but very much a compromise

OR a set designed primarily for outdoor use and with enough power to overwhelm the sun. That's Lencarta Safari Li-on or Profoto Acute B2 AIRs territory. Both of these units are designed specifically for the job and can also be used indoors if required, but as I said earlier, they come into their own where mains power isn't available.

If you want to go down the mains powered heads with a battery and inverter route then you are not forced to buy Alien Bees, there are plenty of other makes of both flash heads and inverters. You could go for the known brands such as Bowens, Elinchrom, Lencarta or the cheaper rebrands, they can all be used with inverters.

Outdoors during daylight hours there is always ambient light. It can be a nuisance or it can help. Either way, it's there and so forms an important lightsource, which means that you need less flash heads than you might think.
10Aug12_004.jpg

If you're shooting in the dark, as in the shot below, there is little or no help from the ambient light and it becomes just like a studio shot, so you may or may not need an extra light for fill - but it never becomes complicated.
600197_10152644811005468_485756290_n.jpg


Now, if you become a high end fashion photographer then you may end up with a lot of gear, but don't overestimate the amount needed for most types of shoot. It has more to do with knowledge and skill than gear.
 
Garry Edwards said:
I think there may be some confusion here...
What you are talking about is getting
EITHER mains powered flash heads and running them from what is, in essence, a car battery with an inverter that brings them up to mains voltage - a workable compromise but very much a compromise

OR a set designed primarily for outdoor use and with enough power to overwhelm the sun. That's Lencarta Safari Li-on or Profoto Acute B2 AIRs territory. Both of these units are designed specifically for the job and can also be used indoors if required, but as I said earlier, they come into their own where mains power isn't available.

If you want to go down the mains powered heads with a battery and inverter route then you are not forced to buy Alien Bees, there are plenty of other makes of both flash heads and inverters. You could go for the known brands such as Bowens, Elinchrom, Lencarta or the cheaper rebrands, they can all be used with inverters.

Outdoors during daylight hours there is always ambient light. It can be a nuisance or it can help. Either way, it's there and so forms an important lightsource, which means that you need less flash heads than you might think.
10Aug12_004.jpg

If you're shooting in the dark, as in the shot below, there is little or no help from the ambient light and it becomes just like a studio shot, so you may or may not need an extra light for fill - but it never becomes complicated.
600197_10152644811005468_485756290_n.jpg


Now, if you become a high end fashion photographer then you may end up with a lot of gear, but don't overestimate the amount needed for most types of shoot. It has more to do with knowledge and skill than gear.
Click to expand...

Great info Garry I am torn between the bees and the lencarta lion now. The bees offer a wider power range and more versatile when using 3/4 lights but the lion is smaller andportable.

Bowens offer a inverter but not as high specked as the vagabond in recycle and flash usage.

Stuck now
 
JonathanRyan said:
Jinbei make a 1,200 w box that looks a lot like a Safari Lion (yes, I know they aren't supposed to be the same inside). You can even buy the long awaited "pro" heads that Lencarta have been working on if you get one with a Jinbei sticker ;) http://www.photospecialist.co.uk/product/1529688/jinbei-dc-1200-flash-set.html

Not much more than the Lencarta 600 w one. Your call which you prefer.
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Well, on like for like products, most of the prices on that site (a Dutch Company with an English website) are actually higher than ours, so it isn't difficult to work out that when our assemblers and us say that the contents of Lencarta products are different to Jinbei, it might just be true:) And Lencarta have had those Safari Li-on heavy duty heads for a while now. They are currently sold out, but more are arriving next week.
Great info Garry I am torn between the bees and the lencarta lion now. The bees offer a wider power range and more versatile when using 3/4 lights but the lion is smaller andportable.
Click to expand...
It's a piece of cake to provide an enormous power range - you just have to think it's acceptable to produce very inconsistent quality of the light at low power settings. A certain make of light, which shall be nameless, produced inconsistencies of flash energy of 120% and inconsistencies of colour temperature of over 1000K when tested at its lowest setting.

