Travelling to America, possible new rules, and costs!

[redhed17]

Just seen a story about proposed changes to the rules for travelling to America. Do you think this is justifiable? Would it put you off.

According to a notice published in America's federal register on Tuesday, foreign tourists would need to provide their social media from the last five years.

It will be "mandatory" to hand over the information, and other details - including email addresses and telephone numbers used in the last five years, as well as the names, addresses, numbers, and birthdays of family members - will also be required.

It further wants to collect biometrics - face, fingerprints DNA and iris - as part of the ESTA application. It currently only records face and fingerprints upon arrival at the US border.

The proposed changes are open for public consultation for 60 days.

That all seems like a scary amount of information they want from you just to visit their country to spend your money there.

Anyone planning a trip and happy to potentially hand all that information over?

This comes after tourists already being denied entry with valid visas, and in some cases detained on arrival. They have added additional $250 "integrity fee" on top of the the cost of visas from some countries, which have also risen for many countries, and now plan to charge tourists $100 on top of any current entrance fee to their National Parks, and if you buy an annual pass, it will increase from $80 to $250 for no US visitors.

At a time when the lack of tourists seems to be affecting many places in the US, this all just seems a bit counterproductive to me. Run by a 'business man' whose businesses have filed for bankruptcy 4-11 times (depending on which reports you read), and doesn't seem to understand how tariffs work, how do you think this will work out for tourism in the US?

Land of the free eh!

 

[steveb]

I believe considetable numbers of potential tourists will think, stuff Trump, there's plenty of other interesting countries to visit. I've visited the USA twice, certainly never will again.

 

[lindsay]

I learnt to fly in the USA nd visited a number of times to go flying and for business, and had my honeymoon and another holiday there in the past. However the madness of the new ICE terrorism means I would absolutely not take the risk of being unlawfully detained on the whim of one of their staff. These new proposed rules and fees just cement that resolve, that I will never go there again. A number of people I know have said the same, including people who have previously worked for US multinationals like myself and done business there. This government,ent is destroying their country and trashing all the goodwill there ever was towards it.

 

[Irishman]

Plenty of other places to visit and spend my money, they can run, skip and jump.

 

[LCPete]

Madness makes no sense nobody will want to go there, I said on here a little while ago that we always fancied visiting Yellowstone park but no way would we go there now

 

[nog]

Just in time for the World Cup

 

[gman]

My brother went to Miami a few weeks ago without any issues and I wouldn't have been put off either. But this new thing does seem excessive; I'm not actually sure how I could provide my social media for the last five years, do I somehow download it from all the various social media app? Sounds like a logistical nightmare.

On the plus side, I think anyone who is reasonably intelligent knows that this is all Trump & Co. and not necessarily the will of the American people etc. I think any lost goodwill can be very quickly restored with a different President. They have the economic and military strength to receive forgiveness faster than most.

Same goes for Russia, we shouldn't tarnish a nation over its leader and their cohorts. The conflict will eventually be over and you don't want to alienate yourself from that market.

 

[redhed17]

Just in time for the World Cup

FIFA give Trump a 'Peace Prize', when his policies are making it so some of the fans of teams involved in the tournament are from countries not allowed to go to the US. I thought the last World Cup was the most excluding with the LGBTQ taking chances with their liberty by going to Qatar, but FIFA and Trump have up the ante. I'm hoping there will be empty stadiums in America, and full stadiums from the more welcoming, and cheaper, Canada and Mexico.

 

[Nod]

I wonder how people without twitter, facebook, insta etc, will get on. Pretty sure I'm not the only one in that group.

 

[redhed17]

My brother went to Miami a few weeks ago without any issues and I wouldn't have been put off either. But this new thing does seem excessive; I'm not actually sure how I could provide my social media for the last five years, do I somehow download it from all the various social media app? Sounds like a logistical nightmare.

On the plus side, I think anyone who is reasonably intelligent knows that this is all Trump & Co. and not necessarily the will of the American people etc. I think any lost goodwill can be very quickly restored with a different President. They have the economic and military strength to receive forgiveness faster than most.

