Tog wanted - Ministry of Sound, Feb 11th - UNPAID

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steveOooo said:
so a unexperienced tog should get paid?
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In a word...YES.

If you're getting a service provided from someone who has invested their time and money into it, and the club is charging entry to punters, DJs are getting paid, people are getting their profiles enhanced from the photos being taken...then you should be paying.

Put it this way, if anyone (not even you) stands to gain from these photos, then they are a service that should be paid for.

If you don't then really, you get what you pay for.
 
steveOooo said:
Yes your right - im only using a £2k hd broadcast camera, with a tv presenter who has presented on ABC Australia, possible interviews with djs + most of the night they can take as many pics as they like of the clubbers etc..

It has nothing to offer, no experience for anyone.. i wont even turn the camera on as i wont be working, just posing.
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Interesting. What's the hd broadcast camera? One of the small panasonics or jvc's?
Only asking as we use them and the decent ones are significantly more than that, £15-20k plus.. Just wondering if we are missing a trick.
 
if people want to do it for free they can, the guy has posted the oppertunity is unpaid so why are people getting on the guys case.
 
Byker28i said:
Interesting. What's the hd broadcast camera? One of the small panasonics or jvc's?
Only asking as we use them and the decent ones are significantly more than that, £15-20k plus.. Just wondering if we are missing a trick.
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lol JVC - not a fan of pannys, well, not a fan of cmos sensors due to rolling shutter.

im using a z1

WHy you paying 15k? a sony ex3 is 5/6k?

A nx5 is £3.5-4k which is pretty decent, though avchd

your using a small camcorder? for what? nightclubs? for me priority was with low light - so used a pd150 (1.5lux) but have to really move to hd - got a canon 7d but the rolling shutter / light banding, skew, restriction in shot angles etc.. major disadvantage - espech when strobing / flashing lights appear - so stick with global sensor for that - but man the z1 is a tank!
 
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NigelPaul said:
SteveOooo found a gig here which may be up your street,
http://ipswich.gumtree.com/ipswich/64/73559264.html
Happens to Vidtog's as well as still toggers ;)
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BAHAHAHAH

- CV SENT!

Yes -

media = this

Essentially people just assume cos equipment is cheap, they dont have to pay - but your paying for experience, someones time effort to create something.

Ive had alot of 'we havent got a budget' its unpaid etc... - why should i care? im not a charity - whilst studying media etc.. just leaving uni i have done a fair amount of unpaid work experience - its what you can do to gain extra credentials, once youve say got the experience in one field, you can then get paid work in that. but in the case of nightclub stuff, theres not much money involved / hardly worth bothering with i think 'u groove tv' is the quality low paying club promters want -
http://www.vimeo.com/3689717

some bloke in club with mini dv sd camcorder - ive got their price list and they want £200 for this !
 
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POAH said:
if people want to do it for free they can, the guy has posted the oppertunity is unpaid so why are people getting on the guys case.
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Exactly! yes i should pay, but m not getting paid, and im not really that bothered on the quality etc...

Youll always find someone cheaper or for free - probably be crap but hey. Ive worked for free / work exp before - sometimes u need to do unpaid stuff to get on
 
steveOooo said:
lol JVC - not a fan of pannys, well, not a fan of cmos sensors due to rolling shutter.

im using a z1

WHy you paying 15k? a sony ex3 is 5/6k?

A nx5 is £3.5-4k which is pretty decent, though avchd

your using a small camcorder? for what? nightclubs? for me priority was with low light - so used a pd150 (1.5lux) but have to really move to hd - got a canon 7d but the rolling shutter / light banding, skew, restriction in shot angles etc.. major disadvantage - espech when strobing / flashing lights appear - so stick with global sensor for that - but man the z1 is a tank!
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Ah. I was talking broadcast. Sony xdcams are £25k, the panasonic wally 3d camera is fun but still £15k. We do have a couple of smaller cameras but I think last time we used them I rigged one to a caterham :). Lightings generally not an issue.

Nightclubs with a big camera can't be fun.
 
mastertrinity said:
In a way you're no better than the client you're working for.

Just because they don't want to pay you doesn't mean that you have to get a photographers services for free. If you want a photographer then you have to pay for it and not be selfish. If you get pictures of yourself filming then you are promoting your brand and so while you can get future work for the night club the photographer won't.

A bit hypocritical if you ask me.
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Totally agree. Bonkers idea! :cuckoo:
 
POAH said:
if people want to do it for free they can, the guy has posted the oppertunity is unpaid so why are people getting on the guys case.
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It might be something to do with some of his other posts on TP...

Like this one:

yeah i was thinking it would be good purely to make contacts who do COUGH UP! but ive been told from TL hq to 'take a copy of your photo id, and ill give you everything to get started with' so will they provide camera/speedlite? do i get contact cards? Just if im working for free, would prefer if working near drunkards, that its there camera that gets funked not mine!

