Upgrade equipment to stop grain?

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AWills

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Hi everyone. I took some shots indoors this afternoon using a 50mm 1.8 lens on my Nikon D3200. The images look nice and light, but when I zoom in they are quite grainy (despite shooting wide open.) I have only viewed them on the camera as I'm not home yet so haven't viewed them on the mac.

Do I need to upgrade my equipment? I already plan to buy the 50mm 1.4 (as discussed on a post yesterday) but would I also benefit from upgrading my camera to the D7200 for example?
 
Why are you zooming in to look for problems?

D7200 isn't particularly good at high ISO.

Nothing wrong with a bit of noise anyway.
 
Any image on any digital camera with any lens will look 'grainy' if you blow it up enough, this is just a function of the resolution. Are you sure it is grain? You say you were shooting your 1.8 wide open so I assume you didn't have the ISO pumped up too high so that shouldn't be causing what you identify as grain. Also not sure what difference the 1.4 lens will make to this, it is faster, sure, but unless you are shooting in very low light conditions then it won't make much difference. If you are shooting in very low light you will need low aperture and high ISO and the 3200 may not be the tool for the job but I suspect you are just looking at the resolution of the image. Perhaps you could post one.
 
It's not grain it's noise.

If you look at the Mona Lisa or the Haywain do you concentrate on the pattern on the canvas?

There will always be technical limitations, our job is to minimise them within reason (don't underexpose it'll exacerbate any issues).

Enjoy the 'photography' by making pictures.
 
I'd wager that the images are fine. @Phil V is right with his Mona Lisa analogy, no-one will be studying your photo's at 100% and picking up on any noise etc. The only person who will ever do that is you, and it's one of the most counter productive things that you can do to better your photography.

Take it from one who knows, I used to pixel peep ( look for faults etc) at 100% and I ended up being so dissatisfied with so many of my shots which, looking back, were fine. What I try to do now is judge a picture at the size it will be viewed at. I still use a 100% view to apply sharpening, and judge initial focus etc, but it's not how I decide whether I'm happy with the picture or not.
 
Aaaand, the D3200 is pretty damn good for noise, I very much doubt any other DX camera will be much better.

Save your money and learn to use what you have, it's a good camera.
 
Thanks for your replies everyone. While we're on this topic, what benefit would I get from upgrading my camera?
 
AWills said:
Thanks for your replies everyone. While we're on this topic, what benefit would I get from upgrading my camera?
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In what terms? I doubt there is even a stop difference in the best and worst iso performing DX sensor in the last 5 years. If you are getting frustrated with the lack of direct control on the d3200 is the main difference.
 
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AWills said:
Thanks for your replies everyone. While we're on this topic, what benefit would I get from upgrading my camera?
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Quite frankly it sounds like you are simply looking for an excuse to spend money because you want another camera or like the newer shinier models.

If that's the case go ahead but don't expect to have it make any difference to your photographs.

Any digital camera can, within reason, produce excellent shots if you have the expertise to use them to their best.

If not than a new camera will give you nothing more than you already have and will make no difference to your photography.
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AWills said:
Thanks for your replies everyone. While we're on this topic, what benefit would I get from upgrading my camera?
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There are always benefits for upgrading, I don't know the 2 cameras, but I'd guess AF features, speed, ergonomics?

The question is...

What's letting you down in your current camera, do you need to upgrade?

Would the money be better spent on lenses, lighting, outings with your camera?

The camera (unless you're into a specialist genre) is about the least important ingredient in a photograph.
 
AWills said:
Hi everyone. I took some shots indoors this afternoon using a 50mm 1.8 lens on my Nikon D3200. The images look nice and light, but when I zoom in they are quite grainy (despite shooting wide open.) I have only viewed them on the camera as I'm not home yet so haven't viewed them on the mac.

Do I need to upgrade my equipment? I already plan to buy the 50mm 1.4 (as discussed on a post yesterday) but would I also benefit from upgrading my camera to the D7200 for example?
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Also, I'm not sure spending money on the 50 1.4 is a very good use of money seeing as you have the 1.8 already, yes it is a touch faster but at f/1.4 the DoF is too shallow for a lot of subjects.

The benefits of a more expensive camera are typically a more sophisticated AF system and more buttons to give direct controls, some will be weather sealed. So, unless you are finding the AF restrictive, frustrated by the lack of control or want to go shooting in the rain there is zero reason to upgrade.

If noise really is your big issue then you need to be looking at full frame.
 
What ISO and shutter speed were you using?

Lower ISO should give less noise, but for less noise at any given ISO you would need to upgrade to full frame, but even then the gain is marginal unless shooting in really low light.
 
Note to self.one mans grain is not another mans pain,i should be concentrating on if my composition and lighting is good rather than worry too much about my equipment.
This is to myself but it might help you,its helping me.
 
Do you have a flash, not a pop up one?
 
AWills said:
Thanks for your replies everyone. While we're on this topic, what benefit would I get from upgrading my camera?
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Your wallet would be lighter.
 
By shooting at ISO 100 it is possible to eliminate noise completely with the addition of a flash or tripod or a combination of both. Ideal for photography inside. Just one solution for one subject. Not so good for sport etc.
 
