Uni, decisions decisions...

[big soft moose]

The other thing to mention is that even without fees uni is expensive - once you've added rent, and beer, and food, and beer, and books, and beer, and taking girls out, and beer, and travelling backwards and forwards to home , and did I mention beer ... its a damn lot of cash

I'm not going to argue whether its worth it or not if you really want to do it but at least consider what else you could do with that kind of money which might be as or more beneficial to a career in photography. (for example you could spend the next four years focussing full time on photography by actually doing whatever kind interests you, and trying to make a living from it)

That aside the pratical considerations are that as far as falmouth goes its not really a university town so most of the bars, clubs, resteraunts etc etc are orientated towards tourism not students and costs are therefore high - which means that if you don't live on campus (I dont know what the halls accom is like but its not likely to be enough for everyone) living costs are going to also be high.

Public transport links suck and you arent likely to be able to run a car

and train travel back to glasgow will be very very expensive - like well over a tonne a trip evenwith a student rail card.

IMO unless the falmouth course is considerably better you'd be better off going somewhere closer to home - not least because that will leave you more money to spend on girls, and beer (or even camera equipment if you really must)

 

[itsdavedotnet]

Anyone got any first hand experience of this course? I was just having a look at their website and it sounds pretty good and cheap compared to university.

A member on here is on it right now. Meant to be a great course.


Simple solution to trains costing a lot of money is not to go home much home sucks compared to being at uni anyway...

 

[EMA747]

A member on here is on it right now. Meant to be a great course.


Simple solution to trains costing a lot of money is not to go home much home sucks compared to being at uni anyway...

Who is it that's on the course? I might send them a pm and get the lowdown.

 

[big soft moose]

Simple solution to trains costing a lot of money is not to go home much home sucks compared to being at uni anyway...

Which in turn means you have to pay rent through the summer holiday , and have to feed yourself in all breaks etc - which all costs money (more money than the train fare)

 

[specialman]

Saw this thread the other day but have only just got round to replying.

I can't help you with regard to the universities you've highlighted, but here's how I see the whole photography degree thingy....

I left college after training to be a graphic designer with designs (no pun intended) on being a wildlife illustrator. I did the first semester at Carmarthen College (now West Wales College of the Arts) but found the course to not be what I'd imagined. Anyway, source material was either drawing from live subjects like owls and buzzards in class, or taking shots out in the field to refer back to. I like the photography so when I'd made the decision to leave the course, I was offered to continue my HND doing photography - best thing I ever did.

Carmarthen wasn't the most affluent or high-spec of colleges; we had an E6 machine and print area, and four or five B&W dev and print stations, plus two massive studios, but it was convenient and I liked the low-pressure feel of it. The lecturers were cool and the technician called Colin was awesome in terms of blowing our young minds with info and egging us on to try new stuff. He taught me a lot about studio work, which I am eternally indebted to him for.

Anyway, I finished my HND happy, full of ideas and skills and did a one-year option to get my BA Hons, which I eventually passed with a 2:2 after spending three months playing Grand Turismo and not doing much one semester. Anyway, three years of uni, two qualifications earned.

I left uni in the summer of 2000 wanting to be a photographer but not knowing how to ply my trade. So I got a job as a web designer and then as a sub-editor/designer at a newspaper. That took me through to February 2001.

I applied for a job at a publishing house that deals with fishing and shooting mags (fishing was always a passion of mine) and having that degree got me the job instantly. I had good english grades from school, which helped, but the fact I could use a camera and be trusted to go out and get a shoot without training was a massive bonus for my employer. I would never have got the job without the photography degree, albeit a 'drinker's degree'.

Anyway, nearly 11 years later I have worked across four magazines in various editorial positions (with six years as an editor of a national magazine), been all sorts of places and met all sorts of people, and now I am the head of photography. I love my job, it's often thankless, but I get to embrace two passions EVERY single working day. Without a degree I cannot imagine ever having been in this position.

