UPDATE: Brothers Wedding (done)

well i've read all the posts and as usual its falling into a cat fight about the rights and wrongs from a professional point of view. i would make sure my brother knew exactly what i was going to do for him "on the day" and just enjoy the day with your camera in your hand not something i would want to fall out over............new bride "well you said your brother was an excellent photographer" ..........etc. but he did'nt get this shot or that shot.i'd have a long talk with both of them together and ask exactly what they were expecting hth mike.
 
I did my father-in-laws wedding and it went fine but I did borrow a friends body for a spare just in case,I learnt so much being pushed in at the deep end!
Just do it and enjoy it maybe you'll like it that much you could do it again.
Good luck.
 
simon ess said:
There also seems to be a belief that there's a "right" way to photograph a wedding.
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I generally find that getting shots in focus and not cutting the brides head off is a pretty common requirement :lol:

joking aside i see your point - there are more ways to obtain wedding photos than having a 'wedding photographer' - however it still seems to me that the OPs brother is trying to go the 'wedding photographer' type route just without the expense of actually hiring a pro - which is fine if expectations are clear on all sides, but ofen leads to family strife if they arent
 
Offer to do the catering, and do the vicars job while you're at it. Pop on the robes and grab a few selfies with the couple at the alter whilst reading them the vows. Then rush outside, change hats and drive the limo to the reception. Grab a chefs hat and it's ready steady cook! Save them a fortune.
 
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I'd be telling them beforehand that you're not a professional so please don't expect professional standard results (i'm sure you probably have already), then if they come out cr*p they won't be disappointed :)

As for whinging because it's taking money out of a pro's pocket. How'd you figure that one out? Despite numerous request to hire a pro, they won't. You pays your money (or not), you take your chances. It's really not a wedding photographers place to be telling any bride and groom who should or shouldn't photograph their wedding...that's purely their choice and no one elses. People who are passionate about having the day documented how they want will go out of their way to make this happen. The OP's brothers wedding photo's obviously aren't high on their list of priorities so I would think they aren't expecting a Ross Harvey style wedding album. If they are, that's their ignorance at fault, not the OP's competence.
 
without getting into the pro vs amateur doing a wedding, with which I have no problem...it's not like you're looking to fit a gas boiler which might blow up!...I wouldn't do it.
I would bring my camera as I like taking photos and/or arrange a photographer for my sibling's wedding but I wouldn't wish do it all myself. I would want to enjoy the day.
Bear in mind that I've taken "official" photos at a step-in-laws wedding and done the video at another, but that wasn't a problem. (and I did it to save the family some money)
If it was my brother/sister, I'd want to be a guest and have no other responsibilities.
 
DizMatt said:
without getting into the pro vs amateur doing a wedding, with which I have no problem...it's not like you're looking to fit a gas boiler which might blow up!...I wouldn't do it.
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There speaks a man who's never met a bride who hates her wedding photos ... personally I'd take the exploding boiler
 
I shot my sisters wedding as the only 'official' photographer a few months ago, I thought long and hard about it (never shot people, let alone a wedding before) but as she had no plans to hire a pro I decided I may as well, nothing to lose and everything to gain.

My best advice would be to shoot what you're comfortable with. Everyone said borrow, beg or steal a 24-70 2.8 / 70-200 2.8 combo to make sure everything was covered, but I love my 35mm prime and I'm so, so pleased I stuck with just that for the vast majority of shots.

In terms of missing out on the day, if anything I thought the opposite, I was there for everything from start to finish, my own wedding aside I've never felt so part of or enjoyed a wedding so much. I'm pretty shy and don't drink, so being forced to be heavily involved actually helped me come out of my shell. On a practical level it was very easy to arrange me being in photos, normally one of the best men would take the shots I needed to be in once I had all the settings correct.

I did everything for free including the prints, CDs, slideshow etc (as well as invites, place names, table plan, basically all the stationery), loved every second of it. I LOVE taking photos, and I love designing stuff, so any excuse to do either of those I would normally jump at. I've read so much about the whole 'taking work from pros' argument, but as I see it I'm getting to do something I am unbelievably passionate about for somebody I love. I would do it again in a heartbeat for a close friend or another member of my family.

For the record my sister and both sides of the family were unbelievably grateful and impressed with the photos and my attitude/method during the day, so it was a win-win in the end. The only downside was my wife thought the shots were better than the £1k pro we hired for our own wedding.

My favourite from the day...


First Wedding by Harry_S, on Flickr
 
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Chris, that is a lovely write up and you have perfectly described how things can be when they go well (I love the shot too).

However because family dynamics can be so incredibly variable, as can their reactions and attitude, that is why so many people here will advocate caution when it comes to these events. I know what my own experiences have been and I have been put off getting into any more such scenarios myself. Still, I think the OP's hands might be tied on this one so we will have to keep our fingers crossed and hope all goes well.

