Total newbie conquered shutter speeds!

joyofanonymity said:
I'd like to say thank you to everyone who stuck up for me on that point there...I would never dream of taking business away from a pro - the standard is incomparable anyway.

It's much the same for many of the more creative and competitive industries; people do work for free to either get experience or to enhance the work they do.

Thanks for the support on this matter; last thing I want to do as a newbie on here is make enemies and I'm glad that there are so many people on here who are genuinely supportive of people; no matter what the reason they choose to photograph.

Thanks :D

(oh, and P.S. i'm a she :p)
x
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Enjoy what you do and don't take no notice of some of the comments. If it's something you enjoy doing and want to do your own photography then good on you, you obviously have some interest as you're posting on a photography forum and the only way to improve is to practise and read.

Good luck and if you're stuck, ask the questions, this is a great site with plenty of people who are very knowledgable.
 
Venomator said:


I don't think Karma is the one with the problem here... :suspect:


:naughty:
:p
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Oops, sorry didn't mean to slander anyone! Maybe "friendly nature" would have been more appropriate!

starkersclark said:
Don't take this the wrong way but I joined this forum to in order to improve my photography and hopefully one day actually make some money from it, some of the advice I've read and received has been invaluable but there seems to be a negative twist appearing more and more on here. So what if she didn't get paid, so what if the publication wants pictures for free - that's life and you should adapt with it.
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I agree about the reason for joining (well apart form making money). All I want to learn is how to get the most out of my photos, however reading the negative posts can be quite frustrating. Fair enough that the pros are worried about their livelihood, but is this the right place to express that. This whole thread has gone off topic (I know I'm as guilty for addign to that) but for now someone coming across this when searching for shutter speeds will have to read through a load of resentment to try and get any useful tips.

It certainly seems that the "pro" from wakefield who got sued (and rightly so) has brought the resentment to the forum.
 
hi there joyofanonymity well done , and keep the good work up
i think you should take your own photos for your reviews and good luck with your photography
 
starkersclark said:
...hopefully one day actually make some money from it...
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irony6.jpg
 
awp said:
Well I'm certainly a real pro photographer but my income is eroded year on year because publications that used to pay for pictures now accept free ones from amateurs - and seem to care less and less about quality!
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Awful comments, I take you have never been an amateur photographer?

If your income has eroded maybe you are charging too much. You could always re-train as something else, many people have too these days.

People like to take photographs and like people to look at those photographs Its your fault you chose this profession, if you can't stand the heat....
 
Can I make a suggestion (a bit tongue in cheek) that maybe there should be a sub section of TP for amateurs where pros only enter and offer advice if they're feeling brave enough?! It's a scary place entering the underworld of amateurs looking to make a bit of pocket money to fund their hobby!

Also, for any amateurs looking to go pro, read the brilliant thread from earlier this week asking pros if togging is still their hobby... it'll be enough to put you off for life!!
 
You don't need to justify yourself at all joyofanonymity. Your original post was spot on, its great when something just 'clicks' after trying to work it out for ages. Trust me I've been there and will be for some time to come!

I can't believe the negativity of some of the subsequent posts from forum members, absolutely ridiculous. A lovely way to welcome someone new to what I regard as one of the friendliest forums around.
 
Quaker said:
Awful comments, I take you have never been an amateur photographer?

If your income has eroded maybe you are charging too much. You could always re-train as something else, many people have too these days.

People like to take photographs and like people to look at those photographs Its your fault you chose this profession, if you can't stand the heat....
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I would say that is a fair response. I shoot for a living and my income has been hit by both the increase in the number of amateurs supplying to organisations etc for free and overall cut backs by the potential clients of the industry as a whole.

The bottom line is that times change, as do demands and markets. Good luck to any amateur who wants to make a bob or two or just have a go at getting published. Some will do ok, other will cock it up. Its an open industry and its all fair game. If some pro's are finding things difficult its a shame (and I did for a while) but pro's have to adapt just like in any other industry. Get on with it and survive or moan and die. Its a personal choice for everyone.

Some photographers will come along from time to time (like the recent high profile case of the wedding photographer that landed in Court) and it will get people screaming from the roof tops. It happens from time to time in many industries and its a shame but it is nothing new. The pendulum will always swing between a proliferation of inexperienced and cheap photographers having a go and the true pro's clawing back the market. But one thing that never helps anyone is moaning and being precious. The OP didn't ask for opinion on her decision to 'have a go.' Its up to her and her risk.

To the OP - Good luck with it.
 
nomorem6 said:
I would say that is a fair response. I shoot for a living and my income has been hit by both the increase in the number of amateurs supplying to organisations etc for free and overall cut backs by the potential clients of the industry as a whole.

The bottom line is that times change, as do demands and markets. Good luck to any amateur who wants to make a bob or two or just have a go at getting published. Some will do ok, other will cock it up. Its an open industry and its all fair game. If some pro's are finding things difficult its a shame (and I did for a while) but pro's have to adapt just like in any other industry. Get on with it and survive or moan and die. Its a personal choice for everyone.

Some photographers will come along from time to time (like the recent high profile case of the wedding photographer that landed in Court) and it will get people screaming from the roof tops. It happens from time to time in many industries and its a shame but it is nothing new. The pendulum will always swing between a proliferation of inexperienced and cheap photographers having a go and the true pro's clawing back the market. But one thing that never helps anyone is moaning and being precious. The OP asked for advice, not opinion on her decision to 'have a go.' Its up to her and her risk.