Same goes for Russia, we shouldn't tarnish a nation over its leader and their cohorts. The conflict will eventually be over and you don't want to alienate yourself from that market.

I'm glad your brother had a hassle free trip to America.

Half the American people voted for Trump, who to give him credit, did not hide what he was going to do if he won. All the things Trump is doing are things that will run deep, and not suddenly be changed with a different president. His attitudes are being pushed into all areas of their society, but especially the federal infrastructure. The sexism, racism and xenophobia and lack of empathy by the man at the top has emboldened those with similar traits to be more open with the way they behave, and that is not something that will easily go away with a different president.

Part of their economic strength was close to the centre of and integrated global economy, Trumps tariffs have shifted that irrevocably and will cause so much change that it already can't go back to they way it was before.

As for the military, having the largest military worked because it was in opposition to Russia/China with NATO. Trumps attitudes to Russia, China and NATO means that the US is an ally that can't be relied upon any more. Could a different president repair the damaged he's caused! Depends how much relationships are broken, and the state of the world when a different president comes in.

But you always have to remember that Trump said if he won that America wouldn't have to vote again. Let's see how that goes in a couple of years.

 

[redhed17]

I wonder how people without twitter, facebook, insta etc, will get on. Pretty sure I'm not the only one in that group.

Their AI will zip through your emails looking for anything 'not suitable'. Just posting in this thread may have scuppered you.

 

[gman]

I'm glad your brother had a hassle free trip to America.

Half the American people voted for Trump, who to give him credit, did not hide what he was going to do if he won. All the things Trump is doing are things that will run deep, and not suddenly be changed with a different president. His attitudes are being pushed into all areas of their society, but especially the federal infrastructure. The sexism, racism and xenophobia and lack of empathy by the man at the top has emboldened those with similar traits to be more open with the way they behave, and that is not something that will easily go away with a different president.

Part of their economic strength was close to the centre of and integrated global economy, Trumps tariffs have shifted that irrevocably and will cause so much change that it already can't go back to they way it was before.

As for the military, having the largest military worked because it was in opposition to Russia/China with NATO. Trumps attitudes to Russia, China and NATO means that the US is an ally that can't be relied upon any more. Could a different president repair the damaged he's caused! Depends how much relationships are broken, and the state of the world when a different president comes in.

But you always have to remember that Trump said if he won that America wouldn't have to vote again. Let's see how that goes in a couple of years.

Not really, the turnout of eligible voters was only an estimated 64% never mind the whole population. A paltry 156 million, not even half of the American people.

When Biden took office he immediately signed over 60 executive actions in his first 100 days, of which I believe 24 of them were direct reversals of Trump's policies. The structure of the American system appears to allow rapid change, as demonstrated by Trump now but also Biden before him.

Tariffs can be quickly and easily changed/reversed. The large military gives America the upper hand over smaller nations, especially as America has shown its williness to use its military for what we often know is for economic gain. Their economy, resources and output is huge; countries will always want a piece of it.

However, I do agree that perhaps the greatest concern is whether or not there will still be enough "democracy" left for another [untampered] election.

 

[Nod]

Their AI will zip through your emails looking for anything 'not suitable'. Just posting in this thread may have scuppered you.

Some of the memes I've posted in the jokes thread certainly might - if I ran into a Fart supporter!

 

[lindsay]

The problem of his legacy, even if it can be largely reversed in practical terms fairly quickly by a new president, is that it demonstrates the fickleness of a corrupt electoral system that is long past it's relevance. In other words, after 4 years of a Dem president, we could get Vance or similar reinstating all of Trump's madness and nepotism. It will take a number of new presidents showing consistency and reform, across the political divide, before anyone will really trust the USA again.
Russia is a busted flush - they have demonstrated an ineffective corrupt military can't defeat a determined and well-armed smacker country without vast loss of life. China is watching them implode with glee, waiting the typical Chinese long game for things to work themselves out. The only real superpower globally now is China, with the patience and wealth to watch everyone else fade into obscurity.

