Unanswered threads.

[Pookeyhead]

Again i'm a northerner

So am I. Not sure what that has to do with anything.

If a professional posts up something as terrible as the example you gave, then yes, they will opening themselves up to some pretty harsh criticism.. but if you ask me, so would anyone. Having someone's head poking into the frame and not realising it's a serious mistake is not something even a rank beginner should be doing. You don't need to be a photographer to realise that.

this all goes back to what i posted earlier in creating a extra profile option to indicate what you beleive your own experience is. thus when other members aim to offer advice they have an idea of the experience of the member which in turn can focus the level of advice needed.

It relies on people accurately rating themselves though. What you reckon the chances of that happening are? The guy who took the shot above would no doubt rate himself as a professional if that was a working wedding photographer who took it.

 

[Gr8Shot]

Some people have spent more time on here justifying why they have no time to comment on others photos than they have bothered to spend in the last month commenting and helping others.

 

[Gr8Shot]

So am I. Not sure what that has to do with anything.

It relies on people accurately rating themselves though. What you reckon the chances of that happening are? The guy who took the shot above would no doubt rate himself as a professional if that was a working wedding photographer who took it.

It does indeed, but it is a starting point and to that end if someone who rated themselvesas a pro wedding photographer on here posted that, what would you comment?

 

[ernesto]

Some people have spent more time on here justifying why they have no time to comment on others photos than they have bothered to spend in the last month commenting and helping others.

Yeah, probably because I am not a northerner I would think.

 

[JohnN]

Some people have spent more time on here justifying why they have no time to comment on others photos than they have bothered to spend in the last month commenting and helping others.

lol, so true

PS: I'm a northerner.... (although I don't get the relevance much either apart from that sometimes were perceived as blunt)

 

[Pookeyhead]

Some people have spent more time on here justifying why they have no time to comment on others photos than they have bothered to spend in the last month commenting and helping others.

I'm sure some have... but how they use the forums is up to them, surely? Who are you (or anyone else) to judge them for that?

It does indeed, but it is a starting point and to that end if someone who rated themselvesas a pro wedding photographer on here posted that, what would you comment?

I'd do what I normally do when offering critique. I'd explain what I thought was wrong, and offer solutions. I would however, probably ask whether the photographer had any moral issues with charging customers for such an image if it was a professional.

 

[Gr8Shot]

I'm sure some have... but how they use the forums is up to them, surely? Who are you (or anyone else) to judge them for that?
.

may i draw your attention to the forum rules section

Everyone likes getting comments on pictures they have posted. Therefore we like all members to comment on others photos too.
Even if you are a beginner you can still reply to photo sharing threads and tell them what you do or don't like about the pictures. You will find that the more you look at others pictures, and try to understand what you do and dont like, this will help improve your own photography too!. Everyone is here to enjoy their photography, and everyone has an opinion on whether they like a photo and why. It does not matter if you are a beginner or a professional, your opinion matters.
So please take a few moments to comment on others photos, offering your opinion. Everyone commenting on each others photos is what makes this section.

 

[Pookeyhead]

Everyone likes getting comments on pictures they have posted. Therefore we like all members to comment on others photos too.
Even if you are a beginner you can still reply to photo sharing threads and tell them what you do or don't like about the pictures. You will find that the more you look at others pictures, and try to understand what you do and dont like, this will help improve your own photography too!. Everyone is here to enjoy their photography, and everyone has an opinion on whether they like a photo and why. It does not matter if you are a beginner or a professional, your opinion matters.
So please take a few moments to comment on others photos, offering your opinion. Everyone commenting on each others photos is what makes this section.

They're not general forum rules though.. they're for that section, surely.


[edit]

You pulled that from Helpful Hints and Etiquette... not rules. Just read the "rules" and nowhere does it say you have to give crit. It would be stupid to have that as a rule, as some people are patently just incapable of giving useful crit.

 

[Gr8Shot]

Etiquette

from the oxford dictionary

the customary code of polite behaviour in society or among members of a particular profession or group

so not its not a rule

 

[Pookeyhead]

What makes you think you need to post the dictionary definition? Only pedants do that in arguments. We're all grown ups... we know what it means.

There's nothing in the rules to suggest you can get banned or suspended for not offering critique... and as I said... not everyone comes in here for that, so please stop ramming your opinions down everyone's throat. The forum is many things, to many people. Some people have no interest in commenting on other people's work... why should they be made to feel like they're not pulling their weight? They are probably contributing to other threads and being useful in other ways.

 

[Gr8Shot]

so please stop ramming your opinions down everyone's throat

AS oppsoed to what you are doing??????????????

i think if you read back on your own comments you've been pretty forthright in your opinions.....

 

[gramps]

It doesn't need a rule to give crit on a photography forum with a Feedback section specifically provided for that purpose.
Clearly the forum encourages the giving of feedback and all members should endeavor to give some feedback from time to time, according to their ability, in order to encourage others.
It's all part of the 'give and take' of a forum like this ... or at least it should be.

