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Unbuntu.....is there any benefits to running a dedicated system or dual boot system with windows.......or am I giving myself one big headache even thinking about it.....:cow:
 
I run half a dozen Ubuntu systems here. They are all dedicated machines - either xbmcs or servers of some kind. Personally, I don't see any advantage to running Linux as a day-to-day system, unless you are adamant you don't want to pay Microsoft for Windows. You will find there are more bugs in the UI, you will not be able to run programs like Lightroom (or if you try via Wine, you will have limited success)and will therefore need to use the Open Source alternatives, things like Word documents will be formatted differently in OpenOffice even though they open and can be seen and depending on the hardware you run, you may find support for your hardware patchy (AMD drivers are notoriously patchy on Linux for example). If you want to play with Linux, either press an old PC into action and run Linux on that for a while or install something like VirtualBox and run Linux in a virtual machine. Also, if you do decide on Ubuntu, make sure you settle on a LTS version, the intermediate ones are only supported for 6 months or so, which will force you into an upgrade sooner or later (which is fairly easy to do, but...).

BTW: I also develop code for Linux as my day job and use Linux servers to do most of my compiling and source code editing/management. I do all of that through a Win 7 machine.... as do all of my colleagues.
 
Its fairly simple to set up a dual boot system these days - in fact the Ubuntu install cd will do it automatically for you provided that Windows is already installed.

I have always dual booted because of needing to use both Linux and Windows software.

The decision to dual boot or not depends on what you want to use the machine for. I would be happy to try and help if you could provide more details.
 
neil_g said:
Why do you think you need it?

Unless you have a specific requirement personally I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.
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Don't really need it.......just an idea I had when I was lying awake at 2.30 in the morning
 
Linux is like retro, it sounds like fun, it appears cool, you get it out and realise why you don't use it anymore. Linux sounds cool/fun, but unless you need it, it is more pain than benefit.
 
Just installed it on a spare desktop for the fun off it...... I really do nit need it but there you go......another pointless activity for a Monday...... :D
 
arad85 said:
BTW: I also develop code for Linux as my day job and use Linux servers to do most of my compiling and source code editing/management. I do all of that through a Win 7 machine.... as do all of my colleagues.
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While linux development only makes up a small part of my work, that part which it does (the server end of the products) I also do almost entirely under Windows 7. Builds are done on the linux boxes, but via ssh from a W7 client (only way, as they are all in data centres around the world).

I haven't seen an actual GUI on any distribution of linux in years and only tend to have a monitor attached until I've got eth0 configured and sshd installed and running.
 
I'm running Ubuntu on my netbook. In fact I'm using it now and I love it. It's perfect for the netbook. Honestly it feels like a new machine but that might be due to the abomination of an OS that Acer had on it before. But that's as far as I go with Ubuntu in terms of what I use it for. It's good to tinker with.
 
I'm running Ubuntu on the laptop I am writing this on, but the main reason I have it is to run some Linux only CNC router software on a desktop PC. I am Microsoft free now!


Steve.
 
There is not much wrong with linux but it is not the best OS for photography (mainly thanks to Adobe for not porting their stuff). As we all start get scared of NSA, GCHQ and chinese backdoors linux may well be the only solution.
 
daugirdas said:
it is not the best OS for photography (mainly thanks to Adobe for not porting their stuff).
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My scanner works much better on the Linux based Xsane software than it does on its own PC software (I have no idea why). It would be nice to run Adobe software on Linux but the limited amount of digital post processing I do, Gimp is good enough.


Steve.
 
Dale_tem said:
Linux is like retro, it sounds like fun, it appears cool, you get it out and realise why you don't use it anymore. Linux sounds cool/fun, but unless you need it, it is more pain than benefit.
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Maybe.

