Touchy subject

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Horse

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Kevin
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OK, so you have a female (or could be male) model in front of you and you are trying to get a 'pose' to look just right.

Trouble is you have difficulty in getting across your requirements to them.

How do we stand as far as touching them in order to get them into the right position is concerned? By this, I mean a gentle movement with the hand in order to say, lift the chin or move an arm just a slight is concerned. Also, what if they're semi nude or naked!

Presumably, this would not apply to children being as they would already have a chaperone present anyway.
 
Animate the pose yourself to show the model.
 
I've seen quite a few training videos from photographers shooting models, some in boudoir, nude or semi nude situations and the good ones never ever touch the model and also state that you should never touch the models and that's something I also strongly believe in ....... ive also seen some more amateur training videos and been completely creeped out by how much touching of the model by the photographer has gone on, there's no need for it imo.
 
First time I ever learnt to pose people the tutor said:

"Remember, if you're any good you won't ever need to touch".

Everybody wants to look like they are really good.
 
NigelPaul said:
Animate the pose yourself to show the model.
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I'd have to argree with above, it's what I do.
That said David Bailey once said to get the best from your models you must sleep with them, I suppose after that touching their arm isn't a problem ;)
 
i also have a "digital scrapbook" of some fav poses on my iphone to help explain it in some situations.
 
Quite often with amateur models it's necessary to move them into the right position because you either can't properly describe what you're after or because the girl has no idea what you're on about (almost the same thing 'cept she's at fault, not you).

I always ask:
"OK, do you mind if I just adjust your pose slightly here: your arm/leg/head/whatever isn't quite right"
Or:
"I just need to adjust your hair slightly, is that OK with you?"

As long as it's genuine and you're not trying to cop a pervy feel (and girls know the difference, believe me), you'll be fine.



One of the many benefits of working with the same model a few times is that you get relaxed with working together. She knows you're genuine and you know her strengths and weaknesses and pose her accordingly.
With one model I've worked with a few times, we've more or less given up trying to be coy and if she's not doing what I need, I just tickle her til she screams: she has a habit of pulling stupid faces at the wrong moment, or deliberately collapsing in a heap and pretending to fall asleep. She also calls me 'Daddy' (for all the wrong reasons) as she knows it makes me squirm with embarassment...
No option therefore but to beat her with a stick til she does as she's told. If I'm her 'daddy' then I'm Victorian Daddy and that's an end to it...

That sort of behaviour would definitely not be apporopriate if both parties were not fully comfortable with it, as it could easily leave me wide open to all manner of allegations.

Her boyfriend cheerfully tells me he just holds a pillow over her face til she passes out, in order to get some peace and quiet, but I think maybe he's exaggerating ever-so-slightly lol
 
Many thanks Rob.

Yes, I use this 'kind of' approach myself.
 
i get this a bit on weddings when photographing the bride alone or with the groom. Being a bloke, I might be a little more hands on with the groom and position him using his shoulders. With the bride I always try and demonstrate the pose first and if I am still not happy, I ask their permission to help them. Usually this is just with the positioning of the hands, so its a quick movement here and there and I'm done.
 
Many thanks guys.
I must admit that I do ask permission about touching but I still feel uncomfortable about it, especially in this day and age when everyone is encouraged to sue everyone else!
 
Don't touch! I am one and its really uncomfortable. Even if you ask first, because I always think "what happens if I say no?", its usually just camera clubs that start pawing at me.
 
punkuate said:
Don't touch! I am one and its really uncomfortable. Even if you ask first, because I always think "what happens if I say no?", its usually just camera clubs that start pawing at me.
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Damn straight.

The problem with "asking" is that the answer will always be yes. Whether it's OK or not.
 
From a slight tangent...

My wife is a yoga teacher and gets all her students to sign disclaimers which include a paragraph asking if it's ok for her to adjust the student. MOST of the time it's not necessary but sometimes a student can't grasp the concept of moving their left/right leg a bit to get the posture correct, so she (wife) has to step in and manually adjust them. Before any adjustment, she still asks, despite having the permission already in writing.
 
Thanks people.

I think Nod has helped this 'problem' in a different manner by using the word 'adjust'.

It gives a slighty different and less invasive term, although basically it's the same outcome!

Would more models prefer to be 'adjusted' than 'touched'? Although the former can sound somewhat painful!
 