Admittedly, I was lucky that I got into university education while local government grants were readily available and when the SLC was giving out so-so amounts but with no obligation to pay back until I was earning mega-money. I paid my student loan off two years ago. These days the financial burden is much greater and is a massive consideration, something that I am fortunate I never had to be as aware of as today's students have to be.

University living was great and it definitely helped me broaden my outlook on life, and having to think for myself was the start of getting to know what I wanted to do. Many people ay that work experience is invaluable and will teach you infinitely more than the theory that is often associated with education institutions, but I think they play equal parts.

Dismissing university as simply being a financial ball & chain is not something I subscribe to - you seem to have your mind made up and that's good.

My course was never going to make me a ready-made photographer ready to step out into the world and earn me money as an individual, but it lit the fire and gave me enough to go on. It was all film-based too - today's digital technology is, I'm sure, going to help speed up the learning process massively and allow you to embrace more technique in a shorter space of time.

If/when you go, you will have to put your soul into it but it will be the best thing you ever do

 

[itsdavedotnet]

Fantastic post by Pat there.

going to help speed up the learning process massively

In part. In other ways, there's more stuff to learn - today's photo students are going to work a lot in motion as well as stills too, for example, and the bottom bar is raised so, so much higher.

 

[EMA747]

Interesting post Pat. Do you think it would have worked out the same though if you were coming out of university now with little jobs on offer at all let alone in a relevant field?

 

[DemiLion]

Finally, Neil Turner (of the BPPA and a very well-respected photojournalist) has recently started a Photojournalism course in Bournemouth.

http://uptospeedjournalism.co.uk/

It's an NCTJ accredited course, which is still widely recognised as the benchmark for photographers, and since the demise of Norton College, Sheffield and the Paul Delmar run course (which used to be the daddy of courses) it's probably the best bet for that route.

I'm at Bournemouth and Sheffield is still running under the guidance of Rob Rathbone.

I can't really comment fully on the course at the moment, but the one thing that I would say is that, if you are a school leaver, it would certainly be worth considering a one year photography foundation degree to shore up your skills first. The age range on our course is mid twenties to mid forties, whereas Sheffield is slightly younger (the youngest being 24 I believe).

 

[Vic]

Excellent post Pat.

University is what the student makes of it I think. You have 3-4 years to explore your practice, make contacts, read, gain work experience and figure out what they want to do when they leave. If you coast by then no you aren't going to get anything from your degree.

I swear by my degree so far, if I didn't go to university then I wouldn't be going down the roads I am and I wouldn't have created the projects I have.

It isn't for everyone, there are many different avenues for going into photography but a degree is a very worthwhile one.

Regarding photojournalism, some of the most innovative ones I have came across have degrees in anthropology or history, which to me is more important when representing other cultures.

 

[specialman]

Fantastic post by Pat there.

In part. In other ways, there's more stuff to learn - today's photo students are going to work a lot in motion as well as stills too, for example, and the bottom bar is raised so, so much higher.

Without doubt. We just focussed on devving, printing, a bit of digital conversion into Photoshop, plus the skill set of location and studio photography. These days I think the kids going into these courses (like the OP) are embracing more of what they see linked into photography, with film/video being one that sits hand in hand, especially with the number of DSLRs that feature HD video. I suppose I look at things as being part of the end of traditional (silver halide) film-based teaching. These days there is so much more on offer....

Interesting post Pat. Do you think it would have worked out the same though if you were coming out of university now with little jobs on offer at all let alone in a relevant field?

Hey, I really don't know. I never knew there was a job to be had in publishing until I saw the advert - it never crossed my mind before to be working in editorial. It was definitely one of those 'right place, right time' opportunities but I stand by what I've said; without my qualifications I wouldn't have been anywhere near as tempting a prospect because I it would have required training. We've never had any trained photographers come into my company since. Some guys like photography a lot but none are qualified and it's meant that we've had to train a lot of people, which has taken a lot of time.