OP to answer your questions there are several ways to reduce noise:-

1. Change your exposure settings (aperture and/or shutter speed) to keep ISO low, the lower the ISO the less noise there'll be (although available light will also affect noise)
2. If you can't change exposure values (ie at widest aperture and taking moving subjects so can't lower the shutter speed) then use flash, preferably bounced/diffused flash from a speedlight rather than on camera flash.
3. Upgrade your equipment by buying and faster lens and/or body that has better noise handling.

In terms of what an upgrade can offer, this has been mentioned already but generally it is more/better functions, better AF, better sensor, better build, possible weather sealing, different ergonomics and possibly a few other things.

Now for my opinions. Everyone's tolerance of noise varies and if you don't like it then that's all that matters and it shouldn't matter if others think noise adds character, or shouldn't be an issue etc. Just because someone else is happy with noise it doesn't mean you have to be. However, keep things in perspective and focus on technique before throwing money at new gear hoping it's going to be the answer to all your woes. And as mentioned, we pixel peep which magnifies noise, when viewing at normal sizes noise will be far less apparent. Phil's analogy of the Mona Lisa is a good one.

The D7200 isn't the best handling with regards to noise, but it's pretty darn good. Yes the D3200 is good too, but with the advancement in tech when you start getting up to 3200 and 6400 ISO the difference in the newer cams is more apparent. At 6400 the D3200 is pretty bad/unusable IMO.

View attachment 93182

OK, test charts etc aren't the best test and aren't a true reflection of the real world (especially as chroma noise is well managed by LR etc), but they do give a reasonable comparison from one camera to another.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
By shooting at ISO 100 it is possible to eliminate noise completely with the addition of a flash or tripod or a combination of both. Ideal for photography inside. Just one solution for one subject. Not so good for sport etc.
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Depending on who you listen to there's no such thing as a noiseless image :p
 
Your options when you dont have enough indoor light in order of effectiveness:-

1) Add Light - this can easily give you several extra stops of latitude and will also enable you to control the quality/direction of lighting in your image. A basic flashgun and some modifiers & gels will be a major step up vs ambient light only. Even a large soft-silver reflector can add a couple of stops of exposure for very little effort.

2) Increase Shutter Speed. If you're shooting a still or posed subject, using a stabilised lens can allow you to add 2-4 stops of light by dragging your shutter. If it's a moving subject then keep your shutter fast - no point taking well-exposed but blurry photos.

3) Increase Aperture. Can add several stops but can also be a mixed blessing as shallower depth of field can easily cause you to miss focus or simply not have enough DOF for your subject. If you're already at 1.8, 2/3 of a stop is the most you can increase by and

4) Increase ISO/Sensitivity. Assuming you are already at the highest ISO you find acceptable, there's very litle improvement to be had by upgrading camera. Best case scenario 1 full stop.

In your position, id spend my money on a good flashgun as first priority. Learning to add lighting in a controlled and natural looking way will free you from the constraints of ambient light

You can also look into adding a wide aperture lens with stabilisation. Canon have the 35mm f/2 IS which is a great low-light lens - not sure what the Nikon equivalent would be - hopefully someone can chime in.
 
Hermes said:
Your options when you dont have enough indoor light in order of effectiveness:-

1) Add Light - this can easily give you several extra stops of latitude and will also enable you to control the quality/direction of lighting in your image. A basic flashgun and some modifiers & gels will be a major step up vs ambient light only. Even a large soft-silver reflector can add a couple of stops of exposure for very little effort.

2) Increase Shutter Speed. If you're shooting a still or posed subject, using a stabilised lens can allow you to add 2-4 stops of light by dragging your shutter. If it's a moving subject then keep your shutter fast - no point taking well-exposed but blurry photos.

3) Increase Aperture. Can add several stops but can also be a mixed blessing as shallower depth of field can easily cause you to miss focus or simply not have enough DOF for your subject. If you're already at 1.8, 2/3 of a stop is the most you can increase by and

4) Increase ISO/Sensitivity. Assuming you are already at the highest ISO you find acceptable, there's very litle improvement to be had by upgrading camera. Best case scenario 1 full stop.

In your position, id spend my money on a good flashgun as first priority. Learning to add lighting in a controlled and natural looking way will free you from the constraints of ambient light

You can also look into adding a wide aperture lens with stabilisation. Canon have the 35mm f/2 IS which is a great low-light lens - not sure what the Nikon equivalent would be - hopefully someone can chime in.
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I'm sure you meant decrease shutter speed ;)
 
Thanks everyone, your answers have been extremely helpful! I really appreciate everyone taking the time to reply.

I had been reading articles on the web about these things but I couldn't find the answers I was looking for, and I value the opinion of the community on here far more.
 
As a very quick guide, if you need to ask "Should I upgrade?" the answer's usually "Not yet".

Because when it is time to upgrade you already know what you want to achieve that you can't do with your current kit and you've read enough to know what you think is the upgrade path is to achieve it. At that point the question changes to, "I'm stuck trying to do X with my current kit A. Can someone confirm from experience or with examples that if I upgrade from A to B will that allow me to do X?"
 
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