I've been using primarily linux on my home machines for the last 5 years, and it's only really a need for windows to run image processing software that's driving me back there again now. Ubuntu wouldn't be my first choice though, mostly because it can be a bit buggy and sometimes unstable (and it looks a bit half-finished). If you have a newish machine then try either openSUSE or Sabayon using the KDE desktop environment. I'm writing this from my openSUSE 13.1 environment, but I've also got Sabayon and Pear linux partitions as well as Windows. Pear linux has just been acquired and is no longer available, but it's a VERY good OSX impersonator. If you have an older, slower machine then I recommend linuxliteOS - based on Ubuntu, but using a lightweight desktop environment, it's really quick and easy to use, even on a 7 year old laptop with 1Gb ram.

Many windows programs can be run under WINE - a windows simulator - but sadly not Lightroom or photoshop without some clever tricks to make them work. DigiKam (linux photo manipulation package) has the best sharpening tool I've yet found, with it's refocus function.

It may be obvious, but when installing additional operating systems always make sure you have a backup of your data. Even experienced users make mistakes.
 
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I still don't get why anyone would want to run it as their day-to-day OS other than for geek pub points or a hatred (rational or irrational) of Microsoft. Yes, it is perfectly possible to write from a Linux based system (and anyone who posts from an Android device is posting from a Linux system ;)), but why?

It works 90% of the time, but that 10% it is missing is just darned annoying - bugs in the UI, wine that kinda-sorta works - except for the programs you really want to run, patchy support for hardware, OpenOffice that opens Office files but can't format them exactly the same... The list goes on. Most people have some form of dual boot so have windows anyway and getting it to perform perfectly can be a royal PITA. Use Linux in some form of server or embedded capacity (my Linux machines run mainly web servers for different functions and as embedded xbmc clients) and you are much closer to what Linux - or Unix based systems - are good for today.

An example: I've spent most of my last 3 days spare time trying to understand why - of the 3 Linux machines running exactly the same version of OS (Ubuntu 12.04.4 LTS) one of the three refused to wake consistently from standby - and I know what I'm doing! All seems fixed now though - it looks like I needed to install the nvidia-319-updates-dev package instead of the nvidia-319-updates package... Doh - obvious really.....
 
arad85 said:
All seems fixed now though - it looks like I needed to install the nvidia-319-updates-dev package instead of the nvidia-319-updates package... Doh - obvious really.....
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Nope... failed on the 7th resume.... Back to the drawing board...
 
I've been using them because, initially I wanted to try a non-M$/Apple OS, and then after a while I just found I preferred the feel and ethos behind the systems. And having a low risk of virus infection and better security does no harm either. To me, KDE is what Windows should have become instead of going toysRus, and I like the environments that workspace creates. The days of things not working (mostly) seemed to stop about 4 years ago, though there are exceptions - like Ubuntu, which I tried at Christmas and found unstable & buggy. Yes, there can be curve-balls thrown sometimes (usually down to mis-matched graphics drivers & kernels in updates) but mostly it's at least as reliable as windows & OSX.

Biggest irritation is lack of compatibility with key software - I suppose if I had more memory I could run windows in a virtual machine & LR in that.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Maybe.

I've been using primarily linux on my home machines for the last 5 years, and it's only really a need for windows to run image processing software that's driving me back there again now. Ubuntu wouldn't be my first choice though, mostly because it can be a bit buggy and sometimes unstable (and it looks a bit half-finished). If you have a newish machine then try either openSUSE or Sabayon using the KDE desktop environment. I'm writing this from my openSUSE 13.1 environment, but I've also got Sabayon and Pear linux partitions as well as Windows. Pear linux has just been acquired and is no longer available, but it's a VERY good OSX impersonator. If you have an older, slower machine then I recommend linuxliteOS - based on Ubuntu, but using a lightweight desktop environment, it's really quick and easy to use, even on a 7 year old laptop with 1Gb ram.

Many windows programs can be run under WINE - a windows simulator - but sadly not Lightroom or photoshop without some clever tricks to make them work. DigiKam (linux photo manipulation package) has the best sharpening tool I've yet found, with it's refocus function.

