Too cold to work

Beav

Beav

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Hello. This may sound silly but im a little confused. The heating at work has been broke for 2 weeks now and where I work they take forever to get things sorted. The lift has been broke since it was opened (it was a different company before) and this is still not fixed and we have to work deliveries and stock up and down stairs. Im pretty sure it is against health and safety to do this. The heating packed up two weeks ago and it is still not sorted. Also the male toilets have also broke and we have to use the female ones. These were broken over 6 months ago now and nothing has been done.

Im pretty sure I have the right to refuse to go in to work as it is way below 13oC in the warehouse and not much warmer on the shop floor. Im just a little annoyed that they take so long to get things sorted.

This job was a job I had when I was studying my btec national in IT but with the lack of IT jobs available im stilling working there. (also applying for other places). The thing is I don't get over 16 hours a week so im on job seekers allowance so if I lost my job it wouldnt even effect how much I earn't because my JSA would go up (not if I voluntarily left though).

What are your views? Yes it is a rubbish company (a big company) but a rubbish reputation where I live.
 
You're kidding? There are tonnes of junior IT jobs down here, where in the country are you?

I don't think there is a lower legal temperature limit, only a high limit.

It's not against health and safety to lift up and down stairs as long as you've been shown how to lift correctly.
 
neil_g said:
You're kidding? There are tonnes of junior IT jobs down here, where in the country are you?

I don't think there is a lower legal temperature limit, only a high limit.

It's not against health and safety to lift up and down stairs as long as you've been shown how to lift correctly.
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Ahhh ok. A fair few of us has slipped before now working boxes up and down. There is a limit on how low it says 13oC sometimes 16oC depending on where your working.

EDIT: Im from the West Midlands. I have applied for 2 IT jobs, just waiting to hear back.
 
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There is a legal minimum temp for offices, warehouses etc AFAIK have no minimums. As for moving things up and down stairs has there been a risk assessment done? If not then why are you doing it? If there has what does it say?

As for toilets again depends on what the building is classed at and the number of people working there as to whether they have to provide separate toilets.
 
Beav said:
Ahhh ok. A fair few of us has slipped before now working boxes up and down. There is a limit on how low it says 13oC sometimes 16oC depending on where your working.
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Ah looks like they changed it recently, never used to be a low limit.

I'd speak to your company H&S person as a first point of call. Or HR.
 
munch said:
There is a legal minimum temp for offices, warehouses etc AFAIK have no minimums. As for moving things up and down stairs has there been a risk assessment done? If not then why are you doing it? If there has what does it say?

As for toilets again depends on what the building is classed at and the number of people working there as to whether they have to provide separate toilets.
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To be honest im not even sure if a risk assessment has been done. :/
 
munch said:
There is a legal minimum temp for offices, warehouses etc AFAIK have no minimums. As for moving things up and down stairs has there been a risk assessment done? If not then why are you doing it? If there has what does it say?

As for toilets again depends on what the building is classed at and the number of people working there as to whether they have to provide separate toilets.
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I don't think you need a risk assessment if you are classed as competent. Or something like that. Was told that recently when I asked if I needed an assessment to use a ladder.
 
neil_g said:
I don't think you need a risk assessment if you are classed as competent. Or something like that. Was told that recently when I asked if I needed an assessment to use a ladder.
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Well I had a temp contract at a big supermarket and they were hot on there health and safety I had all the training etc but nothing at this other job I have had for a while. Its hard to explain but its like a cheap shop I work in now but its not a small store. (can't really mention names here)
 
There's used to be a lower temp but not an upper temp - it has also always included warehouses/factories - it's from the Factories Act of 1961 (Section 3(2)) and it was 16 C after the first hour.

Since the HSE and various other acts (some time in the early to mid 90s) have come into effect it has now been superseded by 'thermal comfort' which gets based on the opinions of 80% of the workforce - 16 C and 13 C (for active work) is still in the guidelines however it acknowledges that there are more factors than just the air temperature.

The latest guidelines state that 80% of the workforce being comfortable is 'reasonable' - so if more than 20% of staff are uncomfortable you can look into your options around not working or moving to a warmer area or even reporting your employer to the HSE.

for more reading see http://www.hse.gov.uk/temperature/thermal/index.htm
and http://www.hse.gov.uk/temperature/thermal/workers.htm
 
Contact your union for advice, they not only will know the law but the best way to go about getting the problem fixed.
 
Uneducated_Rick said:
There's used to be a lower temp but not an upper temp - it has also always included warehouses/factories - it's from the Factories Act of 1961 (Section 3(2)) and it was 16 C after the first hour.

Since the HSE and various other acts (some time in the early to mid 90s) have come into effect it has now been superseded by 'thermal comfort' which gets based on the opinions of 80% of the workforce - 16 C and 13 C (for active work) is still in the guidelines however it acknowledges that there are more factors than just the air temperature.

The latest guidelines state that 80% of the workforce being comfortable is 'reasonable' - so if more than 20% of staff are uncomfortable you can look into your options around not working or moving to a warmer area or even reporting your employer to the HSE.

for more reading see http://www.hse.gov.uk/temperature/thermal/index.htm
and http://www.hse.gov.uk/temperature/thermal/workers.htm
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May well have been just an agreement within our factory but if temerature got upto a certain level we were provided with cold drinks. Now we have bottled water dispensers all year round. As far as lower temperatures, we are supplied with dayglo coats and jackets. I find them too warm and end up taking mine off again.
 
nilagin said:
May well have been just an agreement within our factory but if temerature got upto a certain level we were provided with cold drinks. Now we have bottled water dispensers all year round. As far as lower temperatures, we are supplied with dayglo coats and jackets. I find them too warm and end up taking mine off again.
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Big mistake, you weren't supplied with these to just keep you warm, it is so that the rescuers can find you when you collapse from hypothermia;)
 
andy700 said:
Big mistake, you weren't supplied with these to just keep you warm, it is so that the rescuers can find you when you collapse from hypothermia;)
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Made me laugh out loud at this comment !
 
neil_g said:
Ah looks like they changed it recently, never used to be a low limit.