Of course the professional photographers will come at things from a slightly different viewpoint - for a start our brains are geared towards what it is going to cost us in fixed and variable overheads to photograph a wedding for free (and the tens of hours involved) because there will be a significant income loss associated with that, simply because we are not available to paying customers for that time. When somebody depends on photography for their living, it can be very difficult to give up what is effectively a weeks income. I suspect this is why we tend to advise posters (even amateurs) to think carefully about what they're getting into timewise, the potential hassles, and the stress involved on the day when you cannot relax as a guest. I know everyone is different, and you are a good case in point, but it is still prudent to look at the other side of the coin before proceeding.

I can think of at least two acquaintances who enlisted a friend or family member to photograph their wedding (and who were fairly clear at the time that they had no intention of hiring a pro). On both occasions the photographs were not satisfactory and both of those couples ended up wishing they had rearranged their budget to allow for the photography. Your family is fortunate in that you are clearly very engaged with your work and I have no doubt the images were terrific - but do remember not everybody has your level of confidence, or competence.
 
But the groomsmen are out of focus and there's a small child in the way ... [/bridezilla] :lol:
 
Lindsay D said:
I can think of at least two acquaintances who enlisted a friend or family member to photograph their wedding (and who were fairly clear at the time that they had no intention of hiring a pro). On both occasions the photographs were not satisfactory and both of those couples ended up wishing they had rearranged their budget to allow for the photography. Your family is fortunate in that you are clearly very engaged with your work and I have no doubt the images were terrific - but do remember not everybody has your level of confidence, or competence.
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:agree: there have been a number of threads here where people have done favours for friends only for it all to go south as well - I'm sure the OP will be fine but its as well to be aware of the potential worst case if only to ensure you avoid it
 
big soft moose said:
There speaks a man who's never met a bride who hates her wedding photos ... personally I'd take the exploding boiler
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Still laughing at this one, excellent!!

Maybe the op should ask his brother and bride to be to sit down and read through this thread and then maybe they would realise the extent of the dilemma that they have placed him in, it could be a good starting point for managing expectancy's.
 
Well exactly Pete - you just never know what sort of reaction you're going to get, no matter how good the photos. I have relatives who I know I would not be able to please, no matter how much effort and skill I invested.

I had a bride this year send me a set of wedding photos for evaluation - she told me how terribly disappointed she was with them, especially as they had cost a whopping £700. She wanted to know if she had a case against the photographer. In my opinion the pictures were very good, well exceeding the money paid. The bride couldn't understand why I didn't agree with her. I think she was simply a difficult person who also didn't particularly like herself in photos - nor (in her quest for a cheap deal) had she taken the time to consider the style of photography which appealed to her.
 
Lindsay D said:
I had a bride this year send me a set of wedding photos for evaluation - she told me how terribly disappointed she was with them, especially as they had cost a whopping £700. She wanted to know if she had a case against the photographer. In my opinion the pictures were very good, well exceeding the money paid. .
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I wonder which of my clients that was ? :lol:

A friend of mine who is also a very talented wedding tog did his brother in laws wedding FoC with the brief given by both B&G that they wanted "an edgy reportage style with no boring formals.".. and created in my view a cracking set. Unfortunately a week after they got back from honeymoon his BiLs wife was creating because the set didnt include the posed group photos that her mother had been expecting. With a stranger he could have said "you got what you asked for so p*** off "or words to that effect , but with a relative that was never going to fly and three years later the subject of how "he didnt do their wedding photos propperly" still comes up in conversation !

When their first born arrived he declined to do the christening and pointed them at me instead, I took one look at mummyzilla and decided I was busy for the rest of my life :runaway:
 
Lindsay D said:
... a difficult person who also didn't particularly like herself in photos ...
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If you went on to a wedding forum now, maybe Bitched if it's still as bad as it used to be, I wonder just how many threads you'd have to scroll past before you came one started by a bride who hates her snaps and the her snapper because her arse looks big in all of them she doesn't like how she looks in any of them :rolleyes:
 
I just had a look andthe answer to that is fourth from the top on hitched... though to be fair she actually hates her workmates for wantng to see them because they arent what she imagined they'd be (the photos i assume rather than the work mates)

mind you brides on wedding forums - especially the ones that hang arrund for years after their weddings because they are 'experts' are a strange and scary species , only rivalled by the denizens of the mummy forums
 
by the way if you think hitched is bad have alook at Wedding Bee (murricans) , I found it just now and it has a sort of hortible fascination like watching an anthrolopolical experiment and determining that yes, people are indeed that stupid.