 

[redhed17]

Not really, the turnout of eligible voters was only an estimated 64% never mind the whole population. A paltry 156 million, not even half of the American people.

So 36% of Americans saw nothing wrong with his legal history, the overt sexism, racism and xenophobia of Trump to go to the polls to oppose him, and so you would assume don't have strong enough convictions to oppose the man and everything he stands for, and so complicit by their apathy.

When Biden took office he immediately signed over 60 executive actions in his first 100 days, of which I believe 24 of them were direct reversals of Trump's policies. The structure of the American system appears to allow rapid change, as demonstrated by Trump now but also Biden before him.

You can change policies as much, or as quickly as you want, but if you feel the people working in national and local government will potentially oppose your orders, you get as many of them people out, and either replace them with people more amenable to your views, or you gut the system, which is what the Doge bs has been doing. If the system doesn't work, it at least won't work against you. Once those people have left their jobs with all that knowledge and experience is gone, it is no easy thing to even get beck to what was there before Trump. Sign as many orders as you like.

Tariffs can be quickly and easily changed/reversed. The large military gives America the upper hand over smaller nations, especially as America has shown its williness to use its military for what we often know is for economic gain. Their economy, resources and output is huge; countries will always want a piece of it.

Tariffs can be stopped, or reversed, but the intricate network across the world of production and distribution, which kept prices of all goods as low as they were, built up over many decades, is gone for a lot of industries. That can't easily be set up again, even if all the US tariffs stopped tomorrow. He has caused irrevocable damage to the world economy, and has two (or more) years to make it worse. No one can plan anything when things can drastically change depending on how one person feels every day. The side effect of him bypassing congress, who should be voting on the implementation of tariffs. But apparently the US in under attack!

However, I do agree that perhaps the greatest concern is whether or not there will still be enough "democracy" left for another [untampered] election.

I think ICE deployment in largely democratic cities (with seemingly little justification) is a way to get the population used to armed personnel on their streets, and also testing how far those he puts on the streets will follow his orders. I haven't seen any stories of ICE personnel not following orders.

I wonder how that could be useful in the future!

 

[gman]

So 36% of Americans saw nothing wrong with his legal history, the overt sexism, racism and xenophobia of Trump to go to the polls to oppose him, and so you would assume don't have strong enough convictions to oppose the man and everything he stands for, and so complicit by their apathy.

Not necessarily, there could be a number of reasons why people didn't vote.

You can change policies as much, or as quickly as you want, but if you feel the people working in national and local government will potentially oppose your orders, you get as many of them people out, and either replace them with people more amenable to your views, or you gut the system, which is what the Doge bs has been doing. If the system doesn't work, it at least won't work against you. Once those people have left their jobs with all that knowledge and experience is gone, it is no easy thing to even get beck to what was there before Trump. Sign as many orders as you like.

Have their National and Local Governments stopped working?

Tariffs can be stopped, or reversed, but the intricate network across the world of production and distribution, which kept prices of all goods as low as they were, built up over many decades, is gone for a lot of industries. That can't easily be set up again, even if all the US tariffs stopped tomorrow. He has caused irrevocable damage to the world economy, and has two (or more) years to make it worse. No one can plan anything when things can drastically change depending on how one person feels every day. The side effect of him bypassing congress, who should be voting on the implementation of tariffs. But apparently the US in under attack!

I'm not convinced that a lot of industries across the world's production and distribution network have gone or will disappear in the very short future. The world economy has continued to grow and even the Guardian has reported that it has shown unexpected resilience. Time will tell, but I suspect China etc would be quite willing to accept those who are disgruntled.

Although, China isn't quite as strong as some may believe. Their GDP per capita is worse than Mexico, they have a genuine aging population problem, serious debt to GDP issues etc and from a military strength point of view, they are very green and have nowhere near the worldwide projection that America has due to lack of alliance networks, bases etc.