 

[retrogamer1990]

Don't want to rain on your parade but I wouldn't choose photography to do at uni, there's quite a few I know on the course here at Huddersfield Uni and they wind up not enjoying it. I believe when you HAVE to go out and take a photo within a set of parameters or to a brief it kind of takes the...(for want of a better word) soul out of the experience

edit: that's just my personal attitude towards photography coming through really, feel free to ignore

 

[Alastair]

University College Falmouth - looks great, good set-up, good lecturers, good place, students' work each year is all very different. Seems like they let you develop your own style more than a lot of places, but it's as far away as I could possibly get from Glasgow without leaving the UK. Fees aren't a massive issue.

Have you considered that? Leaving the UK? There are a lot of EU universities offering degrees taught in English. A very good friend and professional photographer studied in either Bonn or Berlin (typical, she's taken down the bio on her website to update and I can't remember which it was) and guest lecturers on the course included Martin Parr and several other well known names.

However, I believe she studied it as a masters degree. This is a very effective option. Get out, get some experience. Build up some cash reserves and a better idea of where you want to go in life. Then throw yourself into an intense 12-24 months of a masters degree. You don't need an undergraduate degree to do a masters, although you will need good general grades from school and you'll need to demonstrate capability to study (possibly via a short access course).

With university fees and the economy the way they are now, if I was leaving school now I would give very serious consideration to not going to university. I'd give very serious thought to taking myself out of the UK, learning a langauage or two and building up a variety of experiences and skills. Then look to take a masters aged about thirty if I wanted to.

 

[DemiLion]

Don't want to rain on your parade but I wouldn't choose photography to do at uni, there's quite a few I know on the course here at Huddersfield Uni and they wind up not enjoying it. I believe when you HAVE to go out and take a photo within a set of parameters or to a brief it kind of takes the...(for want of a better word) soul out of the experience

edit: that's just my personal attitude towards photography coming through really, feel free to ignore

I'm going to disagree with two of your points:
Firstly just because one specific university has disappointed students, you shouldn't lump all courses into the same basket.
Secondly, being set a challenging assignment isn't dull at all if it's done properly; it's an adrenaline buzz.

 

[Disphotic]

This is just based on my experiences, but never underestimate the value of a very different skill to the thing you intend to go into.

Photography was just a bit of a hobby at school, I didn't study it and so I studied history at university as a stopgap choice while I decided what to do with my life. Came out and did a couple of really promising jobs but neither things I could see myself sticking with long term. I'd got increasingly interested in documentary photography over the last few years and so I applied for the MA in Photojournalism and Documentary Photography at the London College of Communication. It's a competitive course, and my photos could be better so I was pretty doubtful about getting a place on it but I thought it better to try than just end up wondering about it later.

At my interview I got the impression the thing they were actually least interested in was my photography, they were more interested in the other aspects of my personality and background, particularly the fact that I write a photography blog. My interviewer told me that they get quite a few applications from people who are just photographers, but the way journalism is changing now you need to be able to do more than just take pictures. You also need to approach your subjects differently to the way journalists did in the past. You can't just turn up at an event, take a few pictures of dying people and consider that covering the story. You need to really get under the skin of your subject. He cited the example of Tim Hetherington, the journalist killed in Libiya a few months ago. He was an award winning photographer, but he was also an oscar nominated film maker, and frequently wrote excellent articles.

Anyway long story short they offered me a place starting in January, I'm guessing probably not for my photo skillz.

Looked at another way, if in the end if photography dosen't work out you have something else to fall back on. Don't put all your eggs in one basket sort of thing. Why not turn just one of those application places over to something totally unrelated?

 

[Byker28i]

Don't want to rain on your parade but I wouldn't choose photography to do at uni, there's quite a few I know on the course here at Huddersfield Uni and they wind up not enjoying it. I believe when you HAVE to go out and take a photo within a set of parameters or to a brief it kind of takes the...(for want of a better word) soul out of the experience

edit: that's just my personal attitude towards photography coming through really, feel free to ignore

Nope. I have to do that for my Oca course and it's no difference to working with clients. They ask for something specific and you supply. How you supply it is down to you. There's always ways of lighting, angle etc to make it interesting, never mind processing in your style.