 

[Gr8Shot]

David
What does confuse me is, i notice you do take the time to offer some good advice. So why dont you think others should make the same effort?
Just curious....

 

[Gr8Shot]

It doesn't need a rule to give crit on a photography forum with a Feedback section specifically provided for that purpose.
Clearly the forum encourages the giving of feedback and all members should endeavor to give some feedback from time to time, according to their ability, in order to encourage others.
It's all part of the 'give and take' of a forum like this ... or at least it should be.

but unfortunately some people are all take........

 

[Pookeyhead]

David
What does confuse me is, i notice you do take the time to offer some good advice. So why dont you think others should make the same effort?
Just curious....

Because it's a free choice. What does confuse me, is why should anyone be forced to do it if they don't want to? If they don't want to, they'll probably be crap at it anyway. There's nothing worse than poor crit by people who have no idea what they're talking about. It would be better if they said nothing.

 

[Gr8Shot]

Because it's a free choice. What does confuse me, is why should anyone be forced to do it if they don't want to? If they don't want to, they'll probably be crap at it anyway. There's nothing worse than poor crit by people who have no idea what they're talking about. It would be better if they said nothing.

i can understand that but there are thousands of members and often posts get 0 or 1 replies, i bet if you could see views they'd be in the 100's.

So a balance or happy medium should be encouraged. basically as OP requested.

 

[Phil V]

As a general rule, the critique sections hold no interest to me. The last time I got involved in a thread like this someone turned that statement into me saying that I had no desire to be helpful to anyone.

Surely if people are free to attack people in that way, then we're all free to take part in (or choose not to) any part of the forum.

What I know about wildlife photography could be written on a pinhead. Why should I feel obliged to comment just because someone has asked for critique.

Now it'd be great if everyone took a little time to offer critique, and I'm all for helping people, but the way stuff gets personal quickly on here I can understand why some people give up giving critique.

Despite this starting off as a general 'lets be more helpful' thread, we've already had the 'pro's holding people back' and 'pro's looking down on you if you have inferior kit' twaddle repeated. I've never seen evidence of either of those things on this forum (ever), yet it's something that people feel they can bandy about as if it's a fact:shake:.

There has never been a pro vs amateur divide on this forum, and there is no place here for one, but some non-pro's put a lot of effort into trying to create one. If it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy the only use for the forum will be to buy and sell gear.

Ask yourself; if you were a pro, would you want to stick around here if that was the attitude of people?

Having a go at people who stick to the business section makes no more sense than criticising people who only hang about in 'talk motorsport' but no-one would dream of criticising someone for that.

 

[Pookeyhead]

How useful would a thread with a 100 replied be though... honestly... it would take ages to read, or reply to them all.... then you get people complaining that they offered crit and never got a thank you.... and THAT does happen too in the Forum Discussion Forum. You can't please everyone.

All that will happen is that there'll be loads of "like that"... that's nice" comments. That's not crit.. it's useless.


As it is... those that are INTERESTED in giving crit, do so. The quality of crit is therefore going to be higher than if you brow beat resentful people who don't want to be doing it into doing it.

Sometimes I don't comment on someone's image because I have absolutely nothing to say about it... because it's just so mind numbingly boring. I;d rather not crit images like that, because despite how diplomatic I am, someone always just blasts me with "That's just your opinion... how can you say it's boring"... usually from the "Ooohh.. that's nice" crowd. The ones who heap praise on images that look like hell through over-processing, or give very favourable feedback because there's a cute baby in it.

I stay out of threads with REALLY **** work in it.

 

[gramps]

As a general rule, the critique sections hold no interest to me. The last time I got involved in a thread like this someone turned that statement into me saying that I had no desire to be helpful to anyone.

Surely if people are free to attack people in that way, then we're all free to take part in (or choose not to) any part of the forum.

You don't honestly believe that there is just the slightest touch of over exaggeration there?

 

[Pookeyhead]

You don't honestly believe that there is just the slightest touch of over exaggeration there?

I agree with Phil... you have to be so careful in there... the "nice" crowd are actually not so nice if they feel you're being "mean".

 

[ZoneV]

I think it's wise not to crit someone's crit - it rarely ends well. Just stick to crit'ing the images.

I still think knowing the experience level of those offering images for crit would be useful. If I was a teacher, for example, I would look at a year 7 pupil's essay differently to, say, an essay by an A-level student and this would be reflected in my marking and feedback.

 

[Phil V]

You don't honestly believe that there is just the slightest touch of over exaggeration there?

I'm happy to find the quotes if you feel it's necessary

 

[gramps]

I agree with Phil... you have to be so careful in there... the "nice" crowd are actually not so nice if they feel you're being "mean".

Phil's comment was about a specific instance.

 

[gramps]

I'm happy to find the quotes if you feel it's necessary

Feel free, as long as you quote them all, but I'm sure you have more productive things to do?