It will be interesting to see what happens to Trump once he is no longer President. I suspect a conveyor belt of lawsuits for the rest of his life.

I think ICE deployment in largely democratic cities (with seemingly little justification) is a way to get the population used to armed personnel on their streets, and also testing how far those he puts on the streets will follow his orders. I haven't seen any stories of ICE personnel not following orders.

I wonder how that could be useful in the future!

I've never really approved of the whole "militarised" look of many of their law enforcement agencies and police. We've somewhat leaned in that direction in the UK, but certainly not gone as far as camouflage fatigues. I doubt ICE etc would be enough to establish and maintain a Dictatorship. Despite being the Commander in Chief, I can't envisage the actual military complying. But this is all speculation, I guess anything is possible.

 

[boogie man]

I can’t see how this is going to be done. Where would they find your call records for the last 5 years, let alone all your emails? Do the phone and ISP providers even hold the data that long? Is any of this actually enforceable by the US considering the data protection laws in other countries? At the very least it will be incredibly labour intensive… presumably someone will actually have to check all this for every individual ?

We have family in the US that we visit fairly regularly so will have no choice whatever happens, but it sounds a ridiculous idea.

 

[Box Brownie]

I can’t see how this is going to be done. Where would they find your call records for the last 5 years, let alone all your emails? Do the phone and ISP providers even hold the data that long? Is any of this actually enforceable by the US considering the data protection laws in other countries? At the very least it will be incredibly labour intensive… presumably someone will actually have to check all this for every individual ?

We have family in the US that we visit fairly regularly so will have no choice whatever happens, but it sounds a ridiculous idea.

There was an item about this on the TV this evening.

The reporter showed what the ETSA or is it ESTA website looks like and at the moment the addition of the loss of social media accounts are currently optional but the surmise is that if you apply the exemption to entry in future it will mandatory. So at that point you are giving the links for them (AI ?) to investigate i.e. not at the border point of entry???

 

[redhed17]

I can’t see how this is going to be done. Where would they find your call records for the last 5 years, let alone all your emails? Do the phone and ISP providers even hold the data that long?

Just looked at one of my email accounts, and the oldest email is from 2002!

Is any of this actually enforceable by the US considering the data protection laws in other countries?

The point is you will be in their country, and subject to their rules and laws, as you would be visiting any country.

At the very least it will be incredibly labour intensive… presumably someone will actually have to check all this for every individual ?

As for labour intensive, pure speculation, but you'd give them access to your phone, they connect it to some computer to copy everything, and then the AI will analyse it all. You will probably have needed to disclose your social media when applying for the visa.

We have family in the US that we visit fairly regularly so will have no choice whatever happens, but it sounds a ridiculous idea.

Good luck with that. I hope all your future visits are hassle free.

 

[redhed17]

Just seen an article on Yahoo about other countries and their social media stance when entering these countries.

Australia​

Australia does not require you to supply details about your social media when making a visa application, but the Australian Department of Home Affairs can reject applicants due to their social media posts.

Cheng Yee Phuah, a lawyer at the Australian based Inclusive Migration, said in February, some visas "prohibits participation in disruptive or harmful activities, and if your social media posts suggest that you are involved in activism or political activities that may potentially be seen as being in breach of your visa condition, this could put you at risk of having your visa cancelled".

Colombia​

As part of the visa application to visit Colombia, you are required to disclose usernames across Facebook, Instagram, and X, but you are not required to make these profiles public.

Singapore​

People hoping to get a job in Singapore may be required to provide their social media details to the hiring company as part of their background checks.

The applicant must give consent for the company to do this, but if they refuse, they risk losing the job they have lined up.


And then maybe in Europe too.

Germany​

In 2024, UK-based civil rights group Statewatch reported German police had recommended that the German government implement social media checks for anyone hoping to enter the Schengen area - the group of European nations that share open borders.

The proposal suggests using social media to confirm the details filled in by applicants.

It also recommends developing a risk profile for applicants by examining a wide range of details about them, including their social media.