 

[Byker28i]

My only other comment is to look at the course content. I've seen the work of some students and the course seems more about contemporary art, using photographs as the medium. If that's your thing then fine, but I dont understand that form where the 500-1000 words accompanying the photo to describe it are more importent than the photo itself.

Lastly, fees against no fees? Speaking from a parents side, Stay in Scotland and reduce your future debts (or the debts of your parents). As mentioned its not just the fees but the living expenses add up. Also you'll be wanting your parents to cart your stuff to and from your accommodation every holiday, or certainly at the start and end of every year, so different ends of the country make it difficult and expensive.

BUT, and the big but, all the above are considerations. Course content and tutors must be your first consideration, location second.

 

[jon ryan]

I believe when you HAVE to go out and take a photo within a set of parameters or to a brief it kind of takes the...(for want of a better word) soul out of the experience

edit: that's just my personal attitude towards photography coming through really, feel free to ignore

HAVE to go out and take a photo...

This is what *professionals* do. You are shooting for a client, not your self, whether it's a rugby match in driving sleet and 20 feet of visibility, being presented with a screaming, snot covered child and being expected to make it look human, or a size 24 bride who wants to look thin. You can't decide not to bother because there's something good on the telly, or it's raining.

Of course you can become a landscape photographer, which anyone can do. You only have to point your camera at a nice view, and bingo. Easy peasy. But, because `anybody can do it` the landscape snappers who can actually make a living at it have to be bloody brilliant...

 

[ShoeQueen]

I know I probably will never earn much from photography and I'm perfectly happy with that. Money has never been a big part of my motivation. The way I see it is that I can spend the next 4 years focusing full time on photography without having to worry too much about the financial aspect, or I can spend it doing something I have little or no interest in & fail at getting a job with that as well.

Totally understand where you are coming from as that has been my motivation in my study and career choices. I've never earned much money but I've had some fantastic job satisfaction over the years, doing things I love and helping others too (working for charities etc.) If you're driven by passion instead of money, your life does take a different direction. Go for it and I hope you find the right course for you and have great time delving into a subject that fascinates you.

 

[specialman]

Totally agree with what Jon Ryan is saying about Retrogamer's response:

I hated the whole art history side of the course, and didn't much rate the business studies sector much, but the rest of it was a blast. I got to try new stuff, find out things by myself, go to seminars that gave me a hint of what it was like to be a jobbing pro. Then in the final year I got to run a project all by myself, which si when your conceptual, practical and time-keeping skills come into play. All the while, you're taking photos because you want to better yourself and get the best grade, not because you're forced to.

Same as in my job. I won't lie and say every single shoot is a buzz - I absolutely loathe taking photos of bait against white backgrounds, and being out on a boat doing sea fishing is a close second - but I get the job done nonetheless because that is what I am being commissioned to do by the relevant editors. I can't pick and choose, I just have to impart my own skill and creativity into the shoot to give the best result.

 

[archangel]

Have you looked at University of Westminister.......My daughter is doing contempory media which cover all aspects of media from production to photography, and as it is split into different modular thingys you only do the ones that you want.....therfore not only can you get a degree for studying photography, you can also get qualified in pre and post production and learn about processing as well...she loves it.

 

[Joenail]

The other thing to mention is that even without fees uni is expensive - once you've added rent, and beer, and food, and beer, and books, and beer, and taking girls out, and beer, and travelling backwards and forwards to home , and did I mention beer ... its a damn lot of cash

I'm not going to argue whether its worth it or not if you really want to do it but at least consider what else you could do with that kind of money which might be as or more beneficial to a career in photography. (for example you could spend the next four years focussing full time on photography by actually doing whatever kind interests you, and trying to make a living from it)

That aside the pratical considerations are that as far as falmouth goes its not really a university town so most of the bars, clubs, resteraunts etc etc are orientated towards tourism not students and costs are therefore high - which means that if you don't live on campus (I dont know what the halls accom is like but its not likely to be enough for everyone) living costs are going to also be high.

