Tunisia - How Awful !

Mr Bump

Mr Bump

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Oh man what an awful thing to happen in Tunisia.
I feel so sad for those families.
 
You just can't put it into words :(

Looking at the victims "profiles" on the BBC News site, the majority are older people around the same age as my parents who go on holiday several times a year, enjoying a bit more free-time and financial freedom that they're worked their lives to achieve.

My parents have recently returned from a cruise from Turkey to Israel, they flew out on a Monday morning and I'd heard nothing from them by Wednesday (which is completely out of character for them) so I contact the travel operator who by the evening confirmed that they had embarked on the cruise and were safe and well...... turns out Mum didn't realise the red exclaimation mark next to messages sent on Facebook means they didn't send........

Anyway, whilst waiting on news of my parents' whereabouts the mind did tend to get a little excitable and I was getting more and more worried as the day went on.

I just can't imagine how these poor people families are feeling right now, this was a devastating attack carried out by coward. Let's not forget the sickening attack that happened in France on the same day.

If these so-called ISIS "soldiers" are so brave, why not go out to Syria/Iraq and face the prospect of return fire, something they were never going to get on a beach in Tunisa which was packed with people just trying to enjoy themselves or in a factory where people were just trying to earn a living.

There is no justification, no religion condones thee types of actions.

I know we've had discussion on here before with regards to the treat of ISIS and other "terrorist" groups with suggestions varying from nuking the entire Middle East to trying to make peace with them......... neither of which would work in my mind but something's got to be done as I don't believe anyone's really safe at the moment :(
 
Russ wrote:-

"There is no justification, no religion condones thee types of actions."

Trouble is that in the head of the headbanger that is exactly what his/her religion calls for. The headbangers (and there seems to be plenty of them) believe that their interpretation of their religion is the correct one.
 
Me and my missus just popped over to Turkey for a week and it was on my mind but for this to happen in this way. This man (if that word can be used) just ending lives and destroying families with so little regard. I felt a bit sick when the story broke, I cannot believe how these terrible crimes can be carried out in support of any reason.
 
arclight said:
Russ wrote:-

"There is no justification, no religion condones thee types of actions."

Trouble is that in the head of the headbanger that is exactly what his/her religion calls for. The headbangers (and there seems to be plenty of them) believe that their interpretation of their religion is the correct one.
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I make you spot on there, to a point anyone that's religious believes that their religion is the correct one, thankfully the for the vast majority that just involves praying in a different way to a different god and not the slaughter of innocent people.

Having said that, part of me thinks that ISIS is just a terrorist organisation using religion as a cover for their behaviour, a little like football hooligans using the sport as an excuse to have mass brawls.
 
Russ77 said:
Having said that, part of me thinks that ISIS is just a terrorist organisation using religion as a cover for their behaviour, a little like football hooligans using the sport as an excuse to have mass brawls.
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I fear that, if that were true, then it would be a lot easier to deal with ... this is an ideology that does not need group support, a 'Jihadist' can crop up anywhere at any time and is quite happy to die for his/her cause.
 
Russ77 said:
Having said that, part of me thinks that ISIS is just a terrorist organisation using religion as a cover for their behaviour, a little like football hooligans using the sport as an excuse to have mass brawls.
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Part of me goes for this theory too.
A lot of overage underachieving children "playing" at war and destruction under the cover of Islam.
But gramps is right. No amount of "carpet bombing them back to mecca" will prevent them popping up anywhere in the world, as they are increasingly doing.
 
Terrible news my thoughts are with those involved. I have spent a lot of time in Tunisia touring on my motorbike, very friendly people most of whom will be appalled by this attack. Listened to Today on R4 this morning and was most impressed with the Derbyshire family who are insisting on staying to finish their holiday citing "not giving into the terrorists" as their reason.(not that I am in anyway critical of those choosing to return home) good to see the British spirit alive and well.
 
30 dead in a bombing of a mosque in Kuwait. Muslims killing Muslims at prayer on the holy day during Ramadan.for religious purposes they say?
 
Good on you Cameron


An RAF C17 transport plane left Brize Norton in Oxfordshire on Monday at lunchtime bound for Tunisia to help evacuate casualties.


