UK Population

[viv1969]

It's not about "what I feel". Look up the origins and history of the term. You have Google to help you. It's a term of racial abuse.

There, I've amended it.
Can you stop hyperventilating now?
Christ, you'll be outraged on behalf of the frogs next

 

[big soft moose]

"Beaners"? Really? Are we okay with just throwing around racial slurs in this forum now, yes?

I think the phrase Ruth is looking for is Hispanic or Latino - depending on whether you are on the East or West Coast - or Mexican of course (although a lot of migrants across the US/mexico border actually originate further south in places like Guatemala )

I agree with you though using Beaner to refer to hispanic people is no more acceptable than using the N word for blacks

 

[Cobra]

Madness. What's next, I'll get the racist card out for calling me a cloggy?

And TBH I'd not heard that before either, the same as "slope" all these out rages do is bring these words to the attention of people that *may* want to now use them.

BTW, the next time my Aussie cousin calls me Limy, I'll have her in court quicker than you can say "Tie me Kangaroo down sport"

 

[viv1969]

I think the phrase Ruth is looking for is Hispanic or Latino - depending on whether you are on the East or West Coast - or Mexican of course (although a lot of migrants across the US/mexico border actually originate further south in places like Guatemala )

I agree with you though using Beaner to refer to hispanic people is no more acceptable than using the N word for blacks

I'd rather you didn't speak for me. Thanks.

 

[Cobra]

you'll be outraged on behalf of the frogs next

The frogs are fine, there is loads to eat in and around my pond, and they even sing for their supper on warm nights

 

[viv1969]

And TBH I'd not heard that before either, the same as "slope" all these out rages do is bring these words to the attention of people that *may* want to now use them.

BTW, the next time my Aussie cousin calls me Limy, I'll have her in court quicker than you can say "Tie me Kangaroo down sport"

Yanks call us Limeys, Aussies call us pommies...amongst other things

 

[viv1969]

The frogs are fine, there is loads to eat in and around my pond, and they even sing for their supper on warm nights

A veritable frog chorus?

 

[Cobra]

Yanks call us Limeys, Aussies call us pommies...amongst other things

DAMN!

A veritable frog chorus?

I blame Paul McCartney personally

 

[viv1969]

DAMN!


I blame Paul McCartney personally

I blame the scousers in general
Unless that term offends anyone too

 

[ghoti]

Or you google and you can see it is going through meloriation. Yet you seem be wanting it to be a negative term. Madness. What's next, I'll get the racist card out for calling me a cloggy?

Well done for reading Wikipedia. If you'd read further, though, you'd have noticed that it's going through meloriation through reclamation. That is, people who have been abused using the term are reclaiming it. Just like the reclamation of "nigger" by the black population. That doesn't make it okay for outsiders to use willy-nilly.

As for limey, cloggy, frog, pommie, etc, these words don't carry the same power because they generally refer to dominant cultures. Whereas "beaner", "nigger", "paki" etc have been used to denigrate and abuse weaker populations by dominant cultures.

 

[Cobra]

As for limey, cloggy, frog, pommie, etc, these words don't carry the same power

TBH I see no difference whatsoever.
Either they are all insults or none are.

What is the old playground rhyme?
Sticks and stones will break my bones,
but words can never hurt me.

 

[ghoti]

TBH I see no difference whatsoever.
Either they are all insults or none are.

What is the old playground rhyme?
Sticks and stones will break my bones,
but words can never hurt me.

That's easy to say coming from a privileged culture.
Members of dominant cultures haven't had their lives & history ruled by oppressive racism and jingoism which is often manifested through ethnic slurs so it's very easy in ignorance of your privilege to say "I don't see how nigger is any different to limey". But a cursory examination of the history of racism and ethnic persecution would show that opinion up as risible.

 

[dejongj]

Well done for reading Wikipedia. If you'd read further, though, you'd have noticed that it's going through meloriation through reclamation. That is, people who have been abused using the term are reclaiming it. Just like the reclamation of "nigger" by the black population. That doesn't make it okay for outsiders to use willy-nilly.

As for limey, cloggy, frog, pommie, etc, these words don't carry the same power because they generally refer to dominant cultures. Whereas "beaner", "nigger", "paki" etc have been used to denigrate and abuse weaker populations by dominant cultures.