Public transport links suck and you arent likely to be able to run a car

and train travel back to glasgow will be very very expensive - like well over a tonne a trip evenwith a student rail card.

IMO unless the falmouth course is considerably better you'd be better off going somewhere closer to home - not least because that will leave you more money to spend on girls, and beer (or even camera equipment if you really must)

I'm not too worried about the money side of things. A good course is far more important than some extra cash for beer. I'm not sure exactly what Falmouth uni is like (especially as I haven't been to see it yet), but it looks a f***load better than what anything in Scotland has to offer. It's just deciding whether or not it's worth it.

Don't want to rain on your parade but I wouldn't choose photography to do at uni, there's quite a few I know on the course here at Huddersfield Uni and they wind up not enjoying it.

Maybe they shouldn't be at Huddersfield then!

I believe when you HAVE to go out and take a photo within a set of parameters or to a brief it kind of takes the...(for want of a better word) soul out of the experience.

This is just based on my experiences, but never underestimate the value of a very different skill to the thing you intend to go into.

Photography was just a bit of a hobby at school, I didn't study it and so I studied history at university as a stopgap choice while I decided what to do with my life. Came out and did a couple of really promising jobs but neither things I could see myself sticking with long term. I'd got increasingly interested in documentary photography over the last few years and so I applied for the MA in Photojournalism and Documentary Photography at the London College of Communication. It's a competitive course, and my photos could be better so I was pretty doubtful about getting a place on it but I thought it better to try than just end up wondering about it later.

At my interview I got the impression the thing they were actually least interested in was my photography, they were more interested in the other aspects of my personality and background, particularly the fact that I write a photography blog. My interviewer told me that they get quite a few applications from people who are just photographers, but the way journalism is changing now you need to be able to do more than just take pictures. You also need to approach your subjects differently to the way journalists did in the past. You can't just turn up at an event, take a few pictures of dying people and consider that covering the story. You need to really get under the skin of your subject. He cited the example of Tim Hetherington, the journalist killed in Libiya a few months ago. He was an award winning photographer, but he was also an oscar nominated film maker, and frequently wrote excellent articles.

Anyway long story short they offered me a place starting in January, I'm guessing probably not for my photo skillz.

Looked at another way, if in the end if photography dosen't work out you have something else to fall back on. Don't put all your eggs in one basket sort of thing. Why not turn just one of those application places over to something totally unrelated?

That's exactly what I've been thinking & it's the thing that is making me consider not studying photography - just keeping it as an 'escape from life' type thing. Problem is, I have no qualifications from school at all, just 3 years at college (one in computing & digital media & 2 in graphic design) so the only thing I can really do is photography which I have a portfolio in & am good at (I hope!) or graphic design, which I've already decided is not for me. I'd absolutely love to do sociology or philosophy, but the whole 'work from 9-5 wearing a suit & come back, make dinner, watch telly, sleep & repeat' thing really puts me off.

 

[Joenail]

Have you looked at University of Westminister.......My daughter is doing contempory media which cover all aspects of media from production to photography, and as it is split into different modular thingys you only do the ones that you want.....therfore not only can you get a degree for studying photography, you can also get qualified in pre and post production and learn about processing as well...she loves it.

Looking at it now, cheers!

 

[Joenail]

Some really helpful stuff here people, loads of things I didn't even consider!

Sorry if I haven't replied to some comments, but that doesn't mean I didn't read it

 

[Disphotic]

That's exactly what I've been thinking & it's the thing that is making me consider not studying photography - just keeping it as an 'escape from life' type thing. Problem is, I have no qualifications from school at all, just 3 years at college (one in computing & digital media & 2 in graphic design) so the only thing I can really do is photography which I have a portfolio in & am good at (I hope!) or graphic design, which I've already decided is not for me. I'd absolutely love to do sociology or philosophy, but the whole 'work from 9-5 wearing a suit & come back, make dinner, watch telly, sleep & repeat' thing really puts me off.