I'd speak to your company H&S person as a first point of call. Or HR.
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I think this was still the case about 2004. We had aircon stop working in the call centre, during a very hot july august and i remember checking then what the requirements were.

EDIT,
my post is confusing! what i meant - there wasnt a max temperature in 2004, just a minimum.
 
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I work as a carpenter doing loft conversions. We carry most things up a ladder. We have no such thing as a risk assessment. We just get on with it. If we are too cold we put another jumper on. We don't have HR to contact. We just get on with it. We don't have a lift. We don't have a hoist. We just get on with it. We don't have a union and we certainly don't need one to sort our problems out. We just get on with it. With the wind today it was bitterly cold. We don't just stop and moan about it. We just get on with it.
I may be one of the old breed, but i am concerned who is going to take over when i give it all up, and don't talk to me about health and safety. Carrying goods up and down stairs in this weather would be a luxury. Just get on with it.
 
You get a ladder? ... Softee :D
 
dekeyboy said:
...I may be one of the old breed, but i am concerned who is going to take over when i give it all up, and don't talk to me about health and safety. Carrying goods up and down stairs in this weather would be a luxury. Just get on with it.
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And they used to put kids down the mines *** they were smaller and could mine in small places.... Lets not bother with progression *** "we've always done it like that" and "it never did me any harm" :bonk:


Anyhoo - The matters you raise will either fall under the auspices of your local Environment Health department or the Health and Safety Executive. It is the law for there to be poster within your workplace detailing who has responsibility for health and safety for your building. It is a A2 size grey one and should be displayed along with the Health & Safety statement from your management. If you can't find this poster, please give HSE a ring or you can phone your local council and ask to talk with one of the H&S Environmental Health Officers or Technicians. They will give you definitive advice on what you can expect from your employer and what MUST be provided by your employer.
 
I think that only applies if you have a minimum ammount of workers. It is just the two of us doing the carpentry. We are self employed. That is why we just get on with it.
 
Get a job outdoors like a Postman or Binman, then you will soon learn what cold weather is.
 
gus607 said:
Get a job outdoors like a Postman or Binman, then you will soon learn what cold weather is.
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When the heating fails in a press shop and you are surrounded by thousands of tonnes of cold cast iron, it's usually warmer outside.
 
dekeyboy said:
I work as a carpenter doing loft conversions. We carry most things up a ladder. We have no such thing as a risk assessment. We just get on with it.
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Until such time as someone falls and gets injured, then the plague of locusts called HSE will descend upon your management (or you if you are the supervisor).

Similar reason why Sky will instantly sack their installers if they catch one up a ladder without safety equipment and the ladder drilled and bolted to the wall of the house they are installing at.
 
dekeyboy said:
I work as a carpenter doing loft conversions. We carry most things up a ladder. We have no such thing as a risk assessment. We just get on with it. If we are too cold we put another jumper on. We don't have HR to contact. We just get on with it. We don't have a lift. We don't have a hoist. We just get on with it. We don't have a union and we certainly don't need one to sort our problems out. We just get on with it. With the wind today it was bitterly cold. We don't just stop and moan about it. We just get on with it.
I may be one of the old breed, but i am concerned who is going to take over when i give it all up, and don't talk to me about health and safety. Carrying goods up and down stairs in this weather would be a luxury. Just get on with it.
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next thing, you'll be telling me you sleep 8 nights a week in a pothole getting up 2 hours before you go to bed....... :lol::lol:

Seriously I also take your attitude to H&S............ but my employer doesn't...

Do I know how to "safely" use a kettle........ erm yes.. but if "you" want to show me and then play H&S bingo....... I think , you filled it up from a tank fed tap, not a mains feed.... (and that's before we get to plug the bloody thing in!)

"Your move!"
 
tank fed tap is okay for hot drinks because you're going to boil it anyway :p
 
I think some of you should take a look around at the construction industry. Not just large projects but the small one's as well. The things some of you mention just cannot be adhered to. Have a look at all the programmes on tv where they are repairing, renovating and even building extensions. You will always see someone climbing a ladder carrying something. Sometimes it is the only way.
 
Lynton said:
Do I know how to "safely" use a kettle........ erm yes.. but if "you" want to show me and then play H&S bingo....... I think , you filled it up from a tank fed tap, not a mains feed.... (and that's before we get to plug the bloody thing in!)
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:lol:

Before they would let me leave hospital after my brane op, I had to show them I could do 2 things - firstly, I had to show the OT lady I could shower myself (she's the only person to have seen me in all my glory for about 30 years [apart from my wife]!) and secondly, I had to make myself a cup of coffee. It had been several years since I'd made a mug of instant coffee but I managed, even in a strange kitchen! The very nice girl even showed me where everything was (which I thought should have been part of the challenge!). Scarily, they get people who fail the test - the best ones (not a unique failure!) are the ones who unplug the kettle, fill it to the brim, put it on the hob and turn the gas on...
 
Nod said:
firstly, I had to show the OT lady I could shower myself (she's the only person to have seen me in all my glory for about 30 years [apart from my wife]!)
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Come on ... you didn't fall for that one? :D
 
No, and I didn't rise either!
 
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