Really? Seriously? You are clutching straw now. The Brits always have been stronger than us, even during the plague.

Don't choose to be offended and we all get along just fine.

Ps. Didn't know you are of Hispanic origin?

 

[viv1969]

TBH I see no difference whatsoever.
Either they are all insults or none are.

What is the old playground rhyme?
Sticks and stones will break my bones,
but words can never hurt me.

Exactly.
Also it's a little comical to put the words in quote marks, as if they should be whispered.

 

[dejongj]

That's easy to say coming from a privileged culture.
Members of dominant cultures haven't had their lives & history ruled by oppressive racism and jingoism which is often manifested through ethnic slurs so it's very easy in ignorance of your privilege to say "I don't see how nigger is any different to limey". But a cursory examination of the history of racism and ethnic persecution would show that opinion up as risible.

Me, I blame Thatcher seriously though, don't you think it is time to move on instead of acting like a current day victim. Those days are well gone

 

[viv1969]

To be honest, the sooner folk start to realise that obsessing about history and events that cannot be changed, the sooner we might be able to begin taking steps to address some of the enormous problems affecting the world we currently live in.

 

[Steve Smith]

Guns keep you safe. Without them you are ill equipped to deal with those who have guns.

When you deal gun to gun with another person, there's a 50% chance the dead person is going to be you.

Guns have no place outside the military and self defence is not a reason to own one.


Steve.

 

[ghoti]

I think the paint is beginning to chip here and we're starting to see the ugly picture underneath. The REAL reason why people are uncomfortable with immigration, asylum seeking, etc. It's not about "space". It's not about taxes or the economy. That's just the window dressing.

It's about racism. Ethnocentrism. Jingoism. Xenophobia. And a complete inability to engage with or even understand issues of cultural privilege.

"Cloggy could be the same as nigger". LOL.

 

[Phil V]

Sorry to disappoint you its not free.

You still have to pay even if some or all of it is refunded.
In most cases, patients have to pay a flat rate fee for any visit to a general practitioner. The cost in 2012 is 23 € per visit, irrespective of the time taken, but is higher for visits to surgeries open at night or at weekends, and for home visits. Most of the cost will then be automatically reimbursed to the patient by his state-run health insurance provider, leaving the patient with between zero and 6 Euros to pay for a standard trip to the doctor, depending on the type of health care insurance he has and the age or medical condition of the patient.
Whilst the social security system picks up most of your health costs, you will need to take out voluntary health insurance to cover those medical costs that will not be picked up by the State, although it is not compulsory to do so.


Depends on the figures used, per capita of residents, per square mile of country?
At least Obama is spending money (spent $18 billion on immigration enforcement programs) to do something about it.

Well you'll appreciate then that ours isn't free either, unfortunately, despite the rules existing, we've never put enough resources into stopping people who aren't entitled to free healthcare abusing the system.

Any way you look at it America has a bigger problem with illegal immigrants. So they're not there for the social security and the guns never stopped them. But now they're there they can easily get hold of their own gun for 'protection'. It's a great system isn't it.

 

[Phil V]

You fear them too?

Of course he does, they use mystical powers like counting and research, and insist on something called empirical evidence to inform their opinions.

Why can't they just use knee jerk reaction and repeating what they read in the Daily Mail like normal people.

 

[Cobra]

That's easy to say coming from a privileged culture.
Members of dominant cultures haven't had their lives & history ruled by oppressive racism and jingoism which is often manifested through ethnic slurs so it's very easy in ignorance of your privilege to say "I don't see how nigger is any different to limey". But a cursory examination of the history of racism and ethnic persecution would show that opinion up as risible.

Well I must admit to having to Google a couple of those words, thanks for the English lesson
The "Races" that were repressed many years ago, by slavery and the like, as you say is history, many apologies have been given for the sins of our fore fathers,
So therefore I suggest that your defence is now flawed.

Me, I blame Thatcher

I've told you before, stop being Thatcher-ist!

 

[dejongj]

I think the paint is beginning to chip here and we're starting to see the ugly picture underneath. The REAL reason why people are uncomfortable with immigration, asylum seeking, etc. It's not about "space". It's not about taxes or the economy. That's just the window dressing.

