Upgrade or master the camera?

Blasted

Blasted

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Am I kidding my self that buying a full frame camera and a few more fancy lenses will catapult me to the next level of photography?

Or

Could I make leaps and bounds by practising and mastering the technical aspects of photography and staying with the kit I have?

I currently have a 7d with a 17-55mm f2.8, 70-200mm F4, 50mm f1.8 and a 100mm f2.8, a 430 flash and a couple of lee grad filters, plus a Fuji 100 to go in my pocket. It’s a half decent set up in my opinion, but I could be wrong. I like to shoot pretty much everything with the exception of “street”, I never really got into that.

Don’t get me wrong, like most people on this site, part of the fun with this hobby is the shiny new kit and all the planning for getting the next big thing. But it costs money and lots of it, which I don’t always have. I’m not saying I couldn’t get better equipment but the justification has to be there. When I look back at some of the images I have taken, I’ve often been surprised, not blowing my own trumpet. Most of the images on my vanity site were with the 7D

So where do you go? I have been reading a few books on composition, light, exposure and been generally viewing plenty of collections. I am also looking at delving into off camera flash more, maybe get a couple of flashes and light stands and get outdoors, plan projects that sort of thing.

Thoughts anyone?
 
If buying a full frame camera will motivate you to work harder as a photographer, then that is reason enough.
 
would buying a Bugatti Veyron make you a better driver??

No I thought not :eek:

Master what you have and when you out grow and out perform the camera you have ,move on and up are my thoughts on this


Les :thumbs:
 
This year I'm really pushing myself to get out and do more. I have set one project of photographing a local park throughout the year and making a bit of a display up at the end of it. I also want to get better at portrates as thats where I have a fair bit of interest. Im not looking at making any money out it, rather I just want to be recognised.

As for hitting limits of kit, the noise bothers me a little but i cant really compare as i havent used full frame. additonally with the wildlife, light and shutter peed can be an issue, plus I have always really liked the colours and contrast i seem to see more in full frame. although this again could be fixed by better understanding and technique.
 
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I tend to work on a basis of are there photo's that you feel you've missed because of the camera, I don't see as there is a point in upgrading until the camera is a limiting factor in your photography...I shot for 3 years with my 450D and was starting to feel limited by the camera in what I was doing so when I got the chance I jump with both feet into my 5D3 and I'll be honest I've never looked back it's a wonderful camera and there is no denying the qualities of full frame over crop, the dynamic range of my 5D3 is head and shoulders above what the 450D was capable of
 
Blasted said:
Am I kidding my self that buying a full frame camera and a few more fancy lenses will catapult me to the next level of photography?

Or

Could I make leaps and bounds by practising and mastering the technical aspects of photography and staying with the kit I have?
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Yes and Yes.

All depends on exactly what you mean by 'the next level'. The camera and kit you have may never need to be upgraded.
 
There's no doubt that an upgrade can give you a technical improvement, however, I'd be willing to bet good money that 99% of amateur photographers would get a bigger increase in the quality of their photos by spending the upgrade money on learning, i.e. going on photography workshops with respected pro's.

I'm not saying don't get that shiny new kit we all dribble looking at, but that alone is unlikely to give the best pound for pound results.

Mike
 
I would say master your current camera then upgrade if it is holding your photography back
 
Blasted said:
Food for thought,

I suppose another way of looking a it would be to ask at what point did you upgrade and why?
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Well that's easy - I haven't yet?

Mind you, I only need to shoot wedding receptions in caves and print at A3+ sizes so I'm not really pushing the gear (7d and 17-55 too). I've only been shooting for close to 30 years though, I'm sure there'll be people whose needs and experience is greater with alternative answers;)

Seriously, years ago I needed to upgrade from 35mm to MF for the ability to print large, I needed to upgrade from consumer grade zooms to pro spec zooms for the low light and focussing ability, I needed to upgrade from 6mp / 8mp / 10mp cameras when the high ISO noise was an improvement worth buying. The point is I knew what I was lacking, when the 7d II comes along I'll probably get one to retire one of the older bodies.

If I could get a 6mp crop sensor camera with brilliantly clean ISO6400 and big bright viewfinder I'd grab it like a shot.

If you want your photographs to improve, it's a case of learning and opportunity - If you know everything (you need no training) then photo holidays are probably the best money you could spend. If you don't know everything, then training is money well spent. If you know everything and get to go out every weekend shooting interesting stuff, then treat yourself to a new camera, you deserve the reward.
 
