TTL Studio lights - Anyone using them yet?

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connersz

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In some cases with toddlers running around in front of the backdrop, it's almost totally pointless setting up a flash properly using a light meter. There're around 9 square meters of room for them to run around in and the results vary between each shot. It's not like this in all cases, just when some children won't sit still under any circumstances.

I was wondering if anyone has used the TTL studio lights in these situations and how they got on. They're also mostly wireless meaning there's nothing to trip over so that's an extra incentive for me to consider trying one.


I was looking at the Pixapro option. It supposedly can do 500 flashes on a charge. To be honest, half of that would work.
 
The reason I would not consider buying TTL studio lights is I do not fully understand how they work.
I guess I know how TTL works with one subject, one light scenario but I cant see how it works with multiple TTL studio lights and multiple subjects that require different lighting levels.
For example if I had two TTL lights for the background and one TTL light for the subject know how does the lights and cameras system calculate the he exposure required for different types of subjects.

Many studio photographers do not use flash meters, preferring to use the histogram display on their camera which is more accurate than most flash meters, although it takes practice to interpret the reading from the cameras histogram.
 
J
redsnappa said:
The reason I would not consider buying TTL studio lights is I do not fully understand how they work.
I guess I know how TTL works with one subject, one light scenario but I cant see how it works with multiple TTL studio lights and multiple subjects that require different lighting levels.
For example if I had two TTL lights for the background and one TTL light for the subject know how does the lights and cameras system calculate the he exposure required for different types of subjects.

Many studio photographers do not use flash meters, preferring to use the histogram display on their camera which is more accurate than most flash meters, although it takes practice to interpret the reading from the cameras histogram.
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Histograms do not help in balancing lights, nor to create modeling, when you need to know their ratios between the lights. For this you need light meters
 
I honestly don't know how TTL studio light would help in this situation... it's not like the lights will be tracking with the kids. I can see the potential for negative side effects...

I think you would probably better of doing more "general lighting" in this scenario... i.e. light the entire room with bounced fill.
 
sk66 said:
I honestly don't know how TTL studio light would help in this situation... it's not like the lights will be tracking with the kids. I can see the potential for negative side effects...

I think you would probably better of doing more "general lighting" in this scenario... i.e. light the entire room with bounced fill.
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I think it could still work. If it's the right distance away, with a softbox and grid, it should cover most of the backdrop area and give bit of a vignette (which I like) so long as the subject is somewhere in the lit area. To be honest I can test this using one of my manual studio lights in a fixed position, metering and adjusting the power for different positions to see how it looks.
 
I decided to go for it and give it a go.

I've bought a Phottix Indra360 with battery back which on first impressions seems like quite a bit of kit.

It has high-speed sync, TTL which will be useful. I'm going to start using it as my main studio light to see how I get on. I like how it's wireless and with the TTL should mean a reduction in light metering (and thus saving time).
 
connersz said:
It has high-speed sync, TTL which will be useful. I'm going to start using it as my main studio light to see how I get on. I like how it's wireless and with the TTL should mean a reduction in light metering (and thus saving time).
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Hoping you will do a review of the lights themselves and of the usefulness of TTL in a studio situation.
 
mike weeks said:
I have TTL studio lights as in the Godox AD600 with AC adapter but would not use TTL in the studio. I just create a zone of f8, half a stop either way is lost in processing

Mike
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Well it depends on what you're doing. I run a family portrait studio so I'm often changing people into different positions (sitting and standing) and dealing with kids that run around in circles. The half stop you quote depends on the type of lighting modifier and even if this was the only issue, it's still something that needs to be done during processing and that's more time spent doing things other than drinking beer.

You said you would not use TTL in a studio, but didn't specify the reason why not?
 
mike weeks said:
TTL works to a point, many systems fail with off centre subjects so the advice is to use TTL lock, so with a moving subject what do you do?

Mike
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So you wouldn't use TTTL because of off centre subjects? That's an issue with the subject, not the lighting and you will have the same issue with non-TTL lighting.
 
connersz said:
So you wouldn't use TTTL because of off centre subjects? That's an issue with the subject, not the lighting and you will have the same issue with non-TTL lighting.
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Yes, and no...
If the subject is out of the light the TTL metering will tell the light to put out even more light because it's not seeing it. When that happens the additional light will (potentially) do things like blow out the BG, or bounce around the room affecting your ratios, etc. I only see potential additional issues and no benefit...