It's about racism. Ethnocentrism. Jingoism. Xenophobia. And a complete inability to engage with or even understand issues of cultural privilege.

"Cloggy could be the same as nigger". LOL.

Oh give it a break, you are just looking for an argument. To me, it is the worst kind. Time to move on and try and see and listen to people what they actually are saying and doing opposed to placing some deeper meaning to their words. If you honestly choose to see that in people then I think you have some issues. People are much better than you give them credit for.

 

[Blank_Canvas]

To be honest, the sooner folk start to realise that obsessing about history and events that cannot be changed, the sooner we might be able to begin taking steps to address some of the enormous problems affecting the world we currently live in.

"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it" Sir Winston Churchill

 

[Cobra]

Well you'll appreciate then that ours isn't free either,

Of course not, we pay NI for the privilege, the point being anyone dropping by, can avail themselves of our NHS FREE where by in France, money has to be paid up front,
some is reclaimable some isn't.
Its seems that its generally 25% that isn't re-payable, as per my post #199

 

[ghoti]

Well I must admit to having to Google a couple of those words, thanks for the English lesson
The "Races" that were repressed many years ago, by slavery and the like, as you say is history, many apologies have been given for the sins of our fore fathers,
So therefore I suggest that your defence is now flawed.

You think racism and systematic oppression no longer exists because slavery was abolished and a few trite apologies have been thrown around?

Stop! My aching sides.

 

[viv1969]

"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it" Sir Winston Churchill

Oh absolutely!
But learning from it should not mean obsessing on it, and invoking the name of past occurrences at the drop of a hat simply to justify some mock high horse outrage.

 

[Cobra]

You think racism and systematic oppression no longer exists because slavery was abolished and a few trite apologies have been thrown around?

Stop! My aching sides.

You're the one that linked the two, not me, if it is in fact, fact ( that they are inextricably linked) then if one ends the other must also.

 

[viv1969]

I think the paint is beginning to chip here and we're starting to see the ugly picture underneath. The REAL reason why people are uncomfortable with immigration, asylum seeking, etc. It's not about "space". It's not about taxes or the economy. That's just the window dressing.

It's about racism. Ethnocentrism. Jingoism. Xenophobia. And a complete inability to engage with or even understand issues of cultural privilege.

"Cloggy could be the same as nigger". LOL.

You think racism and systematic oppression no longer exists because slavery was abolished and a few trite apologies have been thrown around?

Stop! My aching sides.

Not sure about chipped paint and ugly truths, but I do recognise the aroma of bu115hit when I smell it

 

[Gremlin]

I think the paint is beginning to chip here and we're starting to see the ugly picture underneath. The REAL reason why people are uncomfortable with immigration, asylum seeking, etc. It's not about "space". It's not about taxes or the economy. That's just the window dressing.

It's about racism. Ethnocentrism. Jingoism. Xenophobia. And a complete inability to engage with or even understand issues of cultural privilege.

"Cloggy could be the same as nigger". LOL.

Utter rubbish, my mother was an immigrant, and with her being a german war bride I know an awful lot about racism, it's not about only about colour.
But I still object to the mass influx we have, all seeking benefits housing etc. at the cost of people born here.
Is it any wonder people are against it when we, as a nation, have less rights then those that come in demanding houses, money and getting it
because if they don't the go to the european courts and plead unfair treatment and win.
If I want something I work for it, not demand it as a right

 

[cambsno]

Or you google and you can see it is going through meloriation. Yet you seem be wanting it to be a negative term. Madness. What's next, I'll get the racist card out for calling me a cloggy?

Like on TV yesterday... lots of stick aimed at Kayne West and one person said its a racial thing!!! Personally I think its probably because he is crap!

 

[viv1969]

Like on TV yesterday... lots of stick aimed at Kayne West and one person said its a racial thing!!! Personally I think its probably because he is crap!

And a bit of a tit to boot

 

[Cobra]

lots of stick aimed at Kayne West and one person said its a racial thing!!! Personally I think its probably because he is crap!

Sorry you need to get with the programme, if the minority say it's a race thing then its a race thing, the minority are always right,
or is that being minority-ist?