Similar but pretty much the opposite problem to me then, I had no photography qualifications even though I kind've felt that was what I wanted to do.

But ok say you go down the photography degree path, if its anything like any other arts degree you'll have a lot of free time outside the course. Besides spending some of it in the pub (which I strongly advise) identify something else you're interested in and which could be useful down the line in relation to photography and really work at it. Whether it be graphic design, writing, video or something else, just find something and focus on it.

In an arena like journalism determination counts alot more than qualifications, and teaching yourself to do something well is something people still respect.

 

[Joenail]

I'm starting to thnk I should forget going to uni & just f*** off in a caravan for a year or 2, focus on music & do photography in my spare time. Seems that I'd make more money doing that

 

[Alastair]

I'm starting to thnk I should forget going to uni & just f*** off in a caravan for a year or 2, focus on music & do photography in my spare time. Seems that I'd make more money doing that

With hindsight, and putting myself back to your age/position in the current economy.. Facing a potential £20k of debt to study, minimal commitments, the world ahead of me.. whilst I wouldn't phrase it quite the way you have, it's something to consider. But you do need to set yourself a goal to be able at the end of it to demonstrate what you've done. Document your travels in a blog, explore new places and produce a body of work at the end of it (both musically and photographically).

If you're in the position of not having school qualifications, this can be a problem but you can always polish up the grades in English/Maths at evening classes later. It's functional language and number skills that most people look for. Building up a body of appropriate demonstratable experience can be just as valuable (if you present it correctly).

 

[Photodiva]

Dear Joe
Perhaps its old-fashioned, but the fact that you have 'no qualifications' from school or 3 years at college is surely going to blight any attempt to get a job that pays enough to make it worth while. Sounds like you didn't enjoy school much. If you didn't do the necessary work at school when you 'had to', its going to be much harder at uni when, if you don't hand in work, the tutors aren't going to chase you for it, it will just be less for them to mark.

You seem to write quite articulately, so I'd suggest in the absence of any other option, thinking about getting some 'basic' language/numeracy quals as Alastair suggests. Then may be consider some VSO work? Might give you some opportunities for photojournalism and gain you valuable experience?

 

[POAH]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swDpWNKB5Co">YouTube Link</a>

Seriously, get a real degree and study photography on the side. You'll thank me later on in life.

ive got 3 and work part time in sainsburys lol

 

[Joenail]

Dear Joe
Perhaps its old-fashioned, but the fact that you have 'no qualifications' from school or 3 years at college is surely going to blight any attempt to get a job that pays enough to make it worth while. Sounds like you didn't enjoy school much. If you didn't do the necessary work at school when you 'had to', its going to be much harder at uni when, if you don't hand in work, the tutors aren't going to chase you for it, it will just be less for them to mark.

You seem to write quite articulately, so I'd suggest in the absence of any other option, thinking about getting some 'basic' language/numeracy quals as Alastair suggests. Then may be consider some VSO work? Might give you some opportunities for photojournalism and gain you valuable experience?

With hindsight, and putting myself back to your age/position in the current economy.. Facing a potential £20k of debt to study, minimal commitments, the world ahead of me.. whilst I wouldn't phrase it quite the way you have, it's something to consider. But you do need to set yourself a goal to be able at the end of it to demonstrate what you've done. Document your travels in a blog, explore new places and produce a body of work at the end of it (both musically and photographically).

If you're in the position of not having school qualifications, this can be a problem but you can always polish up the grades in English/Maths at evening classes later. It's functional language and number skills that most people look for. Building up a body of appropriate demonstratable experience can be just as valuable (if you present it correctly).