 

[boogie man]

Just looked at one of my email accounts, and the oldest email is from 2002!

The point is you will be in their country, and subject to their rules and laws, as you would be visiting any country.

As for labour intensive, pure speculation, but you'd give them access to your phone, they connect it to some computer to copy everything, and then the AI will analyse it all. You will probably have needed to disclose your social media when applying for the visa.

Good luck with that. I hope all your future visits are hassle free.

I do take some of your points, I was just floating some of my thoughts on it as they occurred to me really.

There are still a few things that don’t make sense to me though (bear in mind that I am a complete numpty when it comes to tech things! )

Do the ISP’s hold all your deleted emails indefinitely as well as things you choose to keep? If not what’s to stop people just deleting anything that could be construed as dubious before travelling ?

Are the ISP’s really just going to release all your personal information and details to a foreign government? What guarantees would the US give that the information then won’t be misused? Who’s responsible if that info gets leaked in a data breach ? I imagine that’s going to open a massive can of worms about infringement of personal rights and data protection.

Of course, yes, the labour needed is just speculation on my part, but there’s at least going to be a need for extra staffing at the home ISP’s and phone companies to release the specific user’s records. Also at the US end to input the records, even if it is then processed by AI. Who bears those costs? If something does get flagged by AI who makes the call as to if it’s actually dubious?

Presumably the phone co’s and ISPs won’t just open everybody’s records up to the US and just say “ there you go, knock yourself out”. WhatsApp already make a big deal about how users messages are end to end encrypted, so how will they analyse those? Are Apple going to just roll over with access too, because they’ve never allowed it previously, even for the UK government and security forces .

To be honest this sounds very much like one of The Donald’s half cocked vote winning ideas, designed to sound good to the US public but practically will be unenforceable, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it never actually happens. As somebody else has said, the timing of this announcement is also terrible with regard to the World Cup. I doubt it would be put in place in time to be fair and surely the World Cup is going to be one of the highest security risks coming to the US ? If they’re that worried about terrorists and/or political activists coming in then why wasn’t this considered far earlier? I imagine it’s going to put at least some tourists off travelling to the US whatever.

 

[lindsay]

Although, China isn't quite as strong as some may believe. Their GDP per capita is worse than Mexico, they have a genuine aging population problem, serious debt to GDP issues etc and from a military strength point of view, they are very green and have nowhere near the worldwide projection that America has due to lack of alliance networks, bases etc.

Although I agree about China's military relying on numbers more than experience, they do have good technology kit available. My disagreement is regarding worldwide projection. That is to judge China like Western countries. Apart from the notable exceptions of Tibet and parts of former Manchuria and areas bordering Russia in the East, China has never sought to conquer land - territorial acquisition is not a thing. They have created dependency in large parts of Africa, for the purpose of securing raw material supply, using the Road & Belt Initiative. Political projection was tried in the past in Malaysia and Indonesia for similar reasons, it failed due to Western responses, but is now more successful by discreet investments. Expansion in the South China Sea is a goal now, purely to achieve dominance over other ASEAN countries in trade terms. And it shouldn't be forgotten that China could use it's dollar reserves to control the US economy if it wished - I've no doubt that was waved under TheDonald's nose when he tried getting shirty with Xi.
Military power is to reinforce what can be achieved by other methods, and China is very adept at more subtle ways of managing relationships.

 

[swanseamale47]

Personally I wouldn't bother. They clearly dont want tourists (like Spain) and I certainly wont pay a premium price to have my anti social media gone through, not that I really do any
The US seems set on self destruct, so it can do it without me.

 

[Dave Canon]

I wonder how people without twitter, facebook, insta etc, will get on. Pretty sure I'm not the only one in that group.

Good point this forum is as close as I get to Social media. If I responded to their form that I had not had anything to do with Facebook, Tic Toc, Instagram, etc. at all ever, they would be very suspicious. I used to travel to the US regularly with a diplomatic visa and one day a particularly awkward immigration official threatened to have me arrested and thrown in jail; I suggested that she consulted her supervisor. She then backed down and let me through but I reported her conduct and a US colleague assured me that there was no excuse for her behaviour and she had been sacked. I cannot believe she was sacked for this one incident but she might have already been on a final warning.