It's a bit like a rev limiter on a high performance car. If it doesn't have one it will be a bit cheaper to produce, will produce a theoretically higher top speed and look better on paper. In the real world though, it's a very good idea not to be able to blow the engine up:)
 
Garry Edwards said:
Well, on like for like products, most of the prices on that site (a Dutch Company with an English website) are actually higher than ours, so it isn't difficult to work out that when our assemblers and us say that the contents of Lencarta products are different to Jinbei, it might just be true:) And Lencarta have had those Safari Li-on heavy duty heads for a while now. They are currently sold out, but more are arriving next week.
It's a piece of cake to provide an enormous power range - you just have to think it's acceptable to produce very inconsistent quality of the light at low power settings. A certain make of light, which shall be nameless, produced inconsistencies of flash energy of 120% and inconsistencies of colour temperature of over 1000K when tested at its lowest setting.

It's a bit like a rev limiter on a high performance car. If it doesn't have one it will be a bit cheaper to produce, will produce a theoretically higher top speed and look better on paper. In the real world though, it's a very good idea not to be able to blow the engine up:)
Click to expand...

True.

What would be the price of the heavy duty head kit? What size / weight will it hold? 28" dish? 50" softbox? Same question on the standard head?
 
With 2 heavy duty heads, the cost is £1100.
With 2 standard heads, now re-named lightweight heads, the cost is £1000.

The heavy duty heads will take literally any accessory, that's what they're for. Of course, you will still need to tie things down with guy ropes in strong wind, that's unavoidable.

As for the lightweight heads, I've used them with the biggest and heaviest accessories too, with no problems. It just requires a bit more care and the website carries the usual disclaimer.

You'll see that we had no problems on this shoot, using both the 150cm octa box and the large beauty dish
[YOUTUBE]INRtD6jYvWk[/YOUTUBE]
 
Garry Edwards said:
With 2 heavy duty heads, the cost is £1100.
With 2 standard heads, now re-named lightweight heads, the cost is £1000.

The heavy duty heads will take literally any accessory, that's what they're for. Of course, you will still need to tie things down with guy ropes in strong wind, that's unavoidable.

As for the lightweight heads, I've used them with the biggest and heaviest accessories too, with no problems. It just requires a bit more care and the website carries the usual disclaimer.

You'll see that we had no problems on this shoot, using both the 150cm octa box and the large beauty dish
[YOUTUBE]INRtD6jYvWk[/YOUTUBE]
Click to expand...

Hmm temping!

I may consider a light weight head and next month buy the heavy as I would love to buy the large beauty dish at same time. Any discounts if I do go for it? ;)
 
dlphotography said:
One more question How are the li-ons in cold / damp weather?
Click to expand...
Cold and damp:)

Not waterproof, but perfectly OK. The shot I posted earlier of the beauty kissing the beast was taken in the pouring rain - it was horizontal rain as it happens, as it was a tad windy too, even for Yorkshire. If the weather is really bad you'll need to spend extra money on a black bin bag, standard professional equipment...

Sorry, no discounts next month, but a 5% discount until the end of this month, on everything you buy. Just use the coupon code focus
 
Garry Edwards said:
Cold and damp:)

Not waterproof, but perfectly OK. The shot I posted earlier of the beauty kissing the beast was taken in the pouring rain - it was horizontal rain as it happens, as it was a tad windy too, even for Yorkshire. If the weather is really bad you'll need to spend extra money on a black bin bag, standard professional equipment...

Sorry, no discounts next month, but a 5% discount until the end of this month, on everything you buy. Just use the coupon code focus
Click to expand...



Your a star Garry!

I will ponder over this for a week now. And count my penny's ;)
 
Garry Edwards said:
Well, on like for like products, most of the prices on that site (a Dutch Company with an English website) are actually higher than ours
Click to expand...

Oh interesting. I'd heard the prices had gone up but hadn't really paid attention.

However, Holland is closer to me than Bradford and generally they speak better English ;)
 
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