It may be obvious, but when installing additional operating systems always make sure you have a backup of your data. Even experienced users make mistakes.
Click to expand...

I used to LOVE KDE in its classic days, but stopped taking it seriously when it tried to copy windows Vista and just went all out eyecandy. Around about KDE 4 I think.

I have a distro installed on a netbook with KDE 3.5 installed over it, looks and works fairly well but it's a pretty bad build, dependencies broken everywhere and bits of the system functioning oddly.
 
KDE 3 stopped, what, 2007? Hmmm. You'd probably like XFCE.
 
Like others I use Linux at work for servers\development....but at home, no good reason for it. I do spin it up every now and then, then get irritated that I *still* have to faff about on the command line to get basic things set up.

I just have better things to do with my time.

I do have a few OpenELEC machines and RHEL and Mint VM images stored in case I do ever need it though.

I will run Steam OS on the HTPC when the streaming service is all working (render game on crossfire desktop, play on tiny silent machine under TV).
 
If i did not need photoshop and lightroom I would go back to it.

Never had any major issues with ubuntu or its sub OSs built on it.
 
Xfce rocks. Easily the best interface if you want to run on old/low end hardware or want to run a GUI over a link of some sort.
 
eeyore said:
Never had any major issues with ubuntu or its sub OSs built on it.
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But do you do much more than web browsing and simple document processing? If not, you are using a very small subset of what is available so won't be exploring the regions where Linux is poor and/or buggy.

Another couple of examples of issues with Linux spring to mind:

  • Graphics drivers. The only one that is anything like complete is Nvidia. Don't try ATI (no Linux drivers, you have to rely on community efforts) or Intel (don't get me started on what works and what doesn't with video acceleration for their latest hardware) if you want something that is bug free and runs quickly.
  • power usage. Linux doesn't have the power saving that Windows has - a laptop run under Linux is likely to have significantly lower battery life than a laptop under something modern from Microsoft like Win 8.
 
arad85 said:
But do you do much more than web browsing and simple document processing? If not, you are using a very small subset of what is available so won't be exploring the regions where Linux is poor and/or buggy.

Another couple of examples of issues with Linux spring to mind:

  • Graphics drivers. The only one that is anything like complete is Nvidia. Don't try ATI (no Linux drivers, you have to rely on community efforts) or Intel (don't get me started on what works and what doesn't with video acceleration for their latest hardware) if you want something that is bug free and runs quickly.
  • power usage. Linux doesn't have the power saving that Windows has - a laptop run under Linux is likely to have significantly lower battery life than a laptop under something modern from Microsoft like Win 8.
Click to expand...

Did not notice much if any power diffrence on my old netbook. IIRC there was a remix for next books

Ran a few servers on linux for the house, blender 3d for modeling stuff, programing control boards and the odd bit of testing my wifi ;)
 
arad85 said:
But do you do much more than web browsing and simple document processing? If not, you are using a very small subset of what is available so won't be exploring the regions where Linux is poor and/or buggy.

Another couple of examples of issues with Linux spring to mind:

  • Graphics drivers. The only one that is anything like complete is Nvidia. Don't try ATI (no Linux drivers, you have to rely on community efforts) or Intel (don't get me started on what works and what doesn't with video acceleration for their latest hardware) if you want something that is bug free and runs quickly.
  • power usage. Linux doesn't have the power saving that Windows has - a laptop run under Linux is likely to have significantly lower battery life than a laptop under something modern from Microsoft like Win 8.
Click to expand...

You do have a thing about it, don't you?