The prime minister said that if families wished, aircraft could help return their loved ones' bodies to the UK.
 
time that nato got there head into gear and sent a multinational force into iraq/syria and settled it once and for all . a few nanny pamby bombs dropped on specific targets is fine if your fighting a normal army but your not ,yes there would be collateral damage but did that stop us in ww2 or the yanks in nam .
stop pussyfooting about go for the head of the gang and take him/them out .a couple of daisy cutters on there estimated headquarters would do the same job ,we surely have the intelligence feedback to know where and when to strike
 
the black fox said:
time that nato got there head into gear and sent a multinational force into iraq/syria and settled it once and for all . a few nanny pamby bombs dropped on specific targets is fine if your fighting a normal army but your not ,yes there would be collateral damage but did that stop us in ww2 or the yanks in nam .
stop pussyfooting about go for the head of the gang and take him/them out .a couple of daisy cutters on there estimated headquarters would do the same job ,we surely have the intelligence feedback to know where and when to strike
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Didn't we do that in Afghanistan,Iraq,didn't work out to well then :(
 
the black fox said:
time that nato got there head into gear and sent a multinational force into iraq/syria and settled it once and for all . a few nanny pamby bombs dropped on specific targets is fine if your fighting a normal army but your not ,yes there would be collateral damage but did that stop us in ww2 or the yanks in nam .
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The yanks lost in 'Nam.

And when a damn good portion of those faithful to the cause aren't in the Middle East.....How's that work?
 
the black fox said:
time that nato got there head into gear and sent a multinational force into iraq/syria and settled it once and for all . a few nanny pamby bombs dropped on specific targets is fine if your fighting a normal army but your not ,yes there would be collateral damage but did that stop us in ww2 or the yanks in nam .
stop pussyfooting about go for the head of the gang and take him/them out .a couple of daisy cutters on there estimated headquarters would do the same job ,we surely have the intelligence feedback to know where and when to strike
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what a silly statement, do you realy think that will work?
more violence will just spark more attacks and drive more recruits into this mad world of chaos.
 
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Its a terrible terrible shame
David Cameron said or was quoted as saying on the radio this morning
Islamist extremists “have declared war on Britain and they are attacking our people at home and overseas”, David Cameron has said in response to the killing of as many as 30 British tourists in Tunisia.
Pledging a “full spectrum” response to the massacre, Cameron said Theresa May, the home secretary, had flown to Tunisia on Monday for talks on how to address the extremist threat and to pay her condolences at the scene.
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I do wish there was something that could be done, however I feel that this is more empty words and lip service.
"Full Spectrum?" WTF does that mean anyway?


As people are saying above, Vietnam didn't exactly go the way the Americans had hoped.

viv1969 said:
And when a damn good portion of those faithful to the cause aren't in the Middle East.....How's that work?
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And we can hardly start bombing Luton & Birmingham can we?
 
we should be lending our full weight to the irag and afghan armies and also to assist the rise of the arabs to take on this cancer that affects there lands.

We need to get everyone that can help in this and treat is as essentially WW3.
 
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Mr Bump said:
we should be lending our full weight to the irag and afghan armies and also to assist the rise of the arabs to take on this cancer that affects there lands.

We need to get everyone that can help in this and treat is as essentially WW3.
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Errr....hold on....Didn't you just say.....

Mr Bump said:
what a silly statement, do you realy think that will work?
more violence will just spark more attacks and drive more recruits into this mad world of chaos.
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:thinking:
 
@viv1969 what I meant but didn't come over well is the west on its own cannot win this as it has just looked like the west Vs Muslim.

We need to ALL work together to form a united front against this but ultimately the middle east needs to help in its own issues and provide soldiers instead of currently opting out.
 
Steve Smith said:
Quite often, it's actually the same god.


Steve.
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Sadly I think you're right........ In a way it's a bit like people having a fight over who's imaginary friend is the best :/

I'm in the "violence will only breed violence" camp at the moment.

Do we need a more robust stance against the "hate" clerics who preach in this country, should we have zero tolerance to the extremists who march the streets, denouncing the country they're living in and the people who live here that don't subscribe to their beliefs?

Admittedly one of the things that makes this country is free speech but I think that's being taken a little too literally. If I stood on a street corner announcing the names of the people who I dislike/hate and what I thought should happen to them I'm fairly sure I'd get a visit from the police and possibly have action taken against me, a line needs to be drawn somewhere.
 
viv1969 said:
Ohhhh, I don't know.....
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Leave the Birmingham library behind. Apart from being visually interesting in and out, it's got a huge collection of photographs and photography books.

Oh and the Christmas market is good.
 
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Unfortunately doing nothing is not really an option as Isis will just see it as weakness on our part ,the only way to put a end to it is for a force that is non aligned to any side to come down hard and put a stop to it .doing nothing now will only make them braver in the future . Sorry but it's the only option that has any chance ,bomb them back to the Stone Age
 
I don't know what the answer is but I agree with Russ we need something done about the hate clerics in this country. It is time for all governments/countries to take a more aggressive action against ALL these showing hateful extremism against normal society. Free speech is not a given in this country, If I say something derogatory about another race of people I can find myself in court accused of being a racist.
 
the black fox said:
Unfortunately doing nothing is not really an option as Isis will just see it as weakness on our part
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I agree 100% Jeff, but at the moment it feels like we are cutting off the Hydra's head.
As to the answer, I really don't have one.
 