 

[cambsno]

Oh give it a break, you are just looking for an argument. To me, it is the worst kind. Time to move on and try and see and listen to people what they actually are saying and doing opposed to placing some deeper meaning to their words. If you honestly choose to see that in people then I think you have some issues. People are much better than you give them credit for.

At Cambridge Utd we had a keeper called Arjan van Heusden around 1999... I remember hearing some shocking racist abuse against him... someone shouted out 'Good save Edam"... and the police did nothing!

 

[big soft moose]

Guns have no place outside the military ....

Steve.

except for armed police , legitimate pest control, and sporting use (clay pigeons/ targets etc) - I agree that self defense is a stupid reason to own a hand gun - thats how you wind up like Oscar Pistorius.

 

[dejongj]

At Cambridge Utd we had a keeper called Arjan van Heusden around 1999... I remember hearing some shocking racist abuse against him... someone shouted out 'Good save Edam"... and the police did nothing!

Well you've just heard it from @ghoti that is not racism at all i think many people are just too sensitive and for some odd reason at the same time they think it is ok for them to use certain words yet for others it isn't. Now that I do find very odd and contradicting.

I love the variety of cultures, the notion of racism is just ridiculous in my opinion. It is never a consideration. Heck I'm grumpy and opinionated towards anything and everyone

 

[Phil V]

Well you've just heard it from @ghoti that is not racism at all i think many people are just too sensitive and for some odd reason at the same time they think it is ok for them to use certain words yet for others it isn't. Now that I do find very odd and contradicting.

I love the variety of cultures, the notion of racism is just ridiculous in my opinion. It is never a consideration. Heck I'm grumpy and opinionated towards anything and everyone

Y see, much as I'm as grumpy as you are (we could have a grump off), and I disapprove of 'annoyed on behalf of' throughout the political spectrum (it's not a leftie disease as it's often portrayed). I still know where I can find actual horrible racism, and where I can see it thinly veiled too.

 

[big soft moose]

Well you've just heard it from @ghoti that is not racism at all i think many people are just too sensitive and for some odd reason at the same time they think it is ok for them to use certain words yet for others it isn't. Now that I do find very odd and contradicting.

Any race prejudice or racial name calling is a bad thing, but @ghoti has a point that it is worse when it is from a dominant culture against an oppressed one - so on the whole calling a black person a nigger or a latino a beaner is worse than calling a frenchman a frog or an australian calling an englishman a pom

(btw do Australians use the term Limey ? I thought that was an american term for the English )

 

[Cobra]

(btw do Australians use the term Limey ? I thought that was an american term for the English

My error has already already been pointed out about 30 posts ago.

and where I can see it thinly veiled too.

See now, maybe that's only perceived one man's meat and all that

 

[Gremlin]

Any race prejudice or racial name calling is a bad thing, but @ghoti has a point that it is worse when it is from a dominant culture against an oppressed one - so on the whole calling a black person a nigger or a latino a beaner is worse than calling a frenchman a frog or an australian calling an englishman a pom

That really is a narrow minded point of view, iintolerance of another be it because of race, colour creed, sexual orientation, disability etc is morally wrong.
It matters not what the dominant culture is, it is still as hurtful to the person on the receiving end..

I disapprove of 'annoyed on behalf of' throughout the political spectrum (it's not a leftie disease as it's often portrayed). I still know where I can find actual horrible racism, and where I can see it thinly veiled too.

and thereby lies the heart of the problem

 

[dejongj]

Any race prejudice or racial name calling is a bad thing, but @ghoti has a point that it is worse when it is from a dominant culture against an oppressed one - so on the whole calling a black person a nigger or a latino a beaner is worse than calling a frenchman a frog or an australian calling an englishman a pom

(btw do Australians use the term Limey ? I thought that was an american term for the English )

Is there still such a thing as a dominant culture? I wouldn't be surprised if it actually is a different one then that is being argued Maybe I am misunderstanding something amongst all these ancient riddles of dominant/not-so-dominant cultures, I just see people. And people always argue what other people can say or not...

Gremlin put it in a much better way intolerance is wrong, shouldn't we be focussed on that? Shouldn't we be focussed on the actual actions?