To the OP - Good luck with it.
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:agree:

:clap:
 
awp said:
Well I'm certainly a real pro photographer but my income is eroded year on year because publications that used to pay for pictures now accept free ones from amateurs - and seem to care less and less about quality!
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That's a bit like a taxi driver moaning about loss of business because people give their friends and family lifts in their own car.

Unfortunately, with regard to the point you made, that is hard luck. A business works on supply and demand. If there is no demand for what you supply then you have to do something else.

No one has a job (or business) for life any more.


Steve.
 
There is a definite air of arrogance to the forum these days and its sad really what with certain Pro's taking the mick out of people on minimum wage, bragging how much they earn others ripping into people who are trying to learn because they fear for their livelihood. Its all a bit wrong to me. Why can't they accept that you don't have to be a pro to take photographs and enjoy doing it. You don't have to be a pro to get the odd photo published. Some folk need a reality check.
 
Quaker said:
There is a definite air of arrogance to the forum these days and its sad really what with certain Pro's taking the mick out of people on minimum wage, bragging how much they earn others ripping into people who are trying to learn because they fear for their livelihood. Its all a bit wrong to me. Why can't they accept that you don't have to be a pro to take photographs and enjoy doing it. You don't have to be a pro to get the odd photo published. Some folk need a reality check.
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:clap:
 
Murph said:
You don't need to justify yourself at all joyofanonymity. Your original post was spot on, its great when something just 'clicks' after trying to work it out for ages. Trust me I've been there and will be for some time to come!

I can't believe the negativity of some of the subsequent posts from forum members, absolutely ridiculous. A lovely way to welcome someone new to what I regard as one of the friendliest forums around.
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Thank you - I agree that almost everyone on these forums here has been amazing - to the point where I love coming on here and know i'll get some great advice, feedback or just chat :clap: I was a bit taken aback as a result at awp's comment so thanks again for seeing my side.

nomorem6 said:
To the OP - Good luck with it.
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Thank you :)

Quaker said:
There is a definite air of arrogance to the forum these days and its sad really what with certain Pro's taking the mick out of people on minimum wage, bragging how much they earn others ripping into people who are trying to learn because they fear for their livelihood. Its all a bit wrong to me. Why can't they accept that you don't have to be a pro to take photographs and enjoy doing it. You don't have to be a pro to get the odd photo published. Some folk need a reality check.
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Good point well made...:)
 
Good Luck joyofanonymity

take more photos and write less, after all a picture is worth a thousand words :)
 
joyofanonymity said:
And the only reason the pictures get published is that the site wants the reader to be able to get some insight into what it was like to be at the gig - and a review without pictures can often be a bit 'dry'.
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I would like to propose an example. LOL
 
Clare,

I'm glad to see you've taken some of the, shall we say, less than helpful comments with a pinch of salt. Please don't be put off by some of the negativity that's been shown in this thread. We're a great bunch here and 99.9% of us are more than willing to offer help and advice on any area of photography, regardless of your level of experience :)

Anything you want to know, just ask :) :welcome:
 
awp said:
No offence - but these are the sort of replies I'd expect from amateur photographers who don't rely on their photography to make a living. :bang:
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Maybe time to lift the standard then, methinks...

I am one of those serious hobbyists who are clawing into the field to make a living out of it.

As I cannot ban anyone who has less skills than I have, the very obvious option is simply then to lift the standard of my work and everyone who does this will have jobs.

So why does this make a "pro" feel threatened?
 
Grendel said:
Clare,

I'm glad to see you've taken some of the, shall we say, less than helpful comments with a pinch of salt. Please don't be put off by some of the negativity that's been shown in this thread. We're a great bunch here and 99.9% of us are more than willing to offer help and advice on any area of photography, regardless of your level of experience :)

Anything you want to know, just ask :) :welcome:
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Thanks for the welcome Grendel. The responses from everyone else on this thread has been so positive so it's good to know there's a great support network to learn with on here...
 
I can see both sides on this, got the t-shirt. It's all too easy to think how cool it is to have a few photos published in magazines and get carried away with that without any thought to the concequences to anyone else but you don't realise at the time that it could impact you. As you get better, you learn from this board, other places and your experience and the quality of your work improves you start to think that actually what you're doing does have some worth. You stop and think that the magazines and websites that your are giving your work to for free are making money or they wouldn't be doing it (or they go under). So you think want a slice of the action, then you look over your sholder and there are lots of other photographers two steps behind you who haven't got to that point in the curve yet so the magazines not about to start paying you when they can use them for free. Result, poorer quality of photos (I look back and cringe) and dead end careers. I'm lucky that I have a good day job and I could persevere through this and do make money from magazines now, as when you make a further step change in quality your work really does start to have value, but not enough to live on. If I hadn't given away work for free/low rates when I started and devalued photography like I did, would it be my main job now? Would I want it to be? Who knows. I do know it's not black and white and I can understand why people get excited about it. I still do give some work away for free, for charities, car clubs that I support and let's face it the internet, because part of the motivation for me is sharing my work and seeing the reaction it gets. I guess all forms of media are having these dilemas right now, there are pleny of writers who will work for free too, it will be interesting to see how it pans out and if a new business model is formed. Maybe creative skills will just become things people do for free.
 
You go girl!!!

BTW, I have recently upped my prices drastically and suddenly I am getting more jobs than ever:D






P.S.

I am privileged to have a local pro as a friend, a very good friend and mentor. he has been in the business for over 30 years and has always shared all his secrets without reserve. The town we live in is a rather blue collar orientated industrial town and that alone should say something...
 
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