Or how about this one:

YES kelly ashton, do u know what the meeting will be like? heres the cards... hope you dont get mugged on the way to the club btw.. BYE! thanks mr exploited photographer!

tbh, working for free ive done that, cleaned the t-shirt, im starting to wonder what exactly the positives are in doing this... ? any positives

:thinking:
 
lol

time too hands on their much

so what have those posts 2 years ago got to do with me posting an opportunity for someone to take photos at ministry of sound, london, one of the biggest, best know clubs on the planet? have u not heard of work experience? or did you just saunter straight into paid work - have u dont unpaid work hepburn?

yes exploited, well yes. But again, im not forcing someone to take pics for free am I !
 
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steveOooo said:
perhaps the tog will get future work from it? can you predict the future then?
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Unfortunately I'm unable to predict the future, but if (as has been said) the big boys like MOS don't want to pay, what future is there? It's not a wedding gig where you can learn from a pro. There's no-one to learn from, only the experience of getting into the club. I can do that anywhere on any given Saturday night.
Would you be willing to provide a free video service with little chance of getting anything out of it? Probably not. :shrug:
It looks like a new business looking for some free advertising images to me sorry. :shrug: Nothing personal.
 
steveOooo said:
BAHAHAHAH

- CV SENT!

Yes -

media = this

Essentially people just assume cos equipment is cheap, they dont have to pay - but your paying for experience, someones time effort to create something.

Ive had alot of 'we havent got a budget' its unpaid etc... - why should i care? im not a charity - whilst studying media etc.. just leaving uni i have done a fair amount of unpaid work experience - its what you can do to gain extra credentials, once youve say got the experience in one field, you can then get paid work in that. but in the case of nightclub stuff, theres not much money involved / hardly worth bothering with i think 'u groove tv' is the quality low paying club promters want -
http://www.vimeo.com/3689717

some bloke in club with mini dv sd camcorder - ive got their price list and they want £200 for this !
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Yet you want someone to work for you for nothing.
 
steveOooo said:
lol

time too hands on their much

so what have those posts 2 years ago got to do with me posting an opportunity for someone to take photos at ministry of sound, london, one of the biggest, best know clubs on the planet? have u not heard of work experience? or did you just saunter straight into paid work - have u dont unpaid work hepburn?
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Well let's see... 19 months (not 2 years) ago you were against working for free and wanting others to supply you with the equipment so in the event of mishaps with drunks it was their equipment that got damaged, not yours. And erm... Now you're here asking for someone to come and work for you for free using their equipment! Hmm... And you don't think there's a correlation with your posts then and now? :cuckoo:

And for the record I have worked for free, and I still do. It's called voluntary and charitable work, as well as helping people who I see potential in and who are OFFERED my help and expertise, not those who come here and post a somewhat hypocritical thread asking for it.

At the end of the day Steve it's down to you and whoever is daft enough to work for you. If it works for you both then great, but you tend to reap what you sow. The best advice I was ever given, and it's worth passing along, is it's a lot harder to start out cheap and push your prices up. Once you have that reputation for being a free/cheap photographer you'll find it hard to shift.

Good luck with the event regardless... :)
 
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wippers said:
Unfortunately I'm unable to predict the future, but if (as has been said) the big boys like MOS don't want to pay, what future is there? It's not a wedding gig where you can learn from a pro. There's no-one to learn from, only the experience of getting into the club. I can do that anywhere on any given Saturday night.
Would you be willing to provide a free video service with little chance of getting anything out of it? Probably not. :shrug:
It looks like a new business looking for some free advertising images to me sorry. :shrug: Nothing personal.
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With 2000 people? 20 year old club know world wide?

Ive done videos for free yes - for experience. Actually weddings would be something id consider doing for free / expenses.
Its a sort of new business - a new dj studio with tv section.
Still images are far down the pecking order - the video is the most important part.
 
hepburn said:
Well let's see... 19 months (not 2 years) ago you were against working for free and wanting others to supply you with the equipment so in the event of mishaps with drunks it was their equipment that got damaged, not yours. And erm... Now you're here asking for someone to come and work for you for free using their equipment! Hmm... And you don't think there's a correlation with your posts then and now? :cuckoo:

And for the record I have worked for free, and I still do. It's called voluntary and charitable work, as well as helping people who I see potential in and who are OFFERED my help and expertise, not those who come here and post a somewhat hypocritical thread asking for it.

At the end of the day Steve it's down to you and whoever is daft enough to work for you. If it's works for you both then great, but you tend to reap what you sow. The best advice I was ever given, and it's worth passing along, is it's a lot harder to start out cheap and push your prices up. Once you have that reputation for being a free/cheap photographer you'll find it hard to shift.

Good luck with the event regardless... :)
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thanks,

cant really be bothered to respond to rest. Ive personally increased my rates the more work ive done

daft enough to work with me?

also, tilllate gets its togs under a 'volunteer' bases - i hardly call them a decent charity / cause!
 