We need to be getting the Nuke agreement with Iran sorted and backing them, they are the major arab power who are confronting ISIS at the moment. Put pressure on Israel to return to pre67 lines and make sure they do not attack the Lebanon.
 
Bearair said:
We need to be getting the Nuke agreement with Iran sorted and backing them, they are the major arab power who are confronting ISIS at the moment. Put pressure on Israel to return to pre67 lines and make sure they do not attack the Lebanon.
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[pedant] The major Islamic power - Iran isn't arab - Iranians are an Aryan race [/pedant] , also they are confronting them because ISIS are lunatic Sunni extremists , Iran are nearly as lunatic Shia Extremists - lets not forget that the bulk of British casualties in Gulf 2 came from fighting the OMS around Al Ammarah - the office of the martyr sadr were/are shia lunatics with iranian backing.

If Iran want to take ISIS on , let them but we need them to fight each other to a stand still , giving too much backing to Iran will just result in trading one bunch of headcases for another.
 
on topic for the tunisia attacks - did people see that welsh chap in the news who put his body between his fiancee and the gun men and took 3 in the chest for his trouble saving her life - he's back home and doing well in hospital , a nice piece of every day heroism... nothing says "i love you" quite like 'shoot me instead'
 
@big soft moose is right about Iranians. Calling them Arabic is about the biggest insult you can bestow.
 
the black fox said:
time that nato got there head into gear and sent a multinational force into iraq/syria and settled it once and for all . a few nanny pamby bombs dropped on specific targets is fine if your fighting a normal army but your not ,yes there would be collateral damage but did that stop us in ww2 or the yanks in nam .
stop pussyfooting about go for the head of the gang and take him/them out .a couple of daisy cutters on there estimated headquarters would do the same job ,we surely have the intelligence feedback to know where and when to strike
Click to expand...

Not a chance of that working. We would make more enemies than friends (again) by invading and thereby store up more problems for the future. Furthermore, the IS lot are not a conventional army or structured anything like one. They are scattered all over the place and that would require tens of thousands of troops to weed them out. Many would melt into civilian poplulations and surface again at a later time.

For reasons that escape me I do not think there is a will (yet) to deal with them.
(a) they are getting money from some sources.
(b) they are supplementing that with selling oil on the black market.
(c) they are being given and buying arms.

It cannot be too hard to find out who is involved in a, b and c, nor too hard to stop it. It is probably well known to the security services and their governments who is involved. Political will to kill that seems to be absent.

Perhaps the situation will change when the Saudis and friends fear they will end up like Syria etc.
 
Absolutely shocking what's been reported. Personally I think we do have to be far more robust with people who spread terror around the world. Robust and final, but this has to be done as a whole community and not just one nation.

About time we started fighting fire with even more fire.
 
wibbly said:
Absolutely shocking what's been reported. Personally I think we do have to be far more robust with people who spread terror around the world. Robust and final, but this has to be done as a whole community and not just one nation.

About time we started fighting fire with even more fire.
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Fine ideas.
But what actual actions do you suggest?
 
Damned if you do and damned if you don't - whatever action we take (from a full scale invasion of Syria to doing nothing and withdrawing all troops and support) will often be seen as the wrong move. Systematic bombing would wipe out many, especially chains of command and supplies but you run the risk of even more fanatics. Trouble is, if you do nothing (as in the 30s with Hitler) then at some point it comes to a head. Imagine if we had taken Germany apart in 1936/37 - yes, many tens of thousands (many innocents) would have died, but compare that to the many millions that died a few years later... and remember that well over 6m were innocent people too!

If we ignore will ISIS go away? Doubt it.
 
cambsno said:
Damned if you do and damned if you don't - whatever action we take (from a full scale invasion of Syria to doing nothing and withdrawing all troops and support) will often be seen as the wrong move. Systematic bombing would wipe out many, especially chains of command and supplies but you run the risk of even more fanatics. Trouble is, if you do nothing (as in the 30s with Hitler) then at some point it comes to a head. Imagine if we had taken Germany apart in 1936/37 - yes, many tens of thousands (many innocents) would have died, but compare that to the many millions that died a few years later... and remember that well over 6m were innocent people too!

If we ignore will ISIS go away? Doubt it.
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Exactly my point ,you have to learn the lessons of history
 
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