 

[Pookeyhead]

I still think knowing the experience level of those offering images for crit would be useful.

Difficult to establish.

 

[Phil V]

Feel free, as long as you quote them all, but I'm sure you have more productive things to do?

I do actually. But you felt the need to bring it up which I found odd.

 

[ZoneV]

Difficult to establish.

Rough estimate is good enough.

 

[Pookeyhead]

Rough estimaye is good enough.

Only if they have images readily available. You can't spend ages searching someone's post history in order to see their work before deciding if you are going accept their crit or not. Also.. having good images available is no guarantee their crit is useful.... and also, someone who needs crit, is often a poor judge of what is "good" anyway.

 

[gramps]

I do actually. But you felt the need to bring it up which I found odd.

Did I, I thought I responded to your comment about it ... there you go, funny how the mind plays tricks :shrug:

 

[Phil V]

I think it's wise not to crit someone's crit - it rarely ends well. Just stick to crit'ing the images.

I still think knowing the experience level of those offering images for crit would be useful. If I was a teacher, for example, I would look at a year 7 pupil's essay differently to, say, an essay by an A-level student and this would be reflected in my marking and feedback.

Like David said - difficult and not necessarily relevant.

If I were to have a go at water drops or still life, I would expect to be critiqued as a novice, whereas if I posted paid wedding or portrait work, I'd expect to be treated as a Pro.

Which leaves the introduction from the OP as critical in the process. And unfortunately, some people like to post as few words as possible (before getting angry that others misunderstood them). It's not something I suffer from

 

[Phil V]

Did I, I thought I responded to your comment about it ... there you go, funny how the mind plays tricks :shrug:

Mine was general (or I thought it was)

 

[posiview]

I have no issues with the OP thread. This is a photography forum that has numerous threads for members to post photographs for C&C.

Nobody is obliged to comment, but if you can offer constructive criticism then why not do it. You are of course, not obliged to do so.

Cheers.

 

[Pookeyhead]

Different thread. Yet same names.

.....and there we go. The minute a debate crops up over something interesting, you get accused of doing something wrong.

 

[JohnN]

All that will happen is that there'll be loads of "like that"... that's nice" comments. That's not crit.. it's useless.

No, its not useless. Thats a part of building confidence.
Sure a critical review would be more helpful, but its not useless.

 

[posiview]

.....and there we go. The minute a debate crops up over something interesting, you get accused of something... as if you're doing something wrong.

I posted in haste. You replied before the edit. I have to say, though, I will stand by my comments. I edited because I didn't want to hijack the thread.....which I guess I have done now.

 

[Pookeyhead]

No, its not useless. Thats a part of building confidence.
Sure a critical review would be more helpful, but its not useless.

I'm sorry I could link you to examples where it's not only useless.. but actually quite harmful when such people take offence at proper, critical feedback.

 

[JohnN]

Rough estimate is good enough.

Wasn't one of the OPs suggestions (or it may have come along later - I'm loosing track) to add a part to the users profile where that could be shown.

 

[JohnN]

I'm sorry I could link you to examples where it's not only useless.. but actually quite harmful when such people take offence at proper, critical feedback.

I'm not going to get into an argument, but are you honestly saying there are people on here who take great offence at someone saying "thats nice"?? Well other than yourself I guess.

 

[Pookeyhead]

I posted in haste. You replied before the edit. I have to say, though, I will stand by my comments. I edited because I didn't want to hijack the thread.....which I guess I have done now.

Edit all you want.. the fact is, when a debate crops up, and that's all this is... it's not an "argument"... everyone is being civil.. it's a debate.... someone feels the need to say "Different thread... same names".

So what's wrong with having people who question things and enjoying debate. If you don't like it, what exactly is the point of taking part in the thread just to make snide comments about "the same names"?


Seems like a troll comment to me.

I'm not going to get into an argument, but are you honestly saying there are people on here who take great offence at someone saying "thats nice"?? Well other than yourself I guess.

No... I'm not. The OP will clearly be delighted if everyone said "That's nice". What I'm saying is that posting "That's nice" when there are clearly some issues with the image is harmful. I'm also talking about the people who take offence at critical feedback ad accuse you of being negative (not the OP). That's a harmful attitude too.

 

[gramps]

No, its not useless. Thats a part of building confidence.
Sure a critical review would be more helpful, but its not useless.

it's interesting/helpful to know if someone likes your work.
TBH I've seen what some say is excellent technical work posted here but it means nothing to me and I will never like it or enjoy looking at it whereas some newbie comes along and posts something I really enjoy looking at and I am happy to tell them that I like it and hopefully what it is that I like.
There is never a need to crush someone with thoughtless comments (well apart from boosting your own ego) but a comment or two that offers helpful advice/observation is generally always welcome - if it isn't move on and make a not not to bother wit that person again but that doesn't need getting the hump and never commenting on anyone's pics.