I comment on this thread as someone who used to dj as a guest at mos. I used to earn a little more than my train fair home to Liverpool. Believe me no dj will work for nothing cause the music costs too much. When your buying White label discs and your paying £100 for one record you need good money even if your on mailing lists.
 
I intend to shoot for free atm in my genre of photography, or at least TFCD. I will require an assistant on some shoots. Will I want to pay them? No! I will however let them take some shots, and guide them and pass on my knowledge, explain things to them as I go, review the shots with them, check the histogram with them, tell them why they work or not work etc. I do believe that the person who helps for free should at least get something useful for their time and help.
 
A lot of the known tunes are cheap and can be done via mp3 or cd ect. But to get a new unknown tune they cost. White label pressings are very rare and are only made in numbers of a few hundred. There is also a limited time wise allowing the tune to be used by the dj before general release.

Also 12" singles are becoming more popular again for djs. Or I should say proper djs not tech djs where the technology does the work.
 
steveOooo said:
I'm nt a dj

The post irefered to, he appeared to state he paid £10 for a White label - indicating vinyl purchase
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That's my point. How can you film, photograph or construct a broadcast item about a subject that you don't understand?

You mentioned experience didn't you?
 
DemiLion said:
That's my point. How can you film, photograph or construct a broadcast item about a subject that you don't understand?

You mentioned experience didn't you?
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Well I've filmed at pacha London, ministry of sound and Ibiza so I
Must be doing something right.
 
hepburn said:
Why am I not surprised by that comment :shrug:
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** just repeating the same smug dull stuff.

Can't believe the flag for offering someone to take pics in a nightclub... The smug knowitall forums! Lol
 
steveOooo said:
Well I've filmed at pacha London, ministry of sound and Ibiza so I
Must be doing something right.
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And yet you seemingly haven't bothered to keep your eyes and ears open or bothered to learn about your chosen subject matter.
 
steveOooo said:
Can't believe the flag for offering someone to take pics in a nightclub... The smug knowitall forums! Lol
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Well from this "smug knowitall" shouldn't that be flack, not flag?

And on that note, given you have a mug someone to work for free and you can't be bothered replying to some posts, i'm wondering why this thread hasn't been closed by a mod :thinking:. It seems to have run its course...
 
DemiLion said:
And yet you seemingly haven't bothered to keep your eyes and ears open or bothered to learn about your chosen subject matter.
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Tbf u haven't a clue what research etc vie done.

If u film a violinist do u need to learn violin?

Have u even been to a nightclub? Uts not arthouse video prod. Just some guy playing other ppls records.
:gag:
 
hepburn said:
Well from this "smug knowitall" shouldn't that be flack, not flag?

And on that note, given you have a mug someone to work for free and you can't be bothered replying to some posts, i'm wondering why this thread hasn't been closed by a mod :thinking:. It seems to have run its course...
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It is pretty tedious- yes typing on iPhone I was waiting for the 'uve
Spelt something wring comment.

Yes mug, from ** perspective. At the age of 22 if someone offered me free entry, acres to world famous djs etc u would have
Jumped at the chance.
 
steveOooo said:
It is pretty tedious- yes typing on iPhone I was waiting for the 'uve
Spelt something wring comment.
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If I was going to pick you up on your awful spelling I'd have done it way back, but I didn't. What I pointed out was just you not knowing the right word to use.
 
steveOooo said:
Tbf u haven't a clue what research etc vie done.

If u film a violinist do u need to learn violin?

Have u even been to a nightclub? Uts not arthouse video prod. Just some guy playing other ppls records.
:gag:
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Firstly it's fairly easy to see what your level of knowledge is if only by your reaction to the idea that DJ's still use vinyl; some of them spend fortunes sourcing original material to use.

Secondly if you tell a proper DJ (as opposed to a track changer) that all he does is play other people's music then you are liable to have a rather painful experience.

Thirdly I first went to the MoS before they started selling booze, I've got a few friends who are on the circuit including the Islands, I've been a live and radio DJ, a roadie and an organiser.

Fourthly if I was interviewing/filming/photographing a violinist, I would make bloody certain that I knew the difference between a violin, a viola and a 'cello.
 
This is the 2nd thread that I know of this week where we have a younger person (i.e. teenager/early twenties) who knows better than everyone else, cos' us older and wiser are just boring old farts. I can remember being like that back in the late 70's early 80's.

Now he has had some good advice, but his way is best. Let's leave him to it and let him find out for himself. Good luck to him and the person who shoots for him from a Gumtree ad (?) perhaps?

Much Love,
Terry Tibbs.
 
People think I'm mad cos I'm a Phone/Face-Jacker fan, nice to know another! :thumbs:
 
steveOooo said:
It is pretty tedious- yes typing on iPhone I was waiting for the 'uve
Spelt something wring comment.

Yes mug, from ** perspective. At the age of 22 if someone offered me free entry, acres to world famous djs etc u would have
Jumped at the chance.
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What the one from ABC Australia yeu mean?
Yes I would book your photographer counselling, not sure if the club would be the reason they need it though. :)
 
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