Most people do no more than surf & use simple documents regardless of OS, so if that area is solid then Linux will be as good as M$/OSX.
Graphics drivers *used* to be a problem, but with Nouveau and Plymouth those days are pretty much gone. Legacy cards are starting to have problems, but that's also true with windows & Nvidia. The Nouveau driver is pretty darn good with both Nvidia and ATI cards (I've just had to do a little swapping because my 7 YO graphics card was starting to give trouble, borrowing a 4980 & then popping in a passive 610 - both worked fine).
Power usage on laptops is much better, and close to windows now. My old 12" laptop (for sale) gets >2 hours with linux lite OS, which is the same as it was giving with Vista, all the power saving functions, battery display etc work fine. W8 is probably better, and if that's important then you should use W8.

Modern linux is enormously better than it used to be, and the command line is (mostly) a bad memory.
 
ancient_mariner said:
You do have a thing about it, don't you?
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Yes, because it is evangelised as the second coming by people who do precisely nothing more than surf and minor DTP. It is OK, but there are rough edges, which you will find sooner than either Windows or OSX if you use more than the browser. For the record, I have more Linux installs here than anything else, so am not anti-Linux per-se.

ancient_mariner said:
Graphics drivers *used* to be a problem
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Graphics drivers *are* a problem if you are trying to do anything out of "simple web browsing and DTP" for example video acceleration. ATI support is pants and Intel back end video processing support is broken. This is what MPEG2 looks like if you try and deinterlace it on Haswell for example:

attachment.cgi



ancient_mariner said:
but with Nouveau and Plymouth those days are pretty much gone.
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Plymouth is the shiny boot environment, nothing more, nothing less and Nouveau has no hardware acceleration. Want to use it to play video - hmm... it's a lottery.

ancient_mariner said:
Modern linux is enormously better than it used to be, and the command line is (mostly) a bad memory.
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The command line rocks....
 
I used w7 until about a year ago but now only use Ubuntu (currently 13.10) - Not really had any problems running ubuntu and it's pretty easy to download and install the latest nvidia drivers from nvidia's website. I used LR3 on W7 but actually prefer Rawtherapee (version 4) to LR which works well with Nikon NEF and Ricoh DNG raw files.

w7 actually takes a lot longer to install than ubuntu (about 60 minutes vs 20 minutes) when you include the time for doing all the updates, and the only advantage I can see with w7 is if you want to run software that is "windows only" such as LR or office. The only windows app I run is quickbooks which works fine under wine.

In fact I found moving from w7 to ubuntu a bit like moving from ios to android ie no going back!
 
Conversely I've just installed Windows 8 so I can run Lightroom. Initial experience suggests it's less robust than openSUSE (actually frighteningly easy to break - try switching between desktop and start when software is installing, or worse, having a program crash while running updates) but it's a lot better than OSX for Lightroom on a roughly equivalent spec machine. I did try Raw Therapee, but just didn't like the results, which may be my fault.

Andy - I can't particularly comment on the specific issues you have, but for the typical uses I had (browsing, document creation, image manipulation, music creation, home entertainment) it has been fine. Often if one distro has some problems with a particular video card, another will have it sorted.
 
Thanks guys for mentioning Rawtherapee... gonna give it a go.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Often if one distro has some problems with a particular video card, another will have it sorted.
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As I said, the issues are with drivers direct from the manufacturers. ATI basically don't provide any with full hardware acceleration (you need to use Open Source versions which "work" but don't benefit from the internal knowledge of the ATI engineers - at least not directly), Intel are broken in many areas (have a hunt around libva bugs on freedesktop.org - that picture I posted is from a bug report made at the end of December to the Intel developers directly: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72522). Another example is VC-1 decoding is very broken on Haswell. I built a Haswell based htpc just before Christmas and I ended up on kernel 3.13.0-031300rc3-generic #201312061335 (i.e. bleeding edge and compiling it myself) to try and get everything in I needed. My workaround for all the issues Intel have in their driver - just run the decoding in software - I was fortunate to have a powerful enough CPU. These issues just don't exist in the Win 8 drivers though.....

