Trying off-camera flash....

[kennysarmy]

Had a little go at some portraits.

Canon 5dmkii + 24-105
580exii on lightstand with umbrella as main light camera left, slightly above me, 430exii to fill in shadows low below camera pointed at me. Also had some reflectors positioned to help add some light to my left hand side.

Flashes were set manually to :

580exii - 24mm 1/4+0.7 power
430exii - 28mm 1/64 power

Camera settings were 1/100 f/8 iso100

I found setting the shutter speed higher than 1/100th showed part of the shutter curtain on the image.

Flashes were fired remotely using yongnuo 602 on the 580 which acted as a master to the 430 in slave mode.

Space was very limited as I did this in our breakfast room.

Wondering how you think I got on?
And what would improve the image?

 

[HoppyUK]

Not sure what you're doing with the sync. RF-602 is a manual trigger, and guns must be in full manual mode - not E-TTL master/slave manual. Probably explains the 1/100sec thing.

What is the 430 doing? Is it even firing in sync, given the above?

 

[kennysarmy]

Maybe my wording confused...

I have one transmitter and one receiver.
The receiver was on the 580, so. I thought the only way to fire the 430 was to the use a master/slave arrangement between the flashes....

 

[tiler65]

Kenny..did you not have a receiver on the 430?...it still needs one to fire.

 

[HoppyUK]

Three cheapest options are a) get another RF-602 receiver - prolly best, b) use RF-602 in full manual on 580, get a little optical slave for the 430, c) put the 580 on a cord as main light in E-TTL master mode, and 430 in slave.

Canon guns don't have a normal optical slave feature and will only fire off a Canon master.

 

[DizMatt]

some cameras can be used as a master, the 7D can but I'm not sure about the 5Dii
the cheapest way I think would be a hot shoe cable (sync?) from the camera to the 580
then that acts as your master to which the 430 can slave.
alternatively, if you want TTL and all bells and whistles but are happy with IR (instead of RF).
then the YN ST-02 transmitter will master both flashes without cables for about £70.
or just a manual trigger with two receivers
also 1/125s is sometimes your absolute minimum shutter anyway without using high speed sync

 

[DizMatt]

Maybe my wording confused...

I have one transmitter and one receiver.
The receiver was on the 580, so. I thought the only way to fire the 430 was to the use a master/slave arrangement between the flashes....

the 580 can act as a receiver, as can the 430
but if you want to use the 580 as a master, and the 430 as a slave, I don't think you can trigger using the YN602
this would mean a daisy chaining of flashes which I don't think is possible.
just get another YN602 receiver for the 430.

sorry if I've missed the boat or am repeating the obvious.

 

[kennysarmy]

I am more confused, as from what you are both saying the 430exii should not have been firing? Yet it was.

As I see it, the 602 on the hot shoe of the camera was firing the 580exii using the 602 receiver. The 580 was in M not ttl, but was also set in Master mode, this then triggered the 430 which was in Slave mode (also in M not ttl)

I can see however that having a second 602 receiver would be preferable but without one I thought the above would work in trying some 2 flashes off camera....

 

[HoppyUK]

I am more confused, as from what you are both saying the 430exii should not have been firing? Yet it was.

As I see it, the 602 on the hot shoe of the camera was firing the 580exii using the 602 receiver. The 580 was in M not ttl, but was also set in Master mode, this then triggered the 430 which was in Slave mode (also in M not ttl)

I can see however that having a second 602 receiver would be preferable but without one I thought the above would work in trying some 2 flashes off camera....

The 430 might have been firing, but maybe not in sync. I can't see any evidence of it in your sample shot.

While you had the 580 in master mode, it couldn't act as master as it wasn't receiving any master instructions from the camera.

Basically your options are as in post #5 above, except I forgot an important thing about Canon guns - they don't play well with normal optical slaves. They will only fire once, then you have to switch them off/on and it will then fire again - once! There is some residual voltage left in the foot so you need a special slave - like this one http://www.colinsfoto.com/Sonia_Canon_EX_Optical_Slave_trigger_Rotating_Hotshoe/p43950_466761.aspx It's funny stuff this flash sync.

 

[kennysarmy]

The 430 might have been firing, but maybe not in sync. I can't see any evidence of it in your sample shot.

While you had the 580 in master mode, it couldn't act as master as it wasn't receiving any master instructions from the camera.

Basically your options are as in post #5 above, except I forgot an important thing about Canon guns - they don't play well with normal optical slaves. They will only fire once, then you have to switch them off/on and it will then fire again - once! There is some residual voltage left in the foot so you need a special slave - like this one http://www.colinsfoto.com/Sonia_Canon_EX_Optical_Slave_trigger_Rotating_Hotshoe/p43950_466761.aspx It's funny stuff this flash sync.

Thanks for your posts, which I am trying to understand....

So although both flashes were firing, and I have a couple of shots where I had the 430 turned up too high and was creating additional catchlights in my eyes and doing more than just fill in the shadows under my chin, what you are saying is that the flashes were not firing in sync.....and by sync I take to mean not together, hence why I needed a shutter speed of 1/100ths to capture both bursts of light....

Have I understood that correctly?

 

[HoppyUK]

Thanks for your posts, which I am trying to understand....

So although both flashes were firing, and I have a couple of shots where I had the 430 turned up too high and was creating additional catchlights in my eyes and doing more than just fill in the shadows under my chin, what you are saying is that the flashes were not firing in sync.....and by sync I take to mean not together, hence why I needed a shutter speed of 1/100ths to capture both bursts of light....

Have I understood that correctly?

Yes. What you're trying to do shouldn't work, hence your problems.

Just get another 602 receiver and you're properly in business. Most folks use full manual for this kind of thing anyway - gives you full control of the lights in a situation where you usually also have good control over the subject and have time to make manual power adjustments, so the benefits of E-TTL are greatly reduced and once everything is set, you know it won't change.

Or consider the new Yongnuo 622 E-TTL triggers. They're amazing value, do full manual plus radio E-TTL of course and a few other handy tricks, plus they work 100% with your EXII-type guns. About £70 a set. Search for some long threads on these.