Dave

 

[Mr Bump]

Never been to the USA and never will that saying I have FB friends there and they tell me it's a battle ground under trump and the hate let them just get on with it

 

[Dave Canon]

It is only a proposal at this time so much of the reports about this is speculation. They will be constrained by what is practical. I visited the USA a dozen times between 1979 and 2000 but no chance I would ever go again. I did go to Canada a few times 2010 being the most recent and would strongly recommend Canada for the friendly people and photography opportunities.

Dave

 

[gman]

Although I agree about China's military relying on numbers more than experience, they do have good technology kit available. My disagreement is regarding worldwide projection. That is to judge China like Western countries. Apart from the notable exceptions of Tibet and parts of former Manchuria and areas bordering Russia in the East, China has never sought to conquer land - territorial acquisition is not a thing. They have created dependency in large parts of Africa, for the purpose of securing raw material supply, using the Road & Belt Initiative. Political projection was tried in the past in Malaysia and Indonesia for similar reasons, it failed due to Western responses, but is now more successful by discreet investments. Expansion in the South China Sea is a goal now, purely to achieve dominance over other ASEAN countries in trade terms. And it shouldn't be forgotten that China could use it's dollar reserves to control the US economy if it wished - I've no doubt that was waved under TheDonald's nose when he tried getting shirty with Xi.
Military power is to reinforce what can be achieved by other methods, and China is very adept at more subtle ways of managing relationships.

I'm not sure what the disagreement is regarding worldwide projection from a military point of view. China doesn't have military bases or allies around the world in the way America does, nor the carrier group naval capability, so staging military conflicts afar would be very difficult for China.

 

[lindsay]

My point really was that to date, China has never had any interest in projecting military power, being satisfied with proxies and other means of obtaining influence. Except in the South China Sea, by taking over the Spratly Islands etc to have control over sea trade routes.

 

[jankaper]

It is hard to tell what drives the current government/ leader to set these rules. Minds can change overnight (or even by the hour), so it is hard to guess if these new rules will actually get into effect. Personally I do not think safety or security is any real ground for setting those rules (just excuse). Things that come to my mind, that may be behind it:

• Negotiation power..., Wanting the rest of the World to give the US something in return for not installing the proposed rules (like for the World Cup soccer, which is popular in the rest of the World and if fans can't travel to the US, the fans may 'request' their governments to negotiate with the US.
• European privacy legislation bothering big tech. If you need a 5 year history of your social media, you more or less need to approve the big tech companies to save your data. If 'you' choose to let them save your data, they are allowed to do it and get penalized by privacy laws for it.
• Discouraging spread of 'woke' ideas (or bad press for government). If people feel it can be used against them when they promote ideas the current government defines as 'woke' or share messages that do not 'praise' the government, it might prevent them from sharing/ spreading (lets call it voluntary censorship).

I'm not into conspiracy thinking, so it just something that crossed my mind. But the current government style is in many ways irrational/ non-understandable to me, so that just makes me wondering what might be the 'real' drive for these rules. Especially since preventing tourists for spending money in the US will not be the objective.

 

[mj4456]

My COPD probably rules out long flights over to the US now so won’t be returning, but possibly my social media contempt of orange rump would delay/prevent my entry in any case.
As for a new president repairing any damage, well positive reputations take a long time to a build, but bad ones can develop overnight, I doubt the demise of the fool would have folk queuing to return to the states.

 

[Merluza]

I don’t have any intention of going to the USA in its present incarnation but as I don’t have and never have had any social media accounts I expect I could look forward to a few days in detention on suspicion.

 

[gman]

My point really was that to date, China has never had any interest in projecting military power, being satisfied with proxies and other means of obtaining influence. Except in the South China Sea, by taking over the Spratly Islands etc to have control over sea trade routes.