Keep the body, buy a new lens and visit a local photo workshop (if there are any about) or - visit Amazon, £200 will get you a lot of reading in :)
I would also say look into getting a second hand 24-70 F/2.8L or a 10-20mm UWA for a bit of fun :)
 
Blasted said:
Food for thought,

I suppose another way of looking a it would be to ask at what point did you upgrade and why?
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When I upgraded from my D70 to the D7000 I was genuinely hitting the limits with the D70 and the small screen on the back with my poor eyesight didn't help ... when I went FX, well truth is because I wanted to - I had no overriding reason to as the D7000 was more than capable for my shooting needs.
 
For 90% of people what you have is more than enough.

Tbh if you are asking questions about if mastering photography will make your photos better than you are already aware that you need to improve, and buying new kit won't resolve these issues. You'll still be making the same mistakes and have the same deficiencies in your ability but with a worse bank balance and pics that aren't a whole lot better.

You only need to upgrade kit when you see a pic, take it and the reason it's not as good as it could potentially be is that the kit isn't capable of producing that result. Pointing a 5D MK III at something won't mean a great pic if your ability isn't good enough.

Think of it like Lionel Messi playing football. Give him no boots and make him play in bare feet and he'd still run rings around the local sunday league team. Give them his boots and will they play any better than the week before? Nope!
 
I'm liking phils idea of a photography holiday. Maybe I need to use the techincal information I have managed to squeeze into my head. I wouldn't say I'm a total beginner and I am fairly competant with the 7D, so challenging scenes may be the way forward, that and start being more creative, step out of the box and experiment.
 
You say you'd like to get more into portraits, why not go for studio training and get some lights and a background if you have spare room, or go portable if not and set up a mobile studio?
I done my first studio training on a groupon offer, ended up being the only one who turned up so learned a bit and had a lot of fun for not much money
It led the way for me to do more training, set up a small studio and do portraits and family shoots, which give me a few quid to put back into improved gear
getting interested in lighting really improves your work and gives you far more control of your shooting environment too
 
Blasted said:
Am I kidding my self that buying a full frame camera and a few more fancy lenses will catapult me to the next level of photography?
Click to expand...

Yes.

Blasted said:
Or

Could I make leaps and bounds by practising and mastering the technical aspects of photography and staying with the kit I have?
Click to expand...

Yes.


However. If you want it, buy it. Buying new stuff is cool :)
 
Blasted said:
Am I kidding my self that buying a full frame camera and a few more fancy lenses will catapult me to the next level of photography?

Or

Could I make leaps and bounds by practising and mastering the technical aspects of photography and staying with the kit I have?

I currently have a 7d with a 17-55mm f2.8, 70-200mm F4, 50mm f1.8 and a 100mm f2.8, a 430 flash and a couple of lee grad filters, plus a Fuji 100 to go in my pocket. It’s a half decent set up in my opinion, but I could be wrong. I like to shoot pretty much everything with the exception of “street”, I never really got into that.

Don’t get me wrong, like most people on this site, part of the fun with this hobby is the shiny new kit and all the planning for getting the next big thing. But it costs money and lots of it, which I don’t always have. I’m not saying I couldn’t get better equipment but the justification has to be there. When I look back at some of the images I have taken, I’ve often been surprised, not blowing my own trumpet. Most of the images on my vanity site were with the 7D

So where do you go? I have been reading a few books on composition, light, exposure and been generally viewing plenty of collections. I am also looking at delving into off camera flash more, maybe get a couple of flashes and light stands and get outdoors, plan projects that sort of thing.

Thoughts anyone?
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Only buy what your tools are lacking to do the job easier or better.

For me my 400d lacked af and low noise so i went and got a 5d3. I still use my nifty fifty because for me it does not lack anything as of yet.

What you should do mate is spend the money on books workshops and go watch 100s of youtube tutorials. That will elevate your knowledge and skills more then new gear.

Good luck
 
Toughie decisions these are..... :)

I went FF a few years ago simply because I could [redundancy payout] after 18 months or so with a 450D. Yes I would say it helped as I could get shots that the 450D couldn't. Bit of a harder decision for you though as you have a much more modern kit & a more sunstantial kit than I had at the time.

Do some projects & shoot a lot more & enjoy it all IMO :)
 
Blasted said:
As for hitting limits of kit, the noise bothers me a little but i cant really compare as i havent used full frame.
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You say you are competent with the 7D, but your comment quoted above says you still have something to learn from it. Sure the 7D can be noisy in some situations, but it can be controlled with careful exposure and PP. Learn how to do that first then think of going FF. The knowledge will always stand you in good stead.
 
I've always wondered the motives behind people on internet forums who see buying gear as a bad thing. What do you care if the guy wants to drop a couple of grand on a consumer product?

I often think it's because people aren't in a position to do it themselves. I wonder if this forum was full of millionaires, would they all be sitting their with 450d's and a kit lens, because it's "all they need".

The result of having the best available camera is that you never hit a wall. There never comes a point where you don't know if it's a lack of skill/technical ability, or the limitation of the camera.