It's only school that I have no qualifications from, not college. I've been absolutely fine at college with handing in work on time, etc, so that won't be a problem (especially with photography). School was horrible for me - the people in it, the way the teaching works, I hated pretty much everything about it.


I've thought about doing higher english/maths in an evening course of something, but I don't need it. If I couldn't string a simple sentence together then it'd be different, but I'd be studying things I know for little reason. I already have enough qualifications (or UCAS points) to get to the interview stage of uni & I'm pretty confident in my portfolio. I've looked at some voluntary work abroad, mainly Global Xchange (the only one I could find that you don't have to pay for), and while this would be a perfect chance to produce a body of work in documentary photography/photojournalism, their programmes are for a minimum of 6 months - too long for me to be away.

Thanks for the advice though, I'll definitely keep it in mind

-J

 

[Alastair]

It's only school that I have no qualifications from, not college. I've been absolutely fine at college with handing in work on time, etc, so that won't be a problem (especially with photography). School was horrible for me - the people in it, the way the teaching works, I hated pretty much everything about it.


I've thought about doing higher english/maths in an evening course of something, but I don't need it. If I couldn't string a simple sentence together then it'd be different, but I'd be studying things I know for little reason.

If you're even remotely considering journalism or photojournalism you would really be better off with an English higher. Everything written about journalism and photography these days emphasises that taking pictures is not enough, you have to be able to do much more - including writing the story. If you can find a higher in English Language that would help sell you ability to string a sentance with the correct grammer, punctuation and spelling. I'm not saying you can't do that, but remember that wherever you go the first person that reads your CV does not want to give you a job. An English higher would reduce the likelihood of being rejected too early.

 

[Joenail]

If you're even remotely considering journalism or photojournalism you would really be better off with an English higher. Everything written about journalism and photography these days emphasises that taking pictures is not enough, you have to be able to do much more - including writing the story. If you can find a higher in English Language that would help sell you ability to string a sentance with the correct grammer, punctuation and spelling. I'm not saying you can't do that, but remember that wherever you go the first person that reads your CV does not want to give you a job. An English higher would reduce the likelihood of being rejected too early.

Hmm, you make a good point Alastair
It's definitely something to consider before I go out looking for employment. I can always do it alongside uni if need be, but surely having a photojournalism degree kind of implies the ability to write.

I need to do a lot more thinking

 

[Vic]

Hmm, you make a good point Alastair
It's definitely something to consider before I go out looking for employment. I can always do it alongside uni if need be, but surely having a photojournalism degree kind of implies the ability to write.

I need to do a lot more thinking

Most of my course and career aim involves lots of writing. I don't have higher english however I did a lot of self study to improve my writing skills, also Universities will have learning support tools and nightclasses for academic writing. I really wouldn't worry too much about getting a higher, maybe just start writing about a few artists you like and do some comparisons, etc to get you practice.

 

[Alastair]

Hmm, you make a good point Alastair
It's definitely something to consider before I go out looking for employment. I can always do it alongside uni if need be, but surely having a photojournalism degree kind of implies the ability to write.

I need to do a lot more thinking

I'm sure I've read that far more succesful journalists have degrees in English, History or Politics than have a degree in Journalism or Media Studies (I'm not sure on the situation regarding photojournalism). If you want to go the academic route and spend the money on a degree (and it's a lot of money and commitment), I'd make sure it is the right path to what you want to do. You've already started to think about this by looking at the career progression success of the various degree awarding institutions.

I went to Uni, and I would struggle to justify whether or not a degree is worth £20k+ of debt. If anything, what I gained most from five years of study came not from the academic work but from the experiences I took. Most importantly getting myself on an exchange programme to Germany for three months. With a bit less inertia, I could have got the benefit that gave me in much less time by just forcing myself to uproot and place myself into an unfamiliar and foreign environment and see where it took me.

80% of life is about relationships and who you meet. 20% is qualifications and skills. University is one way of meeting the people that can help you succeed in what you want to do, but there are others.