Their public face of not showing a great deal of interest in projecting military power is most likely be because they can't, at least not at the moment. I certainly wouldn't rely on that remaining as a status quo, especially considering Xi Jinping has ordered the military to be able to seize Taiwan by force by 2027.

China's defence spending has increased rapidly in recent times and in particular with its Navy. Whilst compared to America they may have more ships in pure numbers, they still lack the carrier capacity that America has. They are also massively increasing their nuclear stockpiles. They clearly have a plan that involves military action and I suspect it will be somewhat influenced by America's military strength in the future.

 

[Mr Bump]

I have defo called out that fat w****ker trump loads on my FB so no thanks

 

[redhed17]

I do take some of your points, I was just floating some of my thoughts on it as they occurred to me really.

It's what we're all here to do.

There are still a few things that don’t make sense to me though (bear in mind that I am a complete numpty when it comes to tech things! )

Do the ISP’s hold all your deleted emails indefinitely as well as things you choose to keep? If not what’s to stop people just deleting anything that could be construed as dubious before travelling ?

Your deleted emails are normally deleted after a month, and I'm assuming the email company owners are deleting data when they can.

Are the ISP’s really just going to release all your personal information and details to a foreign government? What guarantees would the US give that the information then won’t be misused? Who’s responsible if that info gets leaked in a data breach ? I imagine that’s going to open a massive can of worms about infringement of personal rights and data protection.

I think the point would be you would have to have agree to them looking at your data and and social media to enter the country.

I wouldn't trust them with any data, or even the UK government with the same information. They would probably have rules to indemnify themselves against any comebacks after a data breach. And would you really have the cash to take on the US government. And also make it difficult for anyone to take them court, much like eBay I think, who can only be sued in California, or something like that.

Of course, yes, the labour needed is just speculation on my part, but there’s at least going to be a need for extra staffing at the home ISP’s and phone companies to release the specific user’s records. Also at the US end to input the records, even if it is then processed by AI. Who bears those costs? If something does get flagged by AI who makes the call as to if it’s actually dubious?

I'm sure they could automate a system to suck a load of information from your devices. Then AI analyses the data, and the AI flags problems. The US is already starting to charge tourists more money to visit their country, but all costs would probably be passed on to visitors. Pay for the privilege of them taking and using your data.

This is all speculation, but I don't think the tech is too far way from that, and pretty much the only way to do it at a scale that could work.

Presumably the phone co’s and ISPs won’t just open everybody’s records up to the US and just say “ there you go, knock yourself out”. WhatsApp already make a big deal about how users messages are end to end encrypted, so how will they analyse those? Are Apple going to just roll over with access too, because they’ve never allowed it previously, even for the UK government and security forces .

Again, ISP's not involved, you would need to give the access to your devices, and social media, to enter their country.

To be honest this sounds very much like one of The Donald’s half cocked vote winning ideas, designed to sound good to the US public but practically will be unenforceable, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it never actually happens. As somebody else has said, the timing of this announcement is also terrible with regard to the World Cup. I doubt it would be put in place in time to be fair and surely the World Cup is going to be one of the highest security risks coming to the US ? If they’re that worried about terrorists and/or political activists coming in then why wasn’t this considered far earlier? I imagine it’s going to put at least some tourists off travelling to the US whatever.

I don't think this is in any way a vote winning idea, because I doubt anyone would be for it.

All this has very little to do with security imho, and more to do getting 'the right' people visiting who more align with their view of the world, which is generally white and right wing beliefs.

And the more data you have on people, the more you can control and influence, which is why these social media companies want all this data, though they also want to sell you stuff.

 

[JohnMcL7]

I can’t see how this is going to be done. Where would they find your call records for the last 5 years, let alone all your emails? Do the phone and ISP providers even hold the data that long? Is any of this actually enforceable by the US considering the data protection laws in other countries? At the very least it will be incredibly labour intensive… presumably someone will actually have to check all this for every individual ?