Wanting something is as good as needing something as far as consumer products go.
 
It's a non-argument as old as photography - I know a chap who was always front of the queue for the newest/best film cameras to hit the market - he'd take a few rolls of film with his new acquisition, and trade it in for the next newest/best to come along - couldn't take a decent picture for toffee........ He was on that never ending quest for the gear that would make him a better photographer - it doesn't exist! ;)
 
London Headshots said:
I've always wondered the motives behind people on internet forums who see buying gear as a bad thing. What do you care if the guy wants to drop a couple of grand on a consumer product?

I often think it's because people aren't in a position to do it themselves. I wonder if this forum was full of millionaires, would they all be sitting their with 450d's and a kit lens, because it's "all they need".

The result of having the best available camera is that you never hit a wall. There never comes a point where you don't know if it's a lack of skill/technical ability, or the limitation of the camera.

Wanting something is as good as needing something as far as consumer products go.
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I think sometimes people are just trying to be helpful and offer some basic education on what is needed / required.

I own a 5D MK III and have just put and order in for a 6D, I also own a 7D. I would advise most people that they don't need anything above a 7D based on experience and understanding, not because I am jealous they are buying something I already own.

It's up to them to take or leave that advice, and I reckon 80% or more of the time people will buy it regardless as their implusive nature takes over in such instances.

Does it bother me if they do? Nope. If they ask a question and I feel I can offer decent advice will I? Yep!

I think you're being a little niave in your assumptions tbh, although you may be right in some cases but I feel that is the minority rather than the majority of times
 
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London Headshots said:
I've always wondered the motives behind people on internet forums who see buying gear as a bad thing. What do you care if the guy wants to drop a couple of grand on a consumer product?

I often think it's because people aren't in a position to do it themselves. I wonder if this forum was full of millionaires, would they all be sitting their with 450d's and a kit lens, because it's "all they need".

The result of having the best available camera is that you never hit a wall. There never comes a point where you don't know if it's a lack of skill/technical ability, or the limitation of the camera.

Wanting something is as good as needing something as far as consumer products go.
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I have to disagree (largely), Most people haven't tried to discourage the OP from getting a new toy if he wants one. I personally pointed out that he could spend the money elsewhere and get something that'd improve his pictures (which I thought was the point of advice on a photo forum:thinking:).

Just buying a new camera means you get slightly better versions of the pictures you're taking now. That might be a good reason to upgrade (ie better focussing or low light ability, higher resolutions for large output). But most people upgrading don't really have that need, and it's useful to let them know how they can actually improve the quality of their output.

Look at all the 'what's wrong with my pictures' threads - many people haven't got a basic understanding of light - and buying the latest camera isn't going to change that - but some training will.
 
Phil, it's not this thread really it's the general tone of internet forums (which is why I said "internet forums" and not "this thread". This thread just reminded me, kind of) Buying new gear just because you want it is looked down upon.

My opinion on equipment is to buy the best you can possibly afford, or even slightly beyond your means, and buy as many lighting tools as you can get your hands on, so that in the end, the only excuse you have for a bad image is yourself.

Some guy tomorrow creates a thread where he's only been shooting for a month, but wants a D800. How many people tell him to go for it, compared to how many people reply in outrage that he'd dare upgrade before he'd mastered his current camera.
 
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My photography has improved by getting rid of all my stuff. All I have now is the X-E1, the 14mm & the 35mm. I shoot for fun, and now that I don't have to lug tons of stuff around, I enjoy it more.

I agree with the "yes " and "yes" answers. Having f1.4 and a usable ISO up to 6400 allows me to keep the camera next to me at night and take candids of the cats and family with just two lamps in the lounge. But having completed several courses at local colleges as well as the required reading has taught me a metric ton about what works and what doesn't. Making new friends is also an added side benefit.

But then - the only person I have to please is me. I'm not making a living out of photography. If I had tons of money, I would go mad with photography gear. Not because I think it would make me better, but simply because I could.
 
Always nice to have shiny new stuff, but if you don't know how to use it, whats the point? Surely there are better things in this world to spend disposable income on!

It is your money...do what you please!

Bolly
 
Bolly said:
Always nice to have shiny new stuff, but if you don't know how to use it, whats the point?

Fun learning?
Improving your skill set?
Broaden your horizons?
Im just thinking back to getting studio lights and photoshop, absolutely clueless but inspired to learn
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To the OP, if your current set up is starting to hold you back then definitely consider upgrading. Another point worth considering is this. If you currently have the funds to upgrade but don't, will you have the funds available in the future?

I would love to upgrade but funds are poo at the moment :(

Andy
 
There is no question that for me using technologically advanced equipment is a big high. Does it make me a better photographer- probably not so I go to classes and my local photography club.
 
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