The point I am making is that once you go off the beaten track with Linux, you are straying into areas where you MAY come across problems that may lead you having to build drivers, find bugs, configure systems, understand the way the OS runs etc... It is quicker to get off the beaten track with Linux than it is with either Windows or OS-X and, as you are finding, you probably need/want access to one or the other anyway for compatibility with other programs. Unless you have a particular hatred of Windows or OS-X and want to switch because of that or need the most cut down software as the hardware you are running on is ancient, there is no advantage to Linux. There are a number of potential downsides however.
 
arad85 said:
As I said, the issues are with drivers direct from the manufacturers.
Click to expand...

That's been true for you, but in my case most of the issues have been due to updates shipped out with mis-matched kernel/graphics driver, resulting in the x server failing to start. From the POV of a user that doesn't wander too far from conventional usage, if for any reason there is a problem with one of my aged graphics cards then I can either swap distros or pop another card in from the other maker. Intel graphics? Never needed to worry about them. ;) But seriously, bad luck being stuck with that.

Present source of annoyance is the sound card on my Windows install. Creative SB Live PCI card (probably 7 years old) for which no Windows drivers are apparently available due to it being too old. You WHAT? A quick google suggests there's no obvious fix, so will have to dig a little deeper & probably try to use XP/Vista 64bit drivers or somesuch.

After my recent windows and OSX experiences it looks very much to me like there's a bunch of hardware and a bunch of different OSs that can run OK on some combinations and badly on others. It's a bit of a lottery as to whether it works OK, but if it does then it works OK.
 
ancient_mariner said:
That's been true for you, but in my case most of the issues have been due to updates shipped out with mis-matched kernel/graphics driver, resulting in the x server failing to start. From the POV of a user that doesn't wander too far from conventional usage, if for any reason there is a problem with one of my aged graphics cards then I can either swap distros or pop another card in from the other maker.
Click to expand...
I think that set of sentences says what I wanted to say far better than I could. Updates that break the system, hunting for distros to get hardware working, or otherwise swapping hardware to get the current one working. That's about my experience with Linux too... As I said, easy to get off the beaten track. Linux simply isn't the panacea people make it out to be. In fact, I think I spend more time per-install administering Linux systems than Windows.
 
I've been thinking about why Linux appealed and still appeals to me, and I think there's a couple of things, wrapped up in the above.

All PCs and OSs work badly at times, either due to bugs or errors in interface design. While both Windows and OSX are more widely supported than linux, they tend to do things in ways that at times are difficult or intensely frustrating for the user. Yes, you can probably watch de-interlaced video OK, but historically speaking I've supported others who have had the systems effectively break repeatedly because they want to do something in the way they want to while the designer has made certain that, sure as hell, it can't be done. Like using a new install of Windows 8.1 without a Microsoft account. I don't want one, microsoft insist I have one in order to use the software. So Linux has been about being able to do things in a variety of ways, and particularly about freedom.

And carrying on, computers were for me a hobby for a long time. Windows and OSX matured and became uninteresting a long time ago, while Linux allowed me to enjoy my hobby. And it's worth noting that it has now matured enough that I'd seriously consider Linux for work - I know which distros break regularly and which applications are reliable *for me*. But since my work doesn't rely on it, I have fun trying to discover why I can't get the GUI up and swapping stuff around to fix things. It's not a long way off-piste, but these days the command line isn't the only way to fix things.

And then finally there's freedom.

Remember that Microsoft account sign in? I HATE being controlled like that and being forced to become a unit of consumption a vast and unethical organisation can leverage to keep purchasing their product, while having my details given to the various security agencies. I'm not particularly anarchist, but frankly all the big US corps are part of their countries machine as far as I'm concerned. Using a distro created by people as a hobby helps keep me away from that side of things, even though I've nothing to hide.

So I'd agree Linux is in no way a panacea, though some distros are ready for the mass consumer market, but for me it's preferable to the other options - at home.
 
I'm using 8.1 without a MS account......
 
Interesting. But when I completed the final stages of the update it did not offer me any way forward without completing the account application (and goodness knows, I tried to find a way round).
 
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