My favourite is probably the woman who slagged off her husbands sister on line and is now upset at the "invasion of privacy" caused by her SiL reading those posts :thinking: though the woman who can't tell if she's pregnant and has posted a picture of her tester strip coms a close second , with the bronze medal going to the onewho's been asked out by her married neighbour and wants to knowwhat she should do becase she doesnt want to cheat on her fiance :banghead:

sample photographic rant (togs name removed by me)

"Do not book xxxxx, she is awful and completely unprofessional! We were married at the Cathedral in Cleveland and all of our photos inside were horrible! We specifically told her “no Cleveland shots” as my husband is from Cincinnati and almost all of our photos outside have the skyline of Cleveland in the background... "

( I can't help feeling that the venue location might have something to do with the skyline , f***s sake )
 
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hooollyy crap - what a bunch of hatstands
 
LOL @big soft moose there speaks a man of experience.
I've done a couple of weddings, (been roped into) and I'm not good enough to completely amend my 'style' to that of the bride's expectations, so I don't pretend to try.
With such a fixed brief, then I'm not surprised you avoided that commission.
There are two things for me in sales: "give them what they ask for and then give them what they actually want".
I would never skimp on the formal photos because those are the ones that end up on granny's mantelpiece.

but seriously, an exploding boiler!??!? noxious gases, flying red-hot shrapnel, potential for choking, loss of life and limp vs a 'stroppy bride'
okay...fair enough, I see your point.
I think that WEX sell these now
1383190461_produit_img_1665695.jpg
 
Non-pro wading in.

I, like a lot of guests, whip out my smartphone and take some photos. The difference is that these are for my record (as we invariably never get to see the tog's photos). If you went in with this mindset ie it's like taking snapshots rather than photographs (and all parties involved were aware of this), I'd probably do it. If on the other hand, they were expecting pro quality photos, I wouldn't even take out my smartphone as a guest let alone attend as a tog.

It all boils down to expectations on both sides. Do they expect a pro quality set of photos? Do they just want a collection of photos from everyone but know yours might be a bit better than others? Would they expect you to process the images, or could you just shoot in JPEG?

I can see where Lindsay and the others talk about family dynamics. In certain circles, it works. You could offer to do something and people are just grateful for your help. Then there are those who are sweetness and light to your face at the start and then start backstabbing when you don't meet their expectations. People are strange, and you can't always predict their reactions to something.

My cousin attended my sister's wedding. He brought his D80 along with him and took some photos. We already had two pro togs (one for each side) but his images were more candid because he was just taking "snapshots". No processing, SOOC and they were good. Not pro-quality but sister loved the photos and was grateful for them. There was no expectation for my cousin to bring his camera or to take photos or even to share them.
 
Andrew Davies Photography said:
Sorry but get sick of hearing this on here , excuses of why people are doing there first weddings for people who can obviously afford to pay the going rate, if you do it you are taking money from photographers pockets its a simple as that. If that's what you want to do and you want to be a wedding tog then charge them. I started out with a relatives wedding and they paid me as like you I was already of a certain standard. You have invested your time and effort and money in your photography DO NOT just give it away.
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You must be real fun a family get togethers.
 
Its fairly customary with Asian weddings for them to have one photographer follow the bride and one the groom throughout the day and sometimes days , and not unusual for the couple to employ different companies and styles. Not unusual when attending Asian weddings to find a whole team of other photographers & videographers in fact !
 
Andrew Davies Photography said:
Its fairly customary with Asian weddings for them to have one photographer follow the bride and one the groom throughout the day and sometimes days , and not unusual for the couple to employ different companies and styles. Not unusual when attending Asian weddings to find a whole team of other photographers & videographers in fact !
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Interesting, thanks.

as an aside, follow the groom.. THE HORROR!! I was much happier when the photographer packed up for the day :)
 
So, how did it go? Please let us know! Sorry if I have missed a decision. Been away and in midst of friend's terminal illness. Ttfn
 
Chipper I think this thread deserved your bump : hope the OP can let us know how/if it went ...
 
I too would like to know the outcome so lets keep bumping it up to the top :)
 
Some pros need to learn to suck it up. As someone else said, if you make your money from an extremely common hobby you'll need to accept that occasionally people are going to do your job for free. If you followed some of the absurd logic in this thread to its natural conclusions then giving your friends a lift to the airport or something is immorally stealing business from taxi drivers.

Yes, there's a sensible conversation to be had about managing expectations, what are the consequences if something goes wrong and whether you want to "work" at your brother's big day. But nobody has the answers to those considerations except the people directly involved. So, basically, any amateur should do a wedding for free if they want to and they're comfortable with the expectations. You don't have any moral responsibility to protect some strangers' incomes if you feel like doing family a favour. That's for the pros to worry about privately; and they need to adapt to the state of the market, not expect everyone else to prop it up artificially. It's not for you to worry about.

From some of the condescending replies on here you'd think the OP was some kind of idiot who is incapable of understandarding the dynamics of his own family.
 
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This only leaves us to assume that the wedding went all wrong and there is now a family fued. And the bride ran off with the photographer.
 
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