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Some brides have never been infront of the camera like that and no matter how much you demonstrate or instruct they just dont get it. In my limited experience, if the couple have chosen me as their photographer, they trust me as a professional and my discrete approach usually helps reiterate my intentions. The reason why I am saying this, is because sometimes people just need a bit more help because they may never have been in that position before.
 
hsuffyan said:
Some brides have never been infront of the camera like that and no matter how much you demonstrate or instruct they just dont get it. In my limited experience, if the couple have chosen me as their photographer, they trust me as a professional and my discrete approach usually helps reiterate my intentions. The reason why I am saying this, is because sometimes people just need a bit more help because they may never have been in that position before.
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There is a big difference between a model and a bride, and I understand why some may feel the need to adjust a bride (IMHO there's never a reason to adjust a model) I still think you should be able without
 
boyfalldown said:
There is a big difference between a model and a bride, and I understand why some may feel the need to adjust a bride (IMHO there's never a reason to adjust a model) I still think you should be able without
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Yep, totally agree :thumbs:
 
punkuate said:
Don't touch! I am one and its really uncomfortable. Even if you ask first, because I always think "what happens if I say no?", its usually just camera clubs that start pawing at me.
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Not wishing to sound unkind but if it's that uncomfortable, maybe you're in the wrong line of work?

If the model - who I'm paying for, by the way - isn't getting the pose right then of course I'll 'relocate' her accordingly after asking permission first. :cuckoo:
 
Horse said:
Would more models prefer to be 'adjusted' than 'touched'? Although the former can sound somewhat painful!
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No.
 
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Arkady2 said:
Not wishing to sound unkind but if it's that uncomfortable, maybe you're in the wrong line of work?

If the model - who I'm paying for, by the way - isn't getting the pose right then of course I'll 'relocate' her accordingly after asking permission first. :cuckoo:
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If she isn't getting the pose right, youre paying for the wrong model.

I've been doing this for over a year, I'm more than capable of following instruction. If you can't direct properly maybe you're in the wrong profession.
 
punkuate said:
If she isn't getting the pose right, youre paying for the wrong model.

I've been doing this for over a year, I'm more than capable of following instruction. If you can't direct properly maybe you're in the wrong profession.
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You're just proving my point: your thin skin is showing, dear.

See my earlier post - sometimes inexperienced models just don't get it and even experienced models (and one year isn't that experienced in my book) don't always get it right.

Also some models are just plain thick. :D
 
Arkady2 said:
You're just proving my point: your thin skin is showing, dear.

See my earlier post - sometimes inexperienced models just don't get it and even experienced models (and one year isn't that experienced in my book) don't always get it right.

Also some models are just plain thick. :D
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NO WORDS.
 
I've found models don't have a problem with you moving hands, legs, and hair but if you touch their boobs they tend to get a bit annoyed :|
 
Its a fair question to ask and has been well answered. For me it is something to be avoided but sometimes can't be, especially with the odd stray hair or a bit of fluff on clothing that the model can't see. Experienced models will give you much less need for any contact and those without the experience give a much higher risk when contacting.

Donald
 
I was at a studio tuition night the other day with Clive Austen (Kaz Studios) and he said catagorically don't touch, and then with 4 sets demonstrated how you don't need to, by illustrating and asking what you want the model to do clearly. He also had a number of "targets" around the studio, so could just say look at the blue bike, raise your chin a smidge etc. We were shooting art nude and whenever he approached the set to adjust something he told the model to cover up. Learnt a lot that night, from a pro thats been doing it a long time.
 
It seems to me their is no right or wrong here, it may be just a matter of discretion and how well you get along with the model, but what is coming across to me is never touch the model without asking first, which is just common sense i guess :)


Arkady2 said:
Also some models are just plain thick. :D
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Damn you Rob, I'm still trying to get the coffee off my keyboard, subtle as a sledgehammer as usual :lol:

Incidentally what happened to Arkady1 I've obviously missed something over the last week or so.
 
Yes I too have learnt a lot from this.

There have been some good examples here as usual.

Although I have been doing this for over 40 years, I have mainly learnt from my mistakes. I am still learning, because I still make mistakes!

Many thanks.
 
TG. said:
It seems to me their is no right or wrong here, it may be just a matter of discretion and how well you get along with the model, but what is coming across to me is never touch the model without asking first, which is just common sense i guess :)




Damn you Rob, I'm still trying to get the coffee off my keyboard, subtle as a sledgehammer as usual :lol:

Incidentally what happened to Arkady1 I've obviously missed something over the last week or so.
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Long story: I'm writing this from under the floorboards as the Gestapo are after me...
 
Horse said:
OK, so you have a female (or could be male) model in front of you and you are trying to get a 'pose' to look just right.

Trouble is you have difficulty in getting across your requirements to them.

How do we stand as far as touching them in order to get them into the right position is concerned? By this, I mean a gentle movement with the hand in order to say, lift the chin or move an arm just a slight is concerned. Also, what if they're semi nude or naked!

Presumably, this would not apply to children being as they would already have a chaperone present anyway.
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Kevin, with a nickname of "Horse" I think the models have enough to be distressed about ;)
 
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