Umbrellas for group shots

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Deadlock

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Deadlock said:
Hi

After breaking an umbrella the other day I was looking for a replacement - primarily to be used for shooting groups of 20-30 in clear, even lighting with my Elinchrom BXRi heads.

Elinchrom does a "Varistar 105cm with 24cm Reflector". So a couple of these may be in order.
http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-elinchrom-varistar-105cm-with-24cm-reflector/p1004619

Any thoughts? What you would do given the same situation?

Cheers
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Those Varistars are nice, big spread of light at close range, more controllable and more efficient than a basic shoot through. Still wasteful though, spreading light across 180 degrees if you don't need that.

But for 20-30 people? That's a crowd. Unless you have a fortune to spend on a couple of 2m octas, I would forget anything too creative and you'll also need a bit of power for low ISO and DoF. Maybe a couple of white umbrellas, as big as reasonably practical.

TBH, if there's a suitable ceiling, I'd whack some small/efficient lights up there to give a nice even soft slight, then fill in with a couple of umbrallas on the horizontal axis to brighten faces and put some life into posh frocks etc.

Arrangement of the group and posing will be more important than fancy lighting. See the faces, clear and sharp, dresses etc.
 
will have minor problems using it with a BRXi head though, because of the elinchrom mounting system for umbrellas larger than 7mm (which does my head in!). I tend to use a grip head on a seperate stand to the head, it's a heavy umbrella!
 
itsdavedotnet said:
if you're going for the single big brolly approach, this one's class, great for groups: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/74-85-188...uipment_RL&hash=item2568eb7d40#ht_2664wt_1168
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itsdavedotnet said:
will have minor problems using it with a BRXi head though, because of the elinchrom mounting system for umbrellas larger than 7mm (which does my head in!). I tend to use a grip head on a seperate stand to the head, it's a heavy umbrella!
Click to expand...

That's a heck of a brolly for 50 quid :thumbs:

BTW, most recent Elinchroms have an 8mm umbrella fitting as well as the neat 7mm on-axis one.
 
BTW, most recent Elinchroms have an 8mm umbrella fitting as well as the neat 7mm on-axis one.
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yeah, that's the one that I mean, on the same shaft as to tilt the head. It's crap.

If you change the angle of the head, the brolly falls out. Half the time, the brolly falls out anyway. It's impossible to set up properly without having about 4 hands. Really frustrating :(


And yep, it's a class umbrella, I love it. Much like the alienbees PLM.
 
Thanks guys - sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

Yes. 8mm can be an issue with the elinchrom but I've always used the clamp under the light for the 8mm umbrellas I've had. Not ideal but it does the job as long as you're not changing the angle of the head too frequently.

That ebay umbrella is huge and looks like it could be fun to play with.
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the parabolic nature of the umbrella produce a concentrated beam of light that would illuminate just a large circular part of the group? Is parabolic lighting harder? What would the effect of the head being off centre - uneven lighting?

Richard - yes. I think we have the same ideas on lighting this - a nice even soft light where I can concentrate on crowd control.

Basically,
- I like the softer shoot through effect,
- am not sure if a couple of 500W bxri's would light the area required up with the elinchroms I mentioned above.
- octas are more than I want to pay just now.
- have never really liked the harder light from reflective brollies for this type of work
- perhaps a couple of large white reflective brollies?

There's a few months to go before my next booking of this type so theres no real rush. I just want an idea of possibilities just in case another were to pop up sooner.

Cheers.

p.s. I should add that at this particular venue, ceiling bounce is not possible.
 
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Deadlock said:
Thanks guys - sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

Yes. 8mm can be an issue with the elinchrom but I've always used the clamp under the light for the 8mm umbrellas I've had. Not ideal but it does the job as long as you're not changing the angle of the head too frequently.

That ebay umbrella is huge and looks like it could be fun to play with.
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the parabolic nature of the umbrella produce a concentrated beam of light that would illuminate just a large circular part of the group? Is parabolic lighting harder? What would the effect of the head being off centre - uneven lighting?

Richard - yes. I think we have the same ideas on lighting this - a nice even soft light where I can concentrate on crowd control.

Basically,
- I like the softer shoot through effect,
- am not sure if a couple of 500W bxri's would light the area required up with the elinchroms I mentioned above.
- octas are more than I want to pay just now.
- have never really liked the harder light from reflective brollies for this type of work
- perhaps a couple of large white reflective brollies?

There's a few months to go before my next booking of this type so theres no real rush. I just want an idea of possibilities just in case another were to pop up sooner.

Cheers.

p.s. I should add that at this particular venue, ceiling bounce is not possible.
Click to expand...

Softness of the shadows is down to the size of the light source, relative to the subject - ie big light moved back becomes harder.

The reason you tend to get softer light from a shoot-through is a) it speads light over a very wide area, and part of that gets bounced back from surroundings, b) half the light bounces straight out of the back, off the ceiling, and back to the subject. Both factors result in kind of auto-fill in a typical room that can be quite good, but uncontrolled. Use a 100cm shoot-through outside and the light will be identical to a 100cm white reflective brolly.

There are other differences though, like a silver brolly or beauty dish that tend to have a brighter centre that gives a harder core with a softer surround. Nice combo with the right subject.

Don't worry about parabolic - it's a marketing term. The only really parabolic reflectors are those high-intensity 'tulip' shape smallish metal jobs.
 
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