We have family in the US that we visit fairly regularly so will have no choice whatever happens, but it sounds a ridiculous idea.

I don't think it's call records they're looking for, just the phone numbers you've used and the account names for social media:

The 2025 proposal is far broader. It makes no exception for visa-free travellers and would apply to anyone entering the US. Visitors would need to provide social media usernames, email addresses and phone numbers used in the past five years, along with the names, birthdays and contact details of immediate family members

I'd guess as part of the application you'd be told you must make your social media accounts public or worse yet asked to provide the login details which I'm sure was required for a border crossing or VISA somewhere. Either way it looks pretty bad and even worse you'd have to give details over of family members without their consent.

I was toying with visiting the US to go to the Circuit of the Americas race track since it's an impressive one and I've never been to that area but I've been feeling more wary since Trump got in, there's been a noticeable drop in tourism numbers so I'm definitely not on my own there. These proposed changes though would make it a definitely no from me and I'm sure many others too.

With regards to a future regime change I'm feeling a lot less optimistic since it doesn't seem likely Trump or his party have any plans to leave the White House and has already shown he can pretty much do what he wants regardless of whether it's legal or not.

 

[JonathanRyan]

Like a lot of things, it will inconvenience honest people while giving the illusion of safety against "undesirables".

I've no idea how to do it, but I expect that in an afternoon I could set up some nicely aged social media accounts with help from Dr AI.

Meanwhile, there's a work conference in the US that would be very interesting but I have absolutely no desire to attend anything there and probably won't get a volunteer from the team because nobody will want to risk a visit. We'll wait for a European one.

 

[redhed17]

Meanwhile, there's a work conference in the US that would be very interesting but I have absolutely no desire to attend anything there and probably won't get a volunteer from the team because nobody will want to risk a visit. We'll wait for a European one.

You may be surprised sadly that you may have a couple of Trump supporters in your organisation, and see no problems. I know I am in my work when after all he has done they can see him in any way favourable.

 

[Delphin]

I think the noticeable drop in overseas tourism proves people are already put off going to America, the new rules will make things even worse for their tourism industry. Trump has already cost them $30bn in lost revenue.

It's not just the hassle in getting there, there are other issues like the $100 per person sucharge when visiting national parks imposed by Trump.

U.S. tourism will lose up to $29 billion as visitors plummet amid Trump policies

While tourism is booming across the world, the U.S. is a notable loser this year as millions of visitors are choosing to travel elsewhere.

www.forbes.com.au

 

[Box Brownie]

I think the noticeable drop in overseas tourism proves people are already put off going to America, the new rules will make things even worse for their tourism industry. Trump has already cost them $30bn in lost revenue.

It's not just the hassle in getting there, there are other issues like the $100 per person sucharge when visiting national parks imposed by Trump.

U.S. tourism will lose up to $29 billion as visitors plummet amid Trump policies

While tourism is booming across the world, the U.S. is a notable loser this year as millions of visitors are choosing to travel elsewhere.

www.forbes.com.au

The old adage comes to mind.....

As in Trump knows the cost of everything (though his grasp of maths comes across as abysmal re: the 600% drop in pharmaceutical prices he promised) but the value of nothing.

The USA farmers IIRC are now receiving federal support for the losses due to cessation of sales to China...... So what next more tax dollars spent on the tourism industry to prop them up.

 

[JohnMcL7]

Like a lot of things, it will inconvenience honest people while giving the illusion of safety against "undesirables".

I've no idea how to do it, but I expect that in an afternoon I could set up some nicely aged social media accounts with help from Dr AI.

Meanwhile, there's a work conference in the US that would be very interesting but I have absolutely no desire to attend anything there and probably won't get a volunteer from the team because nobody will want to risk a visit. We'll wait for a European one.

That would likely count against you because it would either show you're hiding your real social media accounts or there are no proper social media accounts for them to check.

Reducing the number of people visiting the US likely benefits Trump and the MAGA movement because they have an isolated America only view so less exposure to those visiting from around the world will help enforce that.