Note, unless this isn't clear.. all of the above is personal opinion. You will have to make your own choices. The positive thing is that you're asking yourself the right questions. Get as many different answers as possible. Only get worried when everyone is telling you the same thing.. ..

 

[jon ryan]

Just spoken to a couple of people at the local paper I do some work for. Consensus is that the more variety you can offer, the better your chances. Today, a journo who can write, take photos, take video, knows web management (this is growing perhaps faster than any other area of local press importance) will stand the best chance. Whatever you go in with, you are likely to be required to take the NCTJ exams if you plan to become a fully fledged journo. First of these is the NCE, which you may have to fund yourself. I've been out of it for quite a while, so am not sure what current requirements are.

But I do remember that the last interview panel I was on saw a short-list of six (from around 140 applicants) for a staff photographer post. None of the final six had a photography degree.

 

[DemiLion]

NCEs are the junior to senior exams. NCTJ prelims are the ones that come at the end of the standard attendance courses.

 

[jon ryan]

NCEs are the junior to senior exams. NCTJ prelims are the ones that come at the end of the standard attendance courses.

Damn! My bad - thanks for pointing it out. This points up why I am a lowly photographer, not a real journalist

 

[Joenail]

Just spoken to a couple of people at the local paper I do some work for. Consensus is that the more variety you can offer, the better your chances. Today, a journo who can write, take photos, take video, knows web management (this is growing perhaps faster than any other area of local press importance) will stand the best chance. Whatever you go in with, you are likely to be required to take the NCTJ exams if you plan to become a fully fledged journo. First of these is the NCE, which you may have to fund yourself. I've been out of it for quite a while, so am not sure what current requirements are.

But I do remember that the last interview panel I was on saw a short-list of six (from around 140 applicants) for a staff photographer post. None of the final six had a photography degree.

Thanks for that, really helpful info there.
Just to be clear though, I have little to no interest in becoming a journalist journalist, if you know what I mean, just photography, whether it's photojournalism, reportage, editorial or documentary (there are more, of course, but these are the main four).


This thread is really helping me decide what to do, especially because of how interestingly different each person's opinion is on the matter. I know I have to make my own decisions, but I'm just gathering as much advice as possible over the next few weeks so I can be sure I've made the right choice, whatever that may be.

So thanks folks. Who knew a bunch of photographers could be so helpful

 

[EMA747]

Joe if you are undecided maybe it's best to take another year to decide rather than rushing it. I stated a degree which was a rushed decision and it landed me with debt and no degree as it really wasn't for me in the end.


Maybe we should have a pinned thread about ways to get started that don't require going to university.

 

[jon ryan]

Thanks for that, really helpful info there.
Just to be clear though, I have little to no interest in becoming a journalist journalist, if you know what I mean, just photography, whether it's photojournalism, reportage, editorial or documentary (there are more, of course, but these are the main four).


This thread is really helping me decide what to do, especially because of how interestingly different each person's opinion is on the matter. I know I have to make my own decisions, but I'm just gathering as much advice as possible over the next few weeks so I can be sure I've made the right choice, whatever that may be.

So thanks folks. Who knew a bunch of photographers could be so helpful

The point I was making - rather badly - is that the various disciplines are becoming more blurred. Today you have to be able to multi-task, or at least if you can do so, your chances of employment in any area of media will be enhanced. None of us know what may be required in a few years, so keeping your options and skills as broad as possible can only help.

 

[DemiLion]

The point I was making - rather badly - is that the various disciplines are becoming more blurred. Today you have to be able to multi-task, or at least if you can do so, your chances of employment in any area of media will be enhanced. None of us know what may be required in a few years, so keeping your options and skills as broad as possible can only help.

This ^.

If you can't write good IPTC captions as an absolute minimum then you are shooting yourself not just in the foot, but in the head. It's the current hot topic.

Being able to provide 150-200 word is preferable, and the ability to capture and edit video is a must.

There's no such thing as just a photographer any more when you are starting out.