I suppose, maybe if you are using it for more general/area lighting, and the issue is only subject to light distance changes, and the distances aren't changing fast/large enough to change in the time between metering/capture... then there could be some minor benefit. But I think the general/zone lighting in manual that Mike and I suggested will work just as well, or better.
 
Let me put it like this:
A TTL light, used alone, will calculate, instantly and pretty reliably, the amount of light needed for "correct" exposure. What I mean by that is that it won't be so far off that the shot is unusable, and this can be a genuine benefit for certain high speed situations, where there isn't a lot of time to do even the simplest mental arithmatic.

But, a good (or even a very average) brain will almost always do a better job, simply because the person who is using the brain knows what s/he wants to achieve, i.e. they may not want the exposure "right" because they may want a different result.
And, in the controlled conditions of a studio, it's totally pointless
And when more than one light is being used, it's hopeless.

An analogy...
Last Saturday, as always I went clay shooting, a friend who has bought himself a brand new and very expensive 4x4 parked it in a stupid place on a steep downhill slope. He couldn't go forward because there was a fence in the way and he couldn't go backwards because his car was stuck in mud when he went back to it.
He knew what to do, he pressed the various buttons that told the car that he wanted it in 4 wheel drive, low transfer, and diff locked, but the car just dug a trench that it was impossible to get out of. Now, if someone is stupid enough to select 4 wheel drive, low transfer, diff lock on a tarmac surface then they will do very serious damage to the car - so the car technology over rides their decision and doesn't do as it's told until the wheels are spinning, by which time it's too late.

So, I towed him out with a really strong towing strap, using my no-frills lump of an off roader that doesn't have a computer that stops me telling the car what to do.

Same as your fancy flash - it may help some people some of the time, but in most situations, a human will do a much better job every time.
 
sk66 said:
Yes, and no...
If the subject is out of the light the TTL metering will tell the light to put out even more light because it's not seeing it. When that happens the additional light will (potentially) do things like blow out the BG, or bounce around the room affecting your ratios, etc. I only see potential additional issues and no benefit...

I suppose, maybe if you are using it for more general/area lighting, and the issue is only subject to light distance changes, and the distances aren't changing fast/large enough to change in the time between metering/capture... then there could be some minor benefit. But I think the general/zone lighting in manual that Mike and I suggested will work just as well, or better.
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I think it's fair to say that no matter what kind of light being used, the subject is going to need to be in front of it. The differences between TTL and manual have nothing to do with where the subject is as the light is going to be the same, however it's metered.

Garry Edwards said:
Same as your fancy flash - it may help some people some of the time, but in most situations, a human will do a much better job every time.
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That's exactly what it's there for, to help some of the time. I still have three Lencarta studio lights (you'll be glad to know) that are still in operation.

If you're interested to find out how I get on then watch this space. If you've made up your mind already and want to stick to 'the old 4x4's then that's fine.
 
connersz said:
So you wouldn't use TTTL because of off centre subjects? That's an issue with the subject, not the lighting and you will have the same issue with non-TTL lighting.
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Not an issue with non-TTL as you have already metered and set the lights but TTL is only as good as the way it sets itself via pre-flash. As I said it has nothing to do with off centre as you can centre, do an Exposure Lock and recompose which would probably not work so easily with a moving subject.

Mike
 
connersz said:
The differences between TTL and manual have nothing to do with where the subject is as the light is going to be the same, however it's metered.
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The point of TTL is that the light (output) will *not be the same between shots depending on where the subject is, and how it's metered.
I can see it being beneficial in some limited scenarios (i.e. strong backlighting), but not really in the scenario you presented... I'll be interested to hear how you get on with it, that's why I'm still following this thread.
 
TTL works really well when you get used to it! Remember, the flash is dumb and only does what the Camera tells it. You can set the key light to TTL and the camera to centre weighted metering, follow the subject that is moving and keep it framed centrally and the exposure will be correct no matter what the distance is between the key light and the subject.
The background lights are also set to TTL and then adjusted by an EV value to give correct exposure of the background (These are in a different group to the main light). The lighting ratio between subject and background will stay the same no matter